Ep #82: Asking Questions and Always Learning with Rho Thomas

Hi, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills, episode 82.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey, Coach, today you’re in for such a treat. I have the most amazing Rho Thomas on the podcast today. And some of you have sometimes send me feedback that says you love my voice, you think it’s calm and soothing. And just wait until you hear Rho’s. She has one of the most beautiful voices, I didn’t tell her I was going to say this in the intro. But I just have to say it because I couldn’t stop thinking it when we were doing our interview.

Rho is a coach for lawyers, a money coach for lawyers and she is crazy smart. We have such a good time, we talk about coaching, and lawyers, and kids, and being a mom, and just pretty much cover a lot, a lot of ground.

And we also talk about why you should join Coaching Masters. Rho was very outspoken that we needed to talk about that today, so that is what we did. So if you are wondering if it is for you, I think that today’s episode could help clear that up a little bit. And I hope you enjoy.

Lindsay: Hello, hello, I am so happy to be here with you today. Can you introduce yourself and tell everyone just kind of who you are and what you do?

Rho: Yes, well, thank you for having me. My name is Rho Thomas. I am a lawyer money coach and I am a graduate of the Coaching Masters Mastermind.

Lindsay: Yes, you are. And you’re a coach in the Coach Lab on occasion.

Rho: And I’m a coach in the Coach lab.

Lindsay: Can’t leave that out. And we could just actually start with that. I don’t think that I’ve ever, I don’t know that I’ve told you this. But one of the reasons that I kind of asked you to be a coach in the Coach Lab is one of my favorite things about you and your coaching is the way you ask questions and how simple, and clear, and just like straight to the point they are. Especially in the community on the page. Is that something that you have, like really had to work on? Or does that just come natural to you?

Rho: Well, thank you for that, first of all. I think it’s kind of a mix of both because I am a lawyer by training and we are very like let me get all the things and make sure that I’m very thorough and all of that. And so I think that there has been some work around the way that I ask questions, especially with the work that we’ve done together and with being in coaching communities and seeing what’s effective.

But I also am just a curious person and it’s like, oh, let me just ask this question. So I think it’s kind of a mix of the two.

Lindsay: Yes, I love it. It’s one of my favorite things when you have coached for me a couple of times and I’ll come and look in the community on the page and I’m like, that is the exact question I would have asked. And I just, like I get so excited. So anyway, that was a little aside because I don’t think I ever really told you that. But that is definitely one of your superpowers.

Tell me a little bit, so I don’t really know this about you, I know that you were a lawyer. But I don’t really know, I don’t think, how you got into coaching. How did that kind of come about for you?

Rho: Yeah, so I got into coaching through my personal story. So as I mentioned, I am a money coach. Back in 2016, the end of 2016 I had my first child and at the time I was still practicing law. And my firm offered this benefit where you could do a percentage of, in law we have billable hours. So you have to bill so many hours that can go out to a client.

So I could be responsible for a percentage of the billable hours for the corresponding percentage of my salary. So 80% of the hours requirement for 80% of my salary. I was like, oh, that seems interesting, let me look into that. I looked at my finances and I was like, oh, absolutely not because my husband and I had over $670,000 of debt and a negative $342,000 net worth. And so we couldn’t afford to take that pay cut.

And so we started researching and figuring out our plan for what we were going to do with our finances to get them on track because to that point we thought we had been doing what we were supposed to do.

You know, we were paying our bills on time, we were saving a little bit, maxing out our 401k, all of that. But we weren’t really paying attention and so beyond that the money was going to restaurants and all of the different things that your money goes to that you’re not paying attention to.

And so in our research and formulating our plan and all of that I started a blog at the beginning of 2018 just sharing our story, sharing our journey out of debt, and started actually having the opportunity to coach friends from law school and colleagues at work and things like that because they were like, “How are you doing this?” And so I was like, “Oh, I can show you.” And so I started helping people with their money.

The issue though, Lindsay, was I saw with some people they were like, “Oh yeah, this is great.” And they went on about their lives and did it. And then other people were coming back with the same things over and over. So I knew that there was something there that was missing, but I didn’t know how to address it. And so that’s kind of what got me into coaching beyond just strategy.

Lindsay: Right. Yeah, because they maybe improved their money a little bit, but left with the same mind, right? Making the same decision, is that what you mean?

Rho: Exactly. Yes, exactly.

Lindsay: I love that. And so then you found coaching and kind of started adding it into the money, into the processes. Do you still use, as part of your coaching, part of that strategy and process of debt, you know, whatever, whatever it is that you do, I don’t even know?

Rho: Yeah, so part of it is definitely still the strategy piece because some people just don’t know how to create a budget or how to analyze their finances to make the best decisions for themselves and that kind of thing. But a big part of it is that mindset piece of helping them to change the way they think about themselves, the way they think about their money, you know, how they make decisions, trusting themselves, all of that.

And so coupling those two together, clients are seeing lasting change and they’re not coming back with the same thing. So it’s like, okay, we got this. This is working.

Lindsay: Yeah, I love that. And how do you work with your clients, I mean, I think I know the answer to this, but just for everyone else. How do you work with clients now? Do you work with them mostly one on one? Or do you have like a group or program?

Rho: I’m completely one on one right now.

Lindsay: And you work with lawyers?

Rho: I work with lawyers. I do have some clients outside of the law because other similar professionals will like relate to things that I’m talking about. So I’ve had dentists or just people in similar professions. But I specifically work with lawyers or talk to lawyers because of my background as a lawyer and knowing their personal stories because they are my stories as well.

Lindsay: Yeah. Probably a lot of student debt for most of them.

Rho: Absolutely.

Lindsay: Yeah, my husband has his MBA and that’s always like our, that’s probably our number one like money question, is like yes, we have money coming in, but where’s the best place to put it? So I can always imagine that anyone with lots of student debt, or lots of whatever, like even when you have money sometimes it’s still like, but what do I do with it? Where’s the best place to put it? Or what are the decisions to make?

Rho: Yeah, I think that’s exactly it. And I think because of all of the messages that we get about debt, it tends to feel really heavy for people and they’re just like, I have all this debt and it’s bad. And so helping to kind of ease that mindset and turn it around to like, debt isn’t necessarily bad, you’re not a bad person for having debt. All of that helps to make money management a little bit easier.

Lindsay: I think that maybe I just need to have you come in and have this conversation with my husband because I’m all the way on the other side. So I need you to just stand in the middle and be like, “Well, actually, neither of you are probably right.”

Rho: There is no right, right?

Lindsay: Because I’m like, “Debt is great, let’s just keep it all.” But he’s the very responsible like, no, we must pay it off as quickly as possible, you know, all the things. So I love that and I just love, I love watching you coach, I love your coaching energy.

I just feel like your clients are probably so grateful for someone was such, I don’t know if you’re always so calm, but I get this comment a lot and I feel that with you as well, like you just always have this very calming presence. And my guess is that when your clients want to talk about money and you come in with just this very calm, like kind of nothing has gone wrong here demeanor, they probably really like that about you.

Rho: Yeah, I think that debt and money and all of that can feel very emotional for people. And I often do have your voice in my head, like what if nothing’s gone wrong? What if this is fine? You know, that playing in my head. And I think having that, like you said, calming energy to let them know or to see that there doesn’t have to be this highly emotional charge around money is really helpful.

Lindsay: Yeah, I’m sure that they get so much out of coaching with you and that they love that about you because I love it about you and I just always notice it.

How was your transition kind of moving from, you know, you had the blog, you started doing that but you were still a lawyer at the time? So how was that transition for you? Like what did that look like?

Rho: So I think the transition really started when the pandemic hit, because when I had the blog when I was helping friends, colleagues, et cetera, it was still very much a hobby. Like oh yeah, I like personal finance, let me tell you about the things that I’ve learned.

When 2020 hit, first of all, just the year 2020 starting, it’s like, how is it 2020? I remember 2010, it does not feel like it’s been 10 years.

Lindsay: Yes.

Rho: So that piece coupled with all the things that happened in 2020, I was like, okay, I’ve been feeling this tug to do something to help lawyers with money. Maybe let me start a podcast where I can reach people more.

And so I started a podcast in 2020 and from there started offering coaching services to people I didn’t know. And so doing that has been really cool because I’m able to share the things that I’m learning, the things that I have learned, all of that more broadly. And I feel like I’m making a bigger difference.

It started to get difficult because of being in a pandemic for two years, I was working from home, and I mentioned the billable hour requirement. I also I have two young kids who are now five and three, but they were three and one when the pandemic hit. So trying to balance billing with my home life was getting very difficult.

And then I’m also feeling this pull to do this other thing, and I know that I can make a difference. And so in 2021, near the end of 2021 I left the practice of law. And that was a difficult decision because I wanted to be a lawyer since I was seven. And so leaving this thing that I thought I was going to do, like I was the first year who went to the partner’s office like, “So I want to be a partner, how do I do that? Tell me all the things,” right?

So making that change was difficult. And I thought that I might spin out. I’m very type A, I want to have my plans, like all the things that I’m going to be doing. And so that was a big part of joining Coaching Masters for me because I knew that there was that possibility of spinning out.

You were starting a mastermind in September, my last day was going to be the beginning of September, I was like, “Oh, this is perfect.” Like timing lines right up, right? I wanted to make sure that I was putting myself in a position to where when I’m leaving this previous identity and stepping fully into this other one, that I was in a container, in an environment where I would be supported and I wouldn’t be just spinning out, like floating away, you know, and just unsure of what’s going on.

Lindsay: Floating away.

Rho: Yeah, like I wanted to be grounded. And so being in Coaching Masters really did ease that transition for me because I think had I not been in that program, had I not been among so many other supportive coaches, it might have been a lot more difficult.

Lindsay: What about being in the mastermind, because I don’t remember ever coaching you on that. Or maybe you got peer coaching on it. I don’t think that you ever brought it up in coaching or brought it to the page. So what do you think it was about it that really helped with it, helped with the transition?

Rho: Yeah, so I didn’t get coaching on it. I did a lot of coaching myself and I also had an outside like general life coach. So I did coach with her on it in the months leading up to the transition. But I think being in a group focused on mastering my skills, because like I mentioned I’m very type A, I want to do all the things and I want to do them right.

And so getting into this mastermind and being among all of the different coaches, you and your calming energy and guiding us along, right, teaching us the different skills and all of that, I think, was helpful in that I’m not just out here in my own brain spinning about like, “Oh my goodness, what have I done?” You know?

Like all of that that could have been going was not going, I think, because I was in this environment specifically focused on honing this skill of coaching because this is the next thing. This is what I want to be doing and I want to make sure that I do it well.

Lindsay: Yeah, so good. And what would you say were your biggest takeaways from being in that mastermind surrounded by the people that were there with you? Like what were kind of some of your biggest takeaways from that?

Rho: I’d say the biggest one, so I just mentioned I wanted to be in there to make sure that I was doing it right. And I was like, oh, we’re all doing it right. There’s no set way to do coaching, right? There’s no set way to be a coach.

And being among so many different people who had different styles, who had trained in different places, you know, all of that and see that, oh, we all are approaching things maybe slightly differently. But we all are achieving the same objective and we’re all doing it “right,” there is no one set way to coach.

I think that was the biggest takeaway. And then also, and it’s so funny because when you’re in your own coaching, like I teach my clients all the time to set goals, right? Like we’ve got to have goals, we’ve got to know what we’re working toward, but I wasn’t really doing that in my coaching, if that makes sense. They had their like monetary goals, but we didn’t set like our coaching goal, if that makes sense.

Lindsay: Right.

Rho: And so then that was a part of my like, oh, am I doing this right? Well, I don’t know. Am I getting them results? Because we didn’t know what we were working to.

Lindsay: Yeah, you never know if you don’t know what the results are that they want.

Rho: Exactly.

Lindsay: It’s just so easy to, as you say, like float away, right? Like just kind of float along in the coaching relationship like, yeah, I don’t know, maybe we’re moving forward.

Rho: Like that was one of the things that you were like, yeah, let’s set these goals and decide how you’ll know once you’ve achieved them. And I’m like, oh, this is a really good idea. Maybe I should have my clients set goals for the coaching relationship and how they’ll know once they’ve achieved them.

So that was kind of a strategic or a tactical thing that I took away from it. But I think the overarching takeaway for me was that there is no one right way to be a coach.

Lindsay: Yes, I think that that’s just so important in an industry where we, as humans, are all so different. Our clients are so different. Our clients are all looking for something specific to them, right? And it’s so interesting to me that so many, and I remember being here, so it’s not like I can’t relate to it at all. But just so many coaches get in that head space of there is a right way and I just have to keep going until I find it.

And I think Coaching Masters is a little bit of like, surprise, there’s definitely no right way. And instead, what we’re going to do is find your way.

Rho: Yeah, and that was super helpful because I probably would have been just like you’re saying, like oh, let me try this thing. Is this the right way, right? Like trying all of these different things and keep going until I found the right thing.

Versus okay, I’m in this program. I’m really honing in on what my way is, right? Like what my process is, the way that I coach and gaining the confidence, building the confidence because I’m not second guessing myself and making myself wrong or doubting whether I’m wrong.

I’m building up the skills, like some of the technical skills that you taught us, but then also building that confidence because I’m realizing that I’m doing it right, right? And I mentioned at some point, I think I was talking to you, I mentioned that I feel so much more confident in my coaching and I think part of that is the things that you’ve taught us.

But then also, and I guess this is something you taught us too, but taking a look at the coaching, right? Like evaluating my coaching. Because I would have these thoughts like, oh, I don’t know if I coached that right. Or like this overarching thought of wanting to feel more confident in my coaching skills, but I had never taken a step to look at whether I was feeling confident after particular calls.

And when I did that in my evaluations, I was like, oh, actually, I’ve got this long list of things that I think that went well. And then only a couple of things that I might have wanted to change. Maybe I’m doing this right, maybe I do know what I’m doing.

So all of that to say Coaching Masters is amazing. I really appreciate the container that you have created, because it helped me.

Lindsay: Well, I appreciate that you were there and that I got to meet you, first of all, and that I got to see your brilliant coaching. And as you were talking, it made me think of something which I experienced from you in the mastermind. I think that it could be interesting to talk about this because it might be very helpful for some people.

One thing I noticed throughout the mastermind is that you’re fairly quiet, like you don’t ask for a lot of coaching on, you know, this isn’t good or bad but some people come to most calls and want coaching on most of the calls, right? But I could tell it wasn’t like you were just quiet, I could tell that you were getting a lot out of it and that you were participating mentally. And you were always posting on the page so it was never like, oh, she’s not showing up. I could just tell that you were showing up in your way.

I’m just curious what your thoughts are about that because I think some people, I’ve heard people say to me like, “Oh, I think I don’t participate enough” or I don’t, you know, whatever. But like what are your thoughts, do you know what I’m talking about first of all?

Rho: Yeah, no I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Lindsay: Okay.

Rho: And no, I never had the thought that I wasn’t participating enough. I really did show up to the calls and I got exactly what I needed from the things that you taught us from listening to things that other people were getting coaching on.

Like, even if I didn’t have that exact same experience, it’s like, oh, well, that’s kind of similar to this other thing that I’ve been dealing with. And so being able to apply the coaching that you gave to other people, was really helpful.

And then, like you said, just being active in the community and talking with people on the page and posting about different things that I was trying. You know, oh, I tried this thing that Lindsay taught us, and this went really well. And you know, all of that, I really did get a lot out of it.

And yes, I do, I wouldn’t say I’m quiet, like people would probably laugh in regular life, when you said that I’m quiet because I’m not quiet in normal life. But in like an educational or learning setting I want to absorb what’s happening, right?

And so I had notes, which you couldn’t see, but I’ll have my little notes page up and I’m taking notes on the different things because I want to make sure that I’m able to soak it in. And I ask questions when I need to, but I don’t feel that I need to all the time.

Lindsay: Yeah, I just love that. I love thinking about like there’s, this goes along with what I teach, right? Like there’s no one perfect way to coach, but there’s also no one perfect way to show up to be coached.

I know sometimes I can be very similar to what you’re saying, where I don’t always show up and get coaching in spaces that I’m in every single time. But my takeaways are huge, always, right? Like even if I wasn’t the one to be coached.

And I just think it’s important for people to know that sometimes that’s okay. Maybe that’s just how you show up. And I think it’s more important to be engaged and your brain is on, right, you’re actively participating whether or not you are asking for coaching or not.

I think some of the biggest breakthroughs I’ve had before have been listening to someone else get coached and me hearing something in a way that I never would have asked it because I didn’t have the words to even say it maybe.

Rho: No, I completely agree with that. And I think sometimes when I’m getting direct coaching I’m not able to absorb the coaching as well, versus when I’m watching someone else be coached. And I can hear, like you said, maybe they ask it in a different way or just something about it, I’m able to receive it a little bit better because it’s not my situation, right?

My emotions aren’t tied up in it because it’s not personal to me. And so I’m able to take the things that are happening with them and the coaching that they’re receiving, and then apply it to my own thing.

Lindsay: So good. I’m so glad I was like, “Oh, should we go down this hole? I’m not sure.” But I’m so glad we did because I think I’ve never really talked about this before, but I completely agree. I have that exact same experience sometimes when I watch someone else get coached.

I love being coached myself also, like when I need it and when I’m like ready for it and whatever. But sometimes, I never thought of it like that, but I think you’re right. I think it’s like that very highly emotional component can be removed and you’re just like, you’re more like the watcher instead of the actual participator in the coaching. And, yeah, it just makes such a big difference sometimes.

Rho: It definitely does.

Lindsay: One of the powers of a mastermind, I suppose, that I have never really been able to articulate. So thank you for that.

Rho: You’re quite welcome.

Lindsay: Okay, what else? Is there anything that you were just hoping that we would talk about today? I’m just going to put you on the spot. If not, that’s okay, I’ll definitely have more questions. But I just wanted to throw that out there in case there’s anything that you’re like, we need to dig into this.

Rho: Well, I think the main thing that I wanted to talk about, and we’ve already talked about it a little bit, but the value of the mastermind and being in community with other coaches and having here are some things for you to think about with your coaching, right? Here are these specific things, like how we ask questions, or I don’t remember all of the specifics right now. But teaching us some very specific skills, but then being in community, with other coaches to talk about your coaching.

There are all kinds of programs for all different parts of your business, but to be able to talk specifically about the skill of coaching and get feedback on your coaching and how you coach this, you know, all of that was invaluable.

And I really think that it spilled over into other areas of my business, like I’m able to show up even more confidently in selling because I’m very confident in the delivery. I know that I’m going to help you, right? I know that you’re gonna get these results because I I know how to coach and I coach right because I did Coaching Masters.

Lindsay: So good.

Rho: But yeah, just like the value in being in a group of coaches who are all focused on that skill, it was just amazing. So thank you.

Lindsay: Thank you for that. I have to share that before we started recording I said, “What do you want to talk about today?” And you were like, “Well, I know I listen to your podcast sometimes and you want to talk about the people and not so much about Coaching Masters, but I’m ready to talk about it.”

Rho: I absolutely had to talk about because everybody needs to be in it, seriously.

Lindsay: I appreciate that and I appreciate you. And thank you for that. But I think it’s true, you know, I have talked about this before but I definitely created it from a space of what I needed, right? Because I am not the person who can go out into the world and just like focus on the selling or focus on the marketing without first focusing on the delivery, right?

Like if I am unsure, and not that it’s wrong to do it that way, because there are people that will say like, yeah, but once you sell it and then you coach all the time, and you just naturally get better, definitely true. Like that is a thing, but not for me. I had to have that confidence in what I was delivering in order to feel good talking about it in the world.

Rho: Yeah. And I mean, I think, to your point, you can absolutely learn the selling and the marketing and see results from those things. But I think when you are 100% confident in the delivery and in the service that you’re providing, you’re going to show up even better in your selling and your marketing. Or at least that’s been my experience.

Lindsay: Yes. Yeah, my selling and marketing are definitely getting better. But I still joke, like at the end of the day I’m like, it’s not necessarily my forte, but I know that I’ll help you get amazing results, so that’s all we need to know.

Rho: Exactly, there you go.

Lindsay: So good. Okay, so how do you think like specifically, you know, if people are listening and they’re like, well, but how? Like how does that happen? How when you improve your coaching skills, like how does it affect your marketing or your sales? And you answered it a little bit when you said when you just are so confident in what you’re delivering. But can you tell like, specifically when you’re writing a post or an email, or wherever you’re writing to your people, can you feel it show up in those places?

Rho: Yeah, I think one of the things, so one thing that we did in Coaching Masters is write out our own process and like knowing exactly how we get our clients, the results that they’re looking for. And so knowing that, I can use that in marketing. But then also I think the way that I do, for instance, a call to action is a lot more certain than before. It’s like, “Oh yeah, maybe you should sign up with me,” versus like, “Oh no, you should absolutely work with me, because I can 100% help you,” right?

Lindsay: Yes.

Rho: Like the difference in the certainty there because I know that I can help, you know, I know that I know what I’m doing with my coaching. And I thought that I did before, right? Like I knew that I was helping people, but there was still that kind of little bit of doubt in the back of my mind like, “Oh, I don’t know if I did that one right, maybe I should have taken that a different way.”

And when that is gone, then you are not going to be as hesitant or timid in your marketing. It’s like no, I can 100% help you. I know that what I’m doing works, come work with me.

Lindsay: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. That just gave me chills when you were saying it. You were convincing me, I was like, “Yes, help me. I think I need that. I don’t even know what it is you’re selling.”

Rho: I can help you.

Lindsay: So okay, yeah, that’s so powerful, I think, right? Just that anytime you’re marketing or selling anything, when you have doubts in whatever it is that you’re doing or whatever it is that you’re selling, of course, it’s going to come through even if it’s in the most subtle ways. And I love that you gave the example of the call to action because I remember when mine used to be like, “I mean, you know, like DM me if you want.” Like that was kind of the, I didn’t say that but that was the energy behind it.

Rho: Right, that was the energy, yeah.

Lindsay: And now it’s like you’re crazy if you’re not coming along, what’s happening? Let’s do this.

Rho: Exactly. And I even mentioned Coaching Masters to some of my clients like, oh yeah, I’m in this mastermind building my coaching skills. And they thought it was the best thing ever, like they thought it was so cool. And just thinking about caring so much about your coaching skills and about your clients that you’re willing to invest in yourself to improve them. I think it says a lot, right? It speaks volumes.

And then, of course, because you’ve put that time, that money into your coaching skills, into your craft, into the thing that you say that you want to do, right, you put time and money into all the other things, you know, those of us who went to college or law school or whatever other schools, right? Like you put a lot of time and money into that, why not do the same with your coaching skills, right?

I think that you owe your clients that. You want to be the best coach that you can be for your clients and it’s hard to do that when you’re doubting yourself all the time. Speaking from experience, this is me personally. I’m not going to talk about anybody else. But for me, with that doubt in the back of my mind I know that that was probably coming across in the coaching calls that I had, versus now it’s just like, yes, this is what we’re doing. A, B, C, you know, let’s talk, let’s go. And I didn’t have that doubt or that I’m unsure, you know? And then that timidity coming across. Is timidity a word?

Lindsay: I don’t know, we’re just making up words.

Rho: Timidness or whatever coming across in those coaching calls, because I’m sure if I’m unsure or if I’m feeling doubtful, then that’s transferring to the clients. And then they maybe feel doubtful or aren’t able to show up as powerfully as they could because I’m not showing up as powerfully as I could.

Lindsay: Yes. So okay, we’re going to switch gears a little bit because I think that this could be fun to talk about just for a few minutes, because I’m sure that so many people are also in this space. But I know that you, because we’ve talked about it, I know that you have two kids, two little kids at home and I’m just curious how you juggle all of it. I know that you’re very busy, you have a lot of clients, you have kids who sometimes stomp on the floor and are noisy.

That’s just a joke from before we started the podcast. But how have you decided to kind of, you don’t have to give me the strategic like specifics, you can if you want to. But how does that work for you? Like where do you find the balance?

Rho: Well it’s funny that you mentioned that because if you remember, that was one reason that I almost didn’t join Coaching Masters, because I was nervous about my kids being home, and what time would the calls be? And do I have to be there live? And all of that. And I was making it this very black and white situation of like I can only do things for my business when my kids are sleeping, right?

So it was like I was doing things early in the morning and then in the evening. And that was a part of the almost spin out that we were talking about with leaving the law, because I was not only doing legal work early in the morning or in the evening. And so if I have left the practice of law to coach full time, this is now my job. And so the same way that I did legal work at the times that I needed to, I can do with coaching as well.

Granted, with coaching I’m able to set the schedule more so that I can set it around their schedules and things like that that are more convenient for me. But I was very much not prioritizing the coaching because I was like, oh, well, I’ve got kids. I can’t work while my kids are, you know, I’ve got to be there with my kids.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Rho: And so something in that time of leaving the practice of law, going into coaching and thinking about coaching as my job now, like some of the conversations that I had, some of the coaching that I had gotten helped me to see where I was making coaching or using it almost like a, viewing it almost like a hobby, right? Because it had been a side hustle for a while, it was something I was doing in the morning and the evenings.

And so what I’ve done is I carve out the specific times that I’m working either with client calls or working other aspects of my business. And then those times I know that this is the time on Mondays or Tuesdays or whatever it is. And then I make sure that with the boys they are taken care of in whatever way they need to.

So for instance, if it’s a client call that’s during their quiet time or maybe a playtime that they have playing together, it might be in the evenings after they go to sleep. It might be in the mornings before they wake up. But I fit it in in times that I can, right, fit it in to times that work so that they are not going to, for instance, come in on the call like, “Hey Mommy, can you help me with X?” If that makes sense.

Lindsay: Oh yeah.

Rho: And then with other things, like things that are not client facing or I’m not communicating with someone where I need it to be quiet, we might have study time together where my little one is learning his ABCs, my older one is learning to read, all of that. So we might be sitting together doing those things and working.

Lindsay: Oh yes, I remember these hours. I used to do basically the exact same thing.

Rho: Yeah, but it’s a matter of really honoring the business and not relegating it to the hustle, you know, side hustle hours or whatever it is. It’s possible to make that time, but really it’s, I think, looking at your schedule and determining, okay, these are the times that I have available for clients, or for work, or whatever it is, non-client work. And then this is how it works with my kids schedules.

Lindsay: Yes. Yeah, I do not miss those days necessarily, because my kids are a little older, they’re nine and 12. Two girls, so the opposite. But I do remember exactly that, like just kind of deciding ahead of time, okay, what hours? Which days, which hours am I available to coach? And then which hours can I work when maybe my kids are around?

And we had something set up very similar, where it’s like we would all sit at the table, or in the living room, or wherever. I would have my computer, they would have their books, whatever it was they were doing. And we would just kind of all work together. And that’s what, not doing actual coaching calls. But when I was doing the business side or marketing or whatever, yeah, I would just figure it out.

Rho: Yeah. And I think for, especially moms, right, like we tend to feel the mom guilt of like, oh, I’ve got to be with my kids all the time. If I’m not with them then it’s bad or something like that. When I was looking at my practice, my legal practice, I didn’t have, I guess I had a choice. But you know what I’m saying? Like I needed to bill these hours, right? The client doesn’t care.

Lindsay: You weren’t necessarily in charge of what was happening.

Rho: Exactly, the client is not like, “Oh, well, you were home with your kids and it’s fine that this work didn’t get done.” Like the work still needed to get done. And I think viewing my coaching practice in the same way, as in I still want to do this work, this is something that is important to me, and so making that time to do it is important. And I can figure out how to fit this in and it doesn’t have to be black and white only times when my kids are sleeping.

Lindsay: Yes.

Rho: And making it more of a priority is helpful. The other piece of that is when I was having this conversation with a friend, or it might have been a coach, I can’t remember now. But we were talking about the fact that I’m not only with my kids all the time, like I wasn’t spending all of that time with my kids. You know, it might be that I was washing dishes and they were watching TV, or I was looking at Instagram while they were playing.

And so it’s like, well, why then couldn’t I, instead of doing the dishes, do some, like you said, marketing for the business or do some of those non-client facing things. Because it’s the same thing, like I’m still not spending quality time with the kids if I’m washing the dishes, or if I’m on Instagram, or doing something else.

And so I think we’ve got to pay attention to the, I say unconscious conditioning that we have around business. You know, work and being parents, because a lot of times we’ve got this negative association with the business side of it like, oh, no, I can’t be working on my business, I should be with my kids. But I can be washing dishes, or folding laundry, or on Instagram or something else and I don’t feel that same guilt about it.

And so just looking at those thoughts that we have about business and parenting versus household chores and parenting or whatever other things that we’ve got going on, is really helpful when you’re trying to figure out how to fit in your business things amongst your parental responsibilities.

Lindsay: Yes, yep. I remember having conversations with my husband where it was just like, “Okay, listen, sometimes when you come home,” because he worked outside of the home, I was working at home. My kids were in preschool part of the time, but then they’d be home sometimes in the afternoons and a lot of times it was like quiet time.

So I would be working, exactly what you were just saying. And before I’d always spent that time doing the dishes and doing the, like just all the little random things. And I remember having a conversation with my husband that was something along the lines of like listen, when you come home, this house is going to be a disaster because I’m going to spend zero time cleaning or like any of the things.

And that was just one, even though I’d had a business before I kind of didn’t do that. And it was kind of very unhealthy the way I was running the business and never sleeping and being up, like you said, trying to do everything when kids were sleeping. Which is almost impossible to run a full time business while kids are sleeping.

Rho: It really is.

Lindsay: It’s too much.

Rho: No, but I love that you set that expectation and that you decided like actually no, I’m going to let these things just go for this period of time because I’m going to use this time for my business and putting that intention, you know, setting that intention so that you’re not ending up using all of your time doing household chores and then never having time to do the business stuff.

Lindsay: Yeah, of course when I told him he kind of laughed and didn’t even think twice about it. But he was like, why do you think you have to tell me that, right? But it was just those, like you said, it is that conditioning that we have that’s like this is how it’s supposed to look, this is what’s supposed to happen.

Rho: Exactly.

Lindsay: And I just wanted him to know that’s not how it was going to be.

Rho: And I think, everyone, just question all of that. Like anything that you think is just how it’s supposed to be, question at all.

Lindsay: Yes.

Rho: And ask yourself, is it really? Because maybe it’s not. And it might be just like Lindsay’s husband, where no one else is expecting that of you and you’re just putting it on yourself.

I’ve definitely been in that position as well, where I was taking on things that my husband never expected me to do. He thought I just liked doing it or something.

Lindsay: Yep. Yes, so interesting, right? When you start, I feel like I’ve spent a lot of money on coaching to work through all those thoughts.

Rho: Yep.

Lindsay: But I am glad that we talked about this because I know so many coaches that have kids and young kids and are trying to navigate that and figure it out. And I am a little bit out of that now because my kids are both in school and have their own kind of things going on, don’t really care what I’m doing usually, even when they get home.

Rho: And see, I know that like this stage feels difficult, but at the same time I know that I’ll miss it when my kids get to your kids age.

Lindsay: Yes, that is true. And there is just another set of fun things, right? It’s just different. It’s like now I can have conversations with them like they’re little adults. And I’m going to check in with you in like five years or so and see how it’s going because my kids both have businesses.

Rho: I love it.

Lindsay: And I think it’s because they, I mean, I’ve never told them to, I’ve never said you should do this or whatever. But they, I think, just all the time that they’ve spent watching me do it in all that working time, right? When I’m like, here we are, we’re working together, you’re doing your work, I’m doing my work. I think they just kind of absorbed a lot of it.

And they talk about money all the time, like just in different ways. Not talking about how much money they have, but just all the things about money. They just love talking about money. And it’s just interesting, it’s a different life, that’s for sure.

Rho: Well, I’ll say I’m already seeing some of that. Like I’ll be talking to my three year old and he’s like, “Oh yeah, I’m on a call.” I’m like, “Oh, who are you talking to?” He’ll be on little calls and things like that. So I’m interested to see if they get to, you know, your kid’s ages and decide that they want to be entrepreneurs as well, because I would love that.

Lindsay: Yeah, and it’s interesting, my older daughter who’s 12, she’s old enough to like really understand at all. And so she has a business and she sells stuff even at the farmers markets. And she comes to me with just all of these questions.

And it’s almost a thing that we can bond over, right? Because it’s like just the common interest. And so it’s really interesting, we’ll see, we’ll see what happens. I don’t know that they’ll have them forever. But for now it is a fun thing that they love and that we can talk about.

Rho: And just what great experience for them to because it’s not something that’s taught in schools and I think that it should be. Like we should learn more about running businesses and things like that. So it’s great that they’re able to get that information from you, and especially at such young ages.

Lindsay: Well, and it brings up conversations about money that I know we would never have otherwise, like there just wouldn’t really be reasons to have, right? But it’s like, well, you make this money, but it’s not all profit, right? This isn’t just, you don’t just go spend the money, here’s what you might need to use it on. And let’s talk about like do you want to donate any of the money?

It’s like we have all these different conversations and it’s just so fun watching them think through and making their own decisions and really deciding what’s important to them and what isn’t.

Rho: Yeah, they’re going to be so prepared too, for adulthood.

Lindsay: We’ll see, or they’re just going to be like, “Forget all of this, I am just an entrepreneur, I’m never learning anything else. I’m just going to go sell bracelets for the rest of my life.” Who knows?

Rho: No, but I just think that because they are having the opportunity to think through some things that people never think about until they’re probably well into adulthood, you know? They’re having the opportunity to think through those things now and so then as they enter adulthood, they’re going to be like really set up.

Lindsay: Oh, for sure.

Rho: Even if they decide they want to sell bracelets the rest of their lives.

Lindsay: Some of the things I’m like, I don’t think I knew about this until I was like 30. What’s happening?

Rho: Exactly.

Lindsay: Well, thank you, thank you so much for being on today. This was so fun.

Rho: Yes, thank you for having me. It’s been such a pleasure.

Lindsay: What is your podcast called?

Rho: My podcast is called Wealthyesque. It’s all about learning to build true wealth, which I say is having control of your time, not just the monetary wealth.

Lindsay: Love that. I don’t think I knew that that was the name of it. I really like that, it’s so fun.

Rho: Thank you.

Lindsay: Yeah, I’m going to have to go check it out. Okay, so people can find your podcast and where else can they find you if they love you, if they need more of you?

Rho: Best place to find me is my website, which is rhothomas.com, and it’s R-H-O thomas.com. And it has links to my podcast, to my Instagram, my LinkedIn, which are the main places that I hang out, all of the things. So head to rhothomas.com and let’s connect.

Lindsay: Love it. Everybody, go find Rho. Also, I love your name. I don’t think I’ve ever told you that, but I think every time I say it, I’m like, gosh, that’s a good name.

Rho: Thank you.

Lindsay: Yeah. All right, well, thank you so much. Is there anything else? Have we left anything out?

Rho: Nope, I think we covered it all.

Lindsay; Okay, perfect. Well, thank you so much for being here.

Rho: Thank you for having me.

Lindsay: Bye.

Rho: Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. see you next week.