Lindsay Dotzlaf: Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf, and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills, episode 305.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey coach, welcome to the podcast. This is the next episode of the Unfinished series, episode five out of 10. And thanks for putting up with my quick bonus episode last week. I hope that you enjoyed it and that you found a lot of value in it. If you haven’t listened, go back and listen. It was something I hadn’t planned to talk about in this series, but I just needed to pop in and talk about it. So today, we’re doing something a little different and I’m very excited. Today you get to hear a conversation between myself and one of my very favorite humans, Brig Johnson.

Brig was the very first coach that I interviewed on this podcast, on the Mastering Coaching Skills podcast, almost six years ago. It is episode nine, and you can go back and listen. But first, I want you to listen in to this fun conversation. We check in on where she was then and where she is now, all the things that have changed, how much she has learned in these six years, what she works with with her clients now.

And I promise you, this is one you’re going to want to save and listen to over and over because she shares so much goodness with us. And I really hope you enjoy it. I said it six years ago and I’m going to say it again now, Brig is one of the most brilliant coaches that I know, and everything she shares in this conversation is a chef’s kiss.

I’m going to let her introduce herself and tell you what she does, what she’s doing now. And I don’t want to make you wait any longer. So let’s just dive right in. Oh, and real quick, if you’re listening in real time, you still have a couple weeks to get your questions in if you want to hear me answer your question in the Q&A that I’ll be doing in this 10-part series. I will answer any question you have. So, go to the link. We’ll put it in the show notes. Submit your questions. You can even leave them with audio notes if you want. If you would love to hear your voice on this podcast. Go do that now. That is something worth pausing for so that you don’t forget, so you get the questions in. Now, no further ado, let’s get to this conversation with Brig.

Hello, hello. Oh my goodness, I’m so excited you’re here today. People, if they’ve been listening, they know you, but please introduce yourself anyway. Tell them who you are and what you do.

Brig Johnson: Oh, I’m Brig Johnson. I am a life and wellness coach. And yeah, that’s it. That’s what I do.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I love it. And thank you so much for being here today. I just had so much fun relistening to our first interview, which was so fun and almost exactly six years ago, which is crazy.

Brig Johnson: Wow, yeah. I’m so excited about that. I literally was like, when you text me and said I’m relistening, I went to try to find it and I like I couldn’t find it. I was like, I want to relisten too.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Well, you’ll have to listen after. Maybe it’s good that you didn’t because you, then we might just keep talking about the same thing. Like it might be interesting to hear actually how different some of your answers are and some of the things that have changed. Because I took a few notes of things that I wanted to touch on from the old interview, but the reason I’m having you here, besides you’re amazing, everybody can learn so much from you, like besides all of those obvious things.

And I think I told you this, but I don’t even remember, but I am, this is kind of, I’m off-ramping this podcast to on-ramp a brand new podcast. And you, and it’s going to be in the same feed, so don’t worry. People will still be able to come here, listen to this interview. But you were the very first interview on the Mastering Coaching Skills podcast, and now you’re going to be the very last.

Brig Johnson: Oh, I love it.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: And we’re still friends and we still talk and I still get to see you every once in a while, which is amazing.

Brig Johnson: We’re still girl crushing.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Oh yeah, always, always the biggest girl crush on you. But I just want to catch up. I want to hear some of the things I thought we could talk about is just like what is happening six years later? What has changed about your business? What’s changed about the work you do? And we’ll just see. People just get to be kind of a fly on the wall as we just have this…

Brig Johnson: I love those kind of conversations.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yes. So we’re just going to let them into what we might just be sitting here talking about anyway.

Brig Johnson: Okay.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Okay, so, first question, are you ready?

Brig Johnson: Mhm, I’m ready. Let’s go.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Okay. Do you still love coaching?

Brig Johnson: Oh my god, yes. Almost to a fault. Like literally, if I didn’t love it so much, I’m like, hell, I would not be doing this anymore. You know, I want to quit sometimes. Like with any business, literally, I’m like, oh God, there was a two-year period where I was like, what the hell am I doing? But I love coaching. I love what coaching has done for me. I love what coaching has done to my clients. I love what coaching has done for other people that I have no part of. Yeah. So, do I love coaching? Yes, I do. I probably love it even more now because there was a love-hate relationship and I chose it over again.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Oh, that’s fun.

Brig Johnson: It’s like, would I remarry this person after the affair, after the betrayal? Yeah, I would remarry coaching again.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I love hearing that. And the reason I started with that is because we talked about it actually on the first interview and you said it like multiple times. So I just made a note of it and it was like, I just, this is like such a simple question, but it must be asked because it was so clear how much we both were just in love with coaching in that first interview. So I’m glad to hear that. So fun.

Brig Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. If you had asked me like three years ago, I’d be like, eh yeah!

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Do you mind saying more about that? Like, what do you mean? What created that or what that was for you?

Brig Johnson: I think for me, it was just the experience of a coaching business and going from the high of everybody is quarantined and everybody wants to work on themselves to everybody is free and the last thing I want to do is look at a screen. And then going from I can help you with that to now I literally have to explain how I help, what I do, like and then learning that because I like all I had to do was say I can help you with that. I’m a coach. And people were like, yes.

And then it went to the buyers got more educated and I got educated in coaching, but I didn’t get educated in marketing. And so my love-hate relationship with coaching was because I spent so much time learning the craft of coaching and not the mechanism of marketing. And there were people who were great marketers who couldn’t coach worth a damn and I was, I was pissed. Right? Like, and I’m like, ugh.

And so I just literally had to like go through that period of like, yeah, this is my, I call it the new Coke. This is my new Coke decision and I don’t know for people who don’t remember, Coca-Cola long time ago changed their formula and then they made it and no one liked it. So then they had to call it the new Coke and then the classic Coke and then they finally was like, okay, we’re going to bring back classic Coke and they got rid of new Coke.

And it’s like, yeah, businesses make decisions sometimes, even big businesses make decisions that you’re like, what the hell was I thinking? It was working. Why did I bring in a new, like, why did I change the formula? It was working.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Why do we do this to ourselves?

Brig Johnson: Right, yeah. And so it was two years of, eh, coaching is just the most frustrating thing in the world because my desire to coach was still there and my belief in it was still there. I just, the vehicle was like, how the hell do I get this to people? So, yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yeah. How did you get yourself out of that place? Do you remember?

Brig Johnson: Yeah, I do. For me, I literally had to create safety first. And the biggest thing for me of safety was my income was going down and yeah, I’m a high earner girly. I am not going to complain. I am not going to apologize. I’m a high earner girly.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I love this so much. Hold on. We have to just pause. I just want you to say it one more time for people listening. It’s so good to hear.

Brig Johnson: Yeah, I am. I’m a high earner girly. I am. I worked my ass off to be that. So I am like a high six-figure girl or mid six-figure girl. And so for me to quit anesthesia and do coaching full-time was like, yeah, I’m maintaining. But one of my promises to myself was I was not going to go back to going to the grocery store with a calculator. Like, I buy shit and never look at, like I would lose on a price is right because I don’t know the price. I’m like Congress. I don’t know what the, I still don’t know what gas is and I don’t know what eggs are right now. I’m like, that’s me.

But that’s also because I live well below my means on purpose so I can. But when I started having to like look at my checking account to like, can I do this? When I started questioning whether or not I should continue with the housekeeper, like all the stuff and I was like, coaching then started getting the brunt of like, coaching is making me do this. Yeah. So for me, safety was financially, I like literally, I had to have that heart-to-heart with myself of you’re going to the grocery store now and you’re looking at prices. We said we would never go back to that.

And I had to take my ass back to work. So I went back to work and established some safety, but I did it on my conditions, meaning it had to allow me to still coach. So I was like, okay, you’re going to go back to work, but these are the parameters. It took about a year. It doesn’t, nothing like you’re like, oh, first paycheck. No, it took about a year. I was like, are we out the hole yet? Nope. We are still not out the hole. So it took about a year and within that, I was considering, this is good. Life is good now. Like I get off work and I don’t have to do anything. Do we want to continue?

And that was my rechoosing coaching again. And that was a year-long process of like having everything, would I rechoose coaching again? And the answer was a resounding yes. So then it was easier to build and go back to from safety of, okay, my bills are paid, everything’s good, like, okay, this is fun again, as opposed to damn coaching, taking all my money.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yes. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it’s so hard to build anything that you want to build from that place of the pressure and the lack of safety really.

Brig Johnson: Yeah, yeah. Like I’m like, got rid of my podcast for a little while. I’m like cause the podcast editor, I’m like I’m not spending money for this and it’s like all of it. And it’s like yeah, yeah, so there was like probably like six to eight months where I didn’t do a podcast and that was me just like reconsidering re-everything.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I’m so grateful that you are talking about this and that you’re open about it because I just know I’ve so many coaches who are even if maybe they’re in the beginning and they haven’t even had that period of making money and even feeling what that feels like and I just always tell them like we have to find a way to relieve the pressure. Like this, it’s impossible to build from being inside this pressure-filled pot right here.

Brig Johnson: Yeah, my consults, I’m like, the consult is like, I need you to sign. Whenever it’s like that, it’s not fun for me, much less fun for them. And I like I’m not inquisitive because now I’m trying to instead of being inquisitive to what the problem is, I’m like, how can I get them to sign? Never, never good. Like and my consults have always been transformative for my clients and when they stopped talking about that, I knew I was going down the wrong path.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Oh, yeah. So good. That’s such a good measurement of, oh, things are feeling different, not just for me, but I can see it’s affecting maybe my clients or potential clients.

Brig Johnson: Yeah, I’ve had people who like come up to me who didn’t sign but will tell me, I’m still thinking about that consult. Like you read me because I do. I tell them like, this is the problem, such and such, such and such, this is what. And that clarity alone for so many people, if you can just, this is the problem, it’s like, thank you. And I stopped doing that because I’m not, the problem was I needed money. So now I’m solving for that. Lindsay Dotzlaf: But hold on. What are these people doing though? Because you changed their life with a consult and then they didn’t hire you? What the heck?

Brig Johnson: I know, I know, I know.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Listen, if you’re listening and this is you, you need to question this decision.

Brig Johnson: And so many people are just like, you’re on my list. And I’m like, okay. I’m like…

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Like I’m not going to be available when you’re ready, whenever that’s going to be.

Brig Johnson: No, to me, I’m like, you won’t get to the point where you can do it without my help. And I truly believe that. And not like you can’t, but you’ll get there a whole lot easier. I have like two people right now that I’m working with that I literally was like for a year and a half, two years telling them, like, you need to work with me. And I very rarely tell people that, but like you need to work with me.

And the girl, one of them, she’s like, I cannot believe, like her income has damn near doubled. I cannot believe everything that’s happened. I was like, yeah, because it was like I saw the problem. I don’t say it unless I see it. I’m like, yeah, you need to work with me.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: In our last interview, you said that you would wake up at 3:00 a.m. thinking about your client’s problems.

Brig Johnson: Oh.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Are you still doing that?

Brig Johnson: No. No, thank God.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Okay, just because you’re sleeping better, maybe not because you’re not thinking about your clients.

Brig Johnson: I’m sleeping so good. But I do think about them. I think I think because there were huge, like I have the IP now. So it’s like I don’t have to think about them. It’s like, where are they in the category? Like I have the foundation and the formulas. Back then, I didn’t even have my intellectual property of like, I was always asking, well, what’s different? Why are they struggling? I know exactly why now. It’s an authority problem, it’s a capacity problem, it’s a self-trust problem. Like I already know, so no, it’s not keeping me up at night. I think where it still comes up is when I intentionally go into bro sphere.

I intentionally go into the bro sphere and go down a YouTube rabbit hole and listen and listening on purpose of like, yeah, that’s not going to work. Yeah, that’s not going to work. How would I say it? What would I say? Or where I would rub it? Like, ooh, because sometimes they’ll say something I’m like, I agree, but I don’t agree all the way and I don’t know why. And then I would meditate on that.

So that’s kind of how I do it now. Or if I have a client that’s stuck. Usually if I have a client that’s stuck though, I already know where it is because I’ve done it for so long now. It’s like I’ve answered all of those kind of questions. Not that there aren’t any holes, I’m sure there are still, but the holes aren’t as big. So yeah, it doesn’t require me staying up at 3:00 in the morning.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: This is good. I read that or I heard that and I started laughing because I thought, I need to check in on this. See if she’s still waking up at 3:00.

Brig Johnson: No, I’m not.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: When you say the bro sphere, I don’t think you mean like the gross like manosphere, like, I don’t know, like weird dater, whatever guys.

Brig Johnson: Yeah, the blue pill people or the red pill people, yeah, no.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: But you mean probably like Alex Hormozi for example.

Brig Johnson: Yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Okay, because I listened to an interview with him the other day…

Brig Johnson: Alex, Dan Martel, yeah, all of those. I’m like, where do I agree and where do I differ and where’s the break? Because Alex is really good at explaining business and everything and he’s smart and he does put a little bit of mindset in it, but I’m like, but there’s, I always like, what is what is it? What is it? Like, yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yes. I totally agree. I rarely listen to him, but I listened to, I don’t know, it was like a two-hour interview. It was very good. And I took some notes actually. And I took notes about things that I was like, ooh, the things that I was like, this is great. And then he would say something, it was like he would end it with something that I just felt like, ugh.

Brig Johnson: Ugh. Yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: So, yes, I love that. That’s funny that you do that too because I had this thought like, I can’t tell anyone I’m listening to this, to this stuff.

Brig Johnson: No, I just, like I literally like sometimes when I’m not doing anything, I’m like, let me see what the bros are saying. Like I’ll I’ll listen to Steven Bartlett Diary of a CEO and I’m like, okay, where are we at now? What who you got on?

Lindsay Dotzlaf: That’s the podcast I was listening to. Alex Hermozi was on it.

Brig Johnson: I think Alex and Chris Williamson, their interviews are always the best because they go deeper and like I get like, uh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Ah, there it is right there. That’s where I disagree. So, yeah. Lindsay Dotzlaf: Some of them I can’t do. But then I can listen to Alex. I actually don’t know who this who the other person is, so I’ll have to listen to this.

Brig Johnson: Oh yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: But yeah, some I can’t do. The ones that are just like too loud and what I would call like Fox News energy. I can’t do it. Not for me. Okay, so last this is a perfect segue I think into last time when we talked, I guess we’ve actually had a few. So I should say in our first interview, six years ago, you had kind of just come out to, I’m coaching high achieving Black women. We had a whole conversation about it. And now six years later, I noticed that you didn’t say that at the beginning when I asked you what you do. So let’s talk about it.

Brig Johnson: Let’s talk about that. Like first of all, it’s so funny that I like literally like I stressed over high achieving Black women for like a year. Like you had to literally coach me. I was like, I’m just not qualified. I’m not like I don’t I don’t I didn’t take American Afro-American studies in school. Like and you would be like, but you’re a Black woman. It’s like, no, but I’m not I didn’t read this book. Like I didn’t have the credentials, which is totally Black woman. Like I was literally Black womaning being a Black woman’s coach. Like…

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I think eventually at some point I just said, okay, then go read it. And then, but I could tell you didn’t, you know, it was like, oh, oh, well…

Brig Johnson: Oh, okay, but no, because it’s not just one book, like there’s a catalog of book that qualifies you. Like it would have been a never-ending like…

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Of course. That’s why I challenged you on it, right? Like I knew that wasn’t the answer, but…

Brig Johnson: It’s like, yeah. Yeah, because it’s always more. Like that’s the Black woman thing is like more, more credentials, more skills, more, I’m more qualified, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more. And I’m like, ah, I was I was in that track of like I’m not. And so, yeah, and then for five years, I concentrated solely. I still had other cultures, but I concentrated solely on Black women, developed my a whole different coaching technique, everything from it, all of it, all my IP, all of that. And then with this latest, like since the election, first of all, I was mad at white women. I was so mad at white women. I was like, what did y’all do? Lindsay Dotzlaf: I mean, let me just say, same.

Brig Johnson: I know, right? Like most of us. Like, yeah. And I’m like, what is it? And I’m like, oh. And then I was like, well, forget it. And I think I even did a podcast of The Betrayal. It was called The Betrayal of the Black Woman, and it was all like, we just felt so betrayed. Like no one had our back during that election. No one had women’s back. I’m like, do y’all not see what’s coming?

And I went from that to, oh, like, I started seeing more white women feeling the exact same way. And I’m like, oh, we’re all in this. And then eventually I got to, listen, we are all oppressed, and half of us don’t know we are. And I have to open it up because I have, my skills actually help open that up. Like if you see it, I call them cages, then we can, like we’ll all be free. And so that’s when it was like, no, this is for all women.

And so I full circle back to, but I needed that time to concentrate on Black women because that’s where the richness came. Because if I had of just done all women, it would have been so, it wouldn’t have gone as deep. Like the IP that I have now and the way I teach and what, in the order in which I teach it, is because of Black women. And it just works for everybody now. Like the woman that I was saying that she’s like doubled, she’s, she’s not Black and she’s like, this is so good. And I’m like, yep.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: So when did you make that shift?

Brig Johnson: Probably, I’ve been like playing around with it for a year, but I didn’t uncover it because the podcast is now The Unkaged Woman. It’s not The Black Woman’s Stress Solution, and that literally just happened three weeks ago.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Okay. I just saw it right before we got on here. It looks so good. I love the cover. It’s great.

Brig Johnson: Yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: So people should definitely go check that out. And what did you, I guess you kind of already answered this, but in that process of zooming in, working with Black women, what are the things that you learned in those experiences that you, maybe that helped you be a better coach for everyone?

Brig Johnson: Mm. Yeah, because I had this experience with one high-achieving Black woman who was amazing. Matter of fact, she’s on a book tour right now, like killing it. Like her book is like in all the areas and everything and killing it. And she did, at the end, her review wasn’t the best of me and my coaching. And I took that as like, oh my God. And it like literally hurt my feelings, but yet, it made me like really look at how I was using the model and CBT and all of that. But I wasn’t addressing the underlying shit underneath all of it.

And I’m like, all of that has its place. All of it works. But until we get safety first and address that and the cultural conditioning, none of it lands. And so it’s a sequencing. And I learned so much from that failure. And that’s why I always tell people a good coach, a good coach will either, even if the client doesn’t like, doesn’t give you a good review and like still will say, don’t work with her. Like, she’s a mess. If you learned from it and if like, you look at that and you like, I changed my whole program because of that. I like literally was like, oh, this and this and this.

Because I was using everyday all coaching tools, and they really don’t apply. Like, they’re in a sense, they were shaming her for her response to what I call an effed-up system. Like, and that’s what I think coaching does for a lot of women of color or women. It’s like, we make our thinking wrong or our adaptation to a messed-up world wrong as opposed to embracing it, understanding it, make sense of it, creating safety. And then you can coach from it. But I think that is the main thing that I learned.

And I’m so thankful for that experience. And every time, like she’s on CBS News, every, every time I, like she literally, I’m like, every time I see her, I am so thankful for it. So thankful.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I love that story so much. That is so, I mean, I don’t love that she didn’t give you an incredible review, but such a good example of, first, knowing we do not always have to be perfect. Some clients are going to say, this wasn’t the best coaching I’ve ever had. And I think that yeah, when you learn from it, that’s like the ultimate learning.

Brig Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Like every client since her has benefited from it, like completely. Yeah, because of that.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: When you say safety first, what does that mean?

Brig Johnson: I think when we understand neurobiology, when we understand that the way to create a area where our prefrontal cortex can lead the executive functioning, like the thing that can get us to do what we need to do, I’ll say it from this, I’ll tell a story. I love Top Chef. I don’t know if you like Top Chef, but I look at every, like it’s on season what, 23, I’m a Top Chef person.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I don’t like it that much, but I’ve certainly have seen it, for sure.

Brig Johnson: And I love the new host. I love the new host. This season, there was a contestant who was really good. Like you can’t get on Top Chef if you’re not a good cook, like a good chef. There’s no way. So the quality of their cooking is never in question. It’s, can they cook under pressure? Can they cook when pivots come, like change this or swap out with your person and then finish it? Can they cook with ingredients they never, like in like unknown? Can they cook under a time check? Can they cook when being judged?

All of that creates pressure. That’s not a skill problem. And so many of us are like, I need another certification. I need more skill. That’s not a skill problem. That’s, can I stay within myself? Can I stay regulated? Can I stay within my body? Can I experience this and still produce my skills? That’s a safety issue.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Such a great example. And I think we could use any kind of competition reality show because I’m sure every listener has seen at least one where you can just see the people where they are like taken out by something, confidence, comparing themselves to someone, being thrown a curveball, like whatever, something that happens that they are like, oh, nope, not, of course I’m amazing at whatever this thing is I do, but not under these circumstances.

Brig Johnson: Right. Yeah. And the answer isn’t more skill. Like I need to learn how to cook more. I need to like such and such, or we like try to pretend like, okay, well, hit me with a curveball. Like no. Like the answer is learning how to be with yourself, learning how to tend to yourself in those moments, and learning, knowing how to know yourself. I call it the Yada principle. And Yada in Hebrew just means know yourself. Like, and I think women are taught to know our spouses, know our kids, know our boss, know our environment, but never are we encouraged to know ourselves.

And like, we literally, by how our spouse walks in the door, before they even get to us, we know whether or not they’re in a good mood or a bad mood. But how much do you know about your pattern? Do you know that like before such and such, like you tense up? Do you know, like do you know that when you start saying this, you’re doubting yourself? Like how much of you do you know and understand? And we’re not taught to do that.

And if we do, we’re, we’re creating a problem because now we’re self-important, now we’re not humble, now we’re not marketable, now we’re too much or too full of ourselves. But men are so encouraged to know and understand themselves and like accept everything about them. They burp, they fart, they like in public, everything. But no, we can’t. Like, I don’t fart. I don’t do that. Like, yeah, you do. Your shit stinks.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: No, I don’t. I definitely don’t. No, but this is so true. I think about this all the time. Like, why, not in coaching context, but just out in the world, like, why, why are they acting like this? What’s going on? Why do we not act like this?

Brig Johnson: Right. Yeah. Like there’s total acceptance of them, who they are, but yet for us, there’s this, like, no, I don’t know my, like we just aren’t encouraged to know ourselves. And we’re also encouraged to give that authority of who I am to someone else. Someone else tells us we’re a good mother. Someone else tells us like someone has to tell me I’m a good coach. Like that client would have said I’m a bad coach, and I was supposed to take that label of I’m a bad coach as opposed to, oh, I dropped the ball on this, this, this, this, knowing myself and knowing my coaching.

And I’m a good coach because of it. Like I don’t outsource that out to someone else. And if you outsource it out to someone else, then you’re always on high alert because they can always take it back. Your kids can always say you’re bad. Your husband can always say you’re not a good spouse or your wife. Like your boss can always say you were good last year. I don’t know what happened this year. Like it can always be taken away. And that creates a sense of unstability, and that’s not safety. But if we give it to ourselves, we are always safe.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: And what does that mean when you say we have to learn to give it to ourselves? I mean, I know what it means, but like for the listener, like how would you describe that?

Brig Johnson: I think it’s just again, that knowing of yourself, that acceptance. I always say like people, and I probably said it six years ago, it’s one thing to know and understand and accept your good. Some people can know and understand their bad, but very few of us look at their our ugly and accept and know and, like our bad habits or I do this. Like just yesterday I was coaching someone who had a history of stopping and quitting, quitting, stopping. I start, stop all the time. And she had so much shame about quitting. And I’m like, that’s who you are. That’s your ugly. Like, that’s who you are. Like we don’t have to make that mean anything other than I start and stop projects all the time.

She had so much shame about it that she couldn’t even solve the problem because the problem was her. The problem is not you, the problem is a mechanism. But if the problem is a label, I’m a quitter, then it’s terminal. I’m a label, I’m anxiously attached, I’m an emotional eater. Like all of those labels, but if it’s a mechanism, oh, I just don’t do this. I just don’t tend to myself. I just don’t know how to do this. Then we can, there’s a solution to it. So I moved from there’s a label to there’s a mechanism. Like there’s a reason why we do this because we always make sense. We just need to figure out the pattern.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Okay, so when you work with your clients, I know you told me one of the things you’ve been working on is creating new tools. So are the tools that you’re creating, are they for this? Are they to solve these things that you’re talking about?

Brig Johnson: Yeah, but it’s, I’m working on a way that they can learn how to do it themselves. Like I don’t want to be the guru, like as people say. Like, I don’t want to be the guru. I, like my whole goal is for women to like take their authority back. And if I preach self-authority, self-identity and everything, and yet, I create stuff where they always have to come to me, then right, like where’s the authority? So one of the things I’m creating is a way for them to run like experiments. I call them N-of-1 experiments. In research, the N is the number of the sample size. And so…

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I love that. Yes. Oh my gosh.

Brig Johnson: The sample size is one. It’s one, you.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yep.

Brig Johnson: And that’s all that really matters because all the general, like this works for everybody, the sample size, but it never is 100%. No matter what study it is, it’s never 100%. So you can always fall out. But like, can you run N-of-1 experiments for yourself? And it all starts with capacity because so many of us think we have a discipline problem. So we like try to fix it with systems and discipline and like all this stuff. And I’m like, but like discipline is an output of a system with capacity, not an input you can add to one without it. Like you can’t input discipline when you don’t have the capacity to do it.

So many of us try to fix it by like, let me make a to-do list and whatever. When you have a capacity problem, you don’t have the capacity to even do any of that, right? And a lot of us don’t have the capacity because we’re taking on people’s shit that ain’t even ours. Like we’re still worried about what our boss said two years ago, or what am I wearing or, or does what about my hair or what does my spouse think or is he going to leave me or do my kids think I’m a good mother? Like all of that has taken up all our capacity, and then we’re trying to do this thing. We don’t have it.

So all of my experiments are to help women reduce the load so that they have increased capacity to do the thing they want to do because most of my clients come to me, they know they have a skill, like the woman on the cooking show, I know how to cook. They know they have a skill, but they keep falling apart and they can’t figure out why. Nine times out of 10, it’s a capacity issue, and it’s from one of those three roots. So I help them with that, and I go all into the metabolism thing because I’m a CRNA. I’m in anesthesia. So of course I’m going to look at…

Lindsay Dotzlaf: This really isn’t new work for you because as long as I, even years ago before we recorded ever, when I was coaching you, you introduced me to things like the, I don’t know if you were wearing it then, but I know you have a long time, but the ring, the like Oura Ring and the, just all of the body things that you were always kind of tracking and, and keeping track of.

Brig Johnson: I’ve always like wanted to merge them, and I didn’t know why because like there’s my anesthesia point and then there’s my coaching point and how they interface. And now I finally like, oh, they all interface because a woman who doesn’t know herself and is like stifled by everything, her cortisol is always up, then that’s insulin resistance. Insulin resistance, now we have inflammation. Now we have inflammation, now we have mitochondria.

Now we don’t have energy because our body can’t make it from a physiologic point of view. So it’s like, how does this work on a physiologic point of view? And if we only address mindset, then we didn’t fix or like repair what’s happening in the body. So it has to, everything works together. It’s a holistic point of view.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: And when you think about, you know, when you’re working with your clients and you know, like, okay, this is first a safety issue. Like, let’s kind of start there. Let’s start examining these things that you just talked about. Do you think we need to fix this first and then we move on to the other things? Or is it kind of like a, a dance of like a, a figuring it out together?

Brig Johnson: It’s a dance, for sure. There are some things that go in order. Like if there’s inflammation, we repair that first, and then we go to insulin, and then we look at metabolism. That’s from a bodily point of view. If it’s a mindset thing, I like I’ve already said, like we, we look at safety first, and then we go to like recalibrating. I don’t want to have to persuade you to change your thought. You can actually do the thing with your thought being the same because the thought in and of itself is just the thought. So my coaching isn’t to persuade you that your thinking wrong, right? So yeah, so I do it there.

But a lot of times, one of my biggest things is I say we don’t need fixing, we need understanding. If we can understand the roots, then there’s no fixing that needs because I understand why this thought keeps coming up because of this. Like all of it goes back to the root, and now I get to accept that as a part of me as opposed to spending my whole life resisting that, which takes so much energy. I don’t have the energy. That was planted 16 years ago. I’m sorry, or 60 years ago because I’m 62. Like it was planted. It’s not going anywhere. And so it’s more of acceptance. So we don’t need fixing. Most of us just need understanding, but we’ve never been told to understand ourselves. Like what is my pattern?

And so there is actually a tool that I have to help them see, oh, this is the patterns. Like, oh, and I actually have a tool where it’s like, what part do I need coaching on? Where do I need coaching? There’s six variables or things that I look at, like, and of those six, which one should I coach myself on today? Not tomorrow, not yesterday, but what’s holding me up today? And it’s just a diagnostic. They hit six buttons and then it’s like, this is where your coaching, and it gives them prompts and then it goes on to the experiment. Like, what experiment are you doing today? Like, so, and it helps them create their own experiments too once we get metabolism done. So yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: And then over time as they’re using that tool, then I’m guessing they start to recognize it before they don’t necessarily have to come back to that and use it every time. It’s like, oh, this is like last week when I, whatever, I don’t know exactly what is coming up for them, but…

Brig Johnson: Yeah, yeah. Totally. And for sure, there’s also a button that’s like, I need to take this deeper, and then that’s when you do all the, like, I need to run a model on it, or I need to do this, or I need to look at this, or however. But it doesn’t start from there. It starts from, where are, where am I? Where did this come from? Like I call it the return. So it’s returning to ourselves, like creating that safety.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I often say this to my clients. I hope they’re all listening because this is something that I talk about all the time where I think as coaches, we have these certain tools and certain skills, and where we can sometimes use them against ourselves in multiple ways.

But specifically in this way where it can be like because we have the awareness of, oh, I’m feeling very scared about this, or I’m whatever it is we become aware of because of maybe our self-coaching or because we’re just so good at recognizing our thoughts, then it can be like, oh, now I need to pause everything and like really excavate this fully out. And I always am just like, that’s just not quite how it works. You have to like move and notice and it’s all about the awareness, not necessarily like this is a problem that has to be fixed.

Brig Johnson: Right. It just needs to be understood. Like I think if we bring understanding to it, it’s like, of course, like you’re, you’re probably going to, that pattern is there. It’s probably going to be there for the rest of your life. So we can, like I have imposter syndrome. Okay. Yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: And what?

Brig Johnson: You live in a world where that is the soup that we all swim in. Like, of course you have imposter syndrome. This world wasn’t designed for you to feel very comfortable. I’m sorry. Like it wasn’t. Like have you seen the rules? Like, do you know the underlying thing? Like, it like, duh, your nervous system is reacting to a fact. It was designed that way. So you can make it wrong that your nervous system is saying this isn’t right, this isn’t fair, or you can agree with it. Yeah, and we’re still going to be here. Yeah, and we’re still going to show up.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I love that you said have you seen the rules?

Brig Johnson: Have you? Like, do you?

Lindsay Dotzlaf: If anybody listening didn’t get a copy of the rules, just let us know. Brig will happily send them to you. I am having this kind of meta moment right now.

Brig Johnson: I mean, like, come on. Like, we got a president who’s like, I’m like, okay, have you seen the rules?

Lindsay Dotzlaf: He did not get the rules. I don’t think.

Brig Johnson: It’s not fair.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I don’t think he knows about the rules. Okay, I’m having this meta moment, like laughing on the inside because as we’re talking right now, I just had this thought that we had almost this exact conversation in that episode that we recorded so long ago, just this very specific thing that we’re talking about.

But then we said that sometimes it’s like, oh, this is just part of my process. This is just like, oh, this is just the part where I have a little freak out, right? Like I, I’ve set the goal and I see what it is, and then I totally freak out and like, oh right, that’s just part of my process. And I think this is like the a similar concept, just a more advanced, more six years in version of…

Brig Johnson: Yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: …the way we were talking about it.

Brig Johnson: It’s there for a reason. We’re not crazy.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I just want to have literally everybody listening, just like, have a pause, take this in. Feels like it doesn’t matter how many times I say it or talk about it. Just so much coaching comes back to, like, but why are you being so hard on yourself?

Brig Johnson: I know. I had one, one client just the other day who was like, I’ve been doing emotional eating a lot. And I was like, okay. It’s like, and she was going on and on and she said, and I bought this course on emotional eating and da. And I was like, okay. All of that’s good. Not saying don’t, but I’m like, but what’s the end goal? Are we not supposed to have any labels? Like I’m not, I can’t be passive aggressive. I can’t be anxiously attached. I can’t be like, like what’s the goal here? Like, where’s the model? Is it like, where is normal? Like, is it June Cleaver? Like, what, what?

Are we supposed to have the pearls and the everything sunshiny? Like, where is the thing? And she was like, oh, I see it. I’m like, yeah, you’re getting pleasure from food. Okay. And like, where are you not getting pleasure? Where do we need to like, let’s coach it from there’s nothing wrong. Of course I am, and then go from there. Not, I’m an emotional eater. Oh my God, I can’t believe it. And I’m never going to lose 10 pounds because I’m an emotional eater. I’m like, you can lose 10 pounds and be an emotional eater. They can be the same.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Also, yes, we all are at some point.

Brig Johnson: Exactly. I’m like, yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yes.

Brig Johnson: Yes.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Okay, so one of the things that I am thinking about right now is one, one of the questions I just had written down that was a very general question is, what has changed about the way you coach? And I think that you have fully answered that. I think what I’m hearing is, it’s so funny thinking about your answers in the past are actually quite similar right now. They’re just like six years of experience later. And that’s really fun.

Brig Johnson: I love going from, I think this is it to I actually, like, have coached it. I actually have results from it now. I actually seen the work of this and like, I know this works and yeah, with a lot more confidence. So yeah, I love that.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I recently, because I love to torture myself, I was on Reddit looking up something about me because, for, for actually a very specific reason, this is not usually something I do, but I’m going to record like a redo of a podcast that I recorded before, and it’s that’s it’s going to touch on something there. So I had to go back and like remind myself like, what did I say?

And it was so fun because I got to see some new things. And one of the things that I just can’t get out of my mind because I just find this so interesting. This wasn’t just about me. This was like my name just happened to be in the thread, I think. But you know, there were other coaches too. Even Dielle, I think who’s just in there replying to everything. Bless her whole heart. So funny. And it was something like, it was something along the lines of, look at all these changes people are making.

And my thought when I read that, and this is like nothing, this actually has nothing to do with the Reddit post. It just has been on my mind so heavy because my thought when I read that is like, of course. Like we’re evolving. Everyone, if you’re not, like what are you doing? I think it is, would be almost impossible to work with clients, to see gaps that you’re missing, to see where your offer might shift to better serve them, to see all of the things and just think like, well, but here’s where I started. So I’m just going to stay right here.

And I think this is such a good, like hopefully, I really hope people have listened to the first interview and if not, if you’re a listener, like go back and listen because I think it will be very interesting for them to hear us. Just even the way we’re talking, the way you are clearly just like exuding this confidence and knowing of what you do and your tools and creating all the new things. So I’m just hoping that people have that experience because I am experiencing it like in this moment and it’s really fun.

Brig Johnson: Cool. I love it.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: One of the things that you said previously, we were talking about, like our kind of go-to, like mean kind of thoughts, the ones that just like always kind of come back. And you said, when I asked you what yours was or like one that shows up often for you, you said it was, oh, like you have to dim yourself.

Brig Johnson: Yeah, there she goes again. Who do you think you are?

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Who do you think you are? You’re too big for your britches. I don’t know if you said.

Brig Johnson: You think you all that. It’s still the same. All you had to do is say your number and like, I know exactly what it is because she’s always there. And that’s what I tell people. I’m like, you can try to like, oh, get good luck, get rid of it. Good luck, right? Like, no, she’s my partner.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yes.

Brig Johnson: Like she literally is here. I’m like, hey, baby girl, I know. I know you’re afraid. No, we’re going to own this. We’re here. We’re going to show up. Like I literally talk to her now. I’m like, come on, let’s go.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Get in this car. We’re going anyway.

Brig Johnson: Let’s go. Yeah. Yeah, we’re too much. And she’s looking for other people’s reaction. Like when I’m out, she’s looking for the eye roll or the person who going to like, she’s still looking and I’m like, yep, everybody’s not going to like us. That’s okay. And of course, I don’t want to be so off putting that I make people uncomfortable, but the intent now is not to make myself uncomfortable to make other people comfortable. Like their comfort doesn’t trump mine.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Mhm.

Brig Johnson: We can do win-wins. I’m all for win-wins, but it’s not at my expense anymore. My discomfort is not the price of your comfort anymore.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Mhm. Yeah. So what I think I’m hearing is it’s like that thought or when it comes, pops into your mind, it’s like, it can be there. We’re just one changing our relationship with it, not getting it to just magically transform into something else, but also it just doesn’t get to lead.

Brig Johnson: Yeah, it doesn’t. It doesn’t drive the car. It can be in a back seat saying, are we there yet? The entire ride, but it can never drive the car.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I have this visual that always comes to me even though my oldest daughter is now 16. When she was two, she would do this thing. She would really hate to get in the car. Even though she loved like going on adventures. She just sometimes, if it wasn’t what she wanted to do, you know, she just didn’t want to do it.

And she would throw these epic tantrums, but there would never be real tears. It would be like just loud and sometimes violent, kicking, you know, flailing. And I just always was like, it’s okay. Like we’re okay. We’re going to do this. We’re getting in the car. Everything is going to be fine. And that’s like the visual that I use when I feel that happening inside of me, when it when it feels very strong, I can feel my own kicking and screaming.

And it’s like this isn’t real. I mean, it’s real, but it’s not trauma that I need to stop and like triage in this moment. Nothing, like with her, like nothing was actually wrong. She wasn’t injured. She had everything she needed. She was just having just a meltdown. And I think for every all the listeners, like if they can find a visual like that, something like that where it’s like a situation that you’re in where it’s like, everything is actually fine. There’s just something in my environment that is trying hard to disrupt the fine.

Brig Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And the feeling comes with it, even if we know we’re doing that work, like allow for the feeling. Like yep and it’s, I’m like, I’m still, like, even though I know all this, the feeling is still going to be there. And I think for so many of my clients, it’s like that feeling they don’t like. It’s like my daughter when I was potty training her, she did not want to go number two. She did not like that feeling at all. Like she like, no, I don’t want that. Like she just could not stand that.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: This is turning into a parenting podcast because also mine. Yes. The older one, the youngest one, fine. Older one?

Brig Johnson: Right. All of the other ones were fine, but her, she did not like that feeling, but that feeling was part of the process. Like, and so I think for so many of us, it’s like, we’re just so uncomfortable with the feeling that we shut it down and we make the feeling wrong. And that’s why we always like, the feelings are not there to be fixed, they’re to be felt. It comes with it. It’s like, yeah, that you’re too much doesn’t come and it’s just a thought. There’s a lot of like my body is having a reaction to that. There’s a chemical reaction going on and I feel that and still talk to it and tend to it. Like…

Lindsay Dotzlaf: And over the last six years, I’ve had the privilege of seeing you talk on stages and teach rooms full of people and do amazing things. Does that thought come up in those situations? Is it very situational for you? Is it just kind of there all the time?

Brig Johnson: No, it always comes up when I’m on stage, especially when it’s not my stage. And I have yet to have my own stage as far as like, now my podcast, yeah. But it comes up a little bit on other people’s podcasts, especially because I’m always, like, I’m going to talk about shit, I’m going to talk about like, whatever, the president. Like I’m like, my thought is always like, oh God, this is not my podcast. Maybe her people are such and such.

It doesn’t come up as much, but it’s still comes up when I’m on like an actual live event and it’s not my stage because I’m kind of uncouth, on purpose. That’s just me. Like, not on purpose like whatever, but I’m like, yeah, I’m kind of a rebel. Like, and there’s no telling what’s going to come out of my mouth.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: That’s the best part about watching you though. And I think it like disarms the room in a way that’s like, oh, we’re just here being human. Oh, okay.

Brig Johnson: Yeah. If I can’t model self-acceptance, then what the hell am I? Like that’s, I’m a product of my product. Like, that’s the whole, that’s my whole product of self-acceptance, self-authority, self-trust. If I can’t model that, meaning I’m going to say shit wrong and yep, like and just be me, then what am I here for? I can’t be here under pretense, but I also know some people, it rubs the wrong way because I will say some stuff that rubs people the wrong way.

And if it’s not my stage, I don’t want to upset other people’s audience and then they have a feedback from it. So I think that’s more it than anything. But I still like, yep. But I’m here. They invited me here. So everybody who invites me knows, they know Brig.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Do you ever have a time where you’re like, oh, that actually was too much?

Brig Johnson: Oh yeah. Yeah, but usually that’s like with my friends or something, because like I’m like, yeah, literally. Or a lot of times it may be on a date, like I’m like, I didn’t need to reveal all like. He think I’m crazy now. I’m like just full out feminist when I’m on a date and I’m like, Brig, you like literally, you know. What are you trying to do, scare the man off?

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Okay. I would love to be a fly on a wall for real for this, for this. We just need video. This could be a reality show for sure.

Brig Johnson: I know. I was just talking to a guy the other day and he was like something and I was like, yeah, I’m getting ready to go run. And he was like, it’s hot. And I was like, yeah, I know. It’s 9 o’clock. It’s hot. It’s already 85 degrees. And he said, most women don’t like the heat. And I was like, oh, you mean most people don’t like the heat. I couldn’t help it.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I just imagine you getting your, your list out like, okay, next question. What do you know about emotional intelligence? Go.

Brig Johnson: I’m not like that. I’m not.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: No, I know you’re not, but I love the thought of it though. Okay, so I think this has led us to, like, you do have some shifts coming in your work. Would you like to talk about that here before we finish up?

Brig Johnson: I am. My dream has always been to have my own kind of membership coaching thing, but my, like my principles, how it is. And so my container is opening soon. It’s called The Unkaged Woman. And I haven’t the slightest idea when it’s going to come because I’m still working on these tools. These tools are so amazing. I’m so excited about them. They’re in a beta. People are loving them so far. And so I’m excited to like help clients make that transition. Like I did a series on, I called it like 61 years of savage truths.

And I call them bought lessons. All the lessons, all my IP and everything is from me like literally struggling like where I’m at. And I’m like, you can just buy my, like I paid the price so you don’t have to. Like bought lessons. And so I yeah, a community and a membership. And so I’m excited about that. And it’ll launch sometime between now and first quarter next year.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: It’ll launch at some point in the next however long. Yes. Building a membership is a lot of work. I learned the hard way. So I get it. I’m wondering who, who is it for? Obviously women?

Brig Johnson: Yes.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: All? Any women? Or what are like the…

Brig Johnson: All, any women. As long as they’re okay with it being centered for Black women, fine. Meaning like I’m a Black woman, so like I’m going to talk about our experiences. If that makes you uncomfortable, it’s probably not the place for you. If you understand that, you’re like, yeah, get it, then fine. And for the most part, I think most women are going to be fine with that because I think we have way more in common than we have that are different. We just have it at different varying degrees. So yeah, and I think in this climate, we so need to stick together.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Oh my goodness. I could not agree more.

Brig Johnson: Yeah, like so much. I mean, if they want to divide us fine, but it’s not going to work. Like, yeah, only way we’re going to do this is if we stick together.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: And is it for coaches, business owners?

Brig Johnson: No, it’s for anybody with an impossible dream. Like, I have a dream and it can be, I want a relationship. It can be, I want to lose 30, it doesn’t matter what your impossible is.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Because it all comes back to that what we were talking about, right? Like that safety that you are teaching them and then they can go whatever.

Brig Johnson: Right. They can do it because they have the capacity to do it. And so we just unlock the capacity and where they are. They take an assessment, they’ll know which area to go. It directs them and from there they know how to coach themselves because they have that daily diagnostic. All of it is just, it’s self-directed. So it’s like, here, and then they go for it.

And then we’ll coach. So of course I have to coach. So I’ll have a coaching aspect to it too. But a lot of self-coaching and that, because I want them to be able to use the tools 20 years from now when I’m not, maybe not doing this. I’m 62. I’ll probably be doing it at 80, but yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Probably 90 knowing you, honestly. You’ll only have two or three jobs left then.

Brig Johnson: All right. Yeah. But I’m excited about it and it takes a very holistic approach. So yeah, but I call it, it’s literally creating the environment so that impossible is possible. That’s it. And it’s a capacity issue.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: This just makes me so excited for you, for your clients, for all the people, all the people, all the listeners, everyone learning from you right now. This was an excellent choice to have you back. I hope everybody learned so much.

Brig Johnson: Thank you. Yeah. And follow me. I have a podcast too. Unkaged Woman.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yes, I was just going to say, let me pause you. If people want to come find you. So first, let’s talk about the membership. You said, I said, okay, can we talk about it? Do you have a, you know, and you were like, well, it’s not open yet, and I don’t necessarily have a link for it. But if people want to like be the first to know, where, how would they do that?

Brig Johnson: They get on my mailing list, my email list. It’s Reduce the Noise newsletter. They can find that going to, what is it? But I think it’s memo.brigjohnson.com.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Okay, how about this? We will link it in the show notes. So we think that’s what it is, but we’re going to double check and we’ll put it in the show notes just to be sure.

Brig Johnson: It’s memo dot. Yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Perfect. Okay, and you’re on, where else can they find you?

Brig Johnson: Instagram, Johnson Brig. Facebook, Brig Johnson. Yeah. Lindsay Dotzlaf: And you have a podcast?

Brig Johnson: Oh, Unkaged Woman. I have a podcast, The Unkaged Woman. Yeah. And for so many people, it’s like, do you, I do a lot of fitness on my IG. I just love using fitness as one of the doorways into unlocking your potential. So yeah.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: You’re just always on there. I love following you. You’re just always lifting heavy, heavy things, and every day I see you, I’m like, oh, I should go lift heavy things.

Brig Johnson: Some burpees, sled, something. What the hell am I doing? You want to talk about when the thoughts come, the thoughts are always on burpee number 50. Why am I here? You are too old. What are you doing? I’m like, what are you doing? You’re too old for this.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Listen, you’re on number 50 and you look like I probably would on like five. So I think you’re killing it. I love it. I love watching them. Well, thank you so much for being here. This was so fun, and I can’t wait to have you on the next iteration of my podcast.

Brig Johnson: I know. That’d be cool. Maybe after the membership opens and it’s like, okay, this is what we’re seeing.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yes, I love that. Let’s do it. I’ll see you there.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.