Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills episode 249.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey, coach. So today is actually a Part Two for this episode. So if you haven’t listened to last week’s episode, Episode 248, you’re going to want to go back and listen to that one first and start there. Today I’m having a conversation, a continued conversation, with Justine Beauregard, who is a sales expert, a sales coach, a sales mentor, and just really all around incredible at talking about sales, teaching sales, and helping her clients learn how to sell their coaching and their offers.

So again, this is Part Two. If you didn’t listen last week, you might want to go back and start there. If not, if you’re a rebel, then fine. You’re just going to dive in right in the middle. But I do recommend you go back. With no further ado, let’s continue the conversation with Justine.

I have a thing that I tell people often. You may have heard me say this, maybe you haven’t, but I’m just gonna tell you what it is. And then as a sales expert, I want to know your thoughts about it. If you think, if you like, agree, or if you’re like, oh, here’s how I would say it. I think the biggest reframe for most people that think that they don’t like sales, aren’t good at sales, whatever is when, I think, oh, oftentimes what they’re thinking is that sales are convincing someone to buy a thing from you by coaching.

And my reframe is like, no, it’s not. That’s not true. Some people aren’t going to be a good fit. Some people aren’t going to. No matter what you charge, they’re not going to like you, they’re not going to pay you for the thing. They’re not – whatever. Some people are just going to be a no. And so I think what sales are are helping people decide if they want to be a yes or want to be a no.

Justine Beauregard: Yeah. There’s many definitions. I tell people one of the hills that I will die on in a very dramatic fashion just meant to sound like that is sales is not convincing anyone to buy your thing. It is meeting the people who are already convinced that they’re ready for the result or that they want what it is that your offer provides.

And so that’s what marketing is. Marketing is pre-sales language. So when someone is reading all of your social media posts and consuming your podcast and getting your emails and all of the things, they’re getting inundated not with convincing copy, but with a reinforced vision of what’s next for them. Of like, you get it, you’ve been there, you understand me.There are solutions available that I like and so I’m more apt to move forward.

And so a lot of the sales call is helping someone make the decision. But really, like, a lot of your goal for marketing should be selling them on the result or selling them on the idea behind the offer, not the offer itself. Like if instead of selling them on, you know, my Booty Boot Camp for 30 days, you want to sell them on getting a really good booty. Right? And then it’s like, my Booty Boot Camp is the way to get it. But I’m not, like, selling you the bootcamp, because that’s not cute.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Because nobody really cares about a bootcamp. We don’t want that.

Justine Beauregard: I don’t care if it’s a boot camp. I don’t care if it’s a workshop. I don’t care if you’re a personal trainer. I don’t care if I have to go to the gym. And most of the offers out there are pretty comparable, like in terms of price and time frame. And, you know, the things people say are all going to be pretty similar. If you’re trying to get a better butt, you’re going to meet 25 people who can help you do that in a very similar time frame way and for the same price.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: There might be some outliers, but those probably aren’t going to work very well. Or they’re going to be, like, extreme. You could have surgery.

Justine Beauregard: Yeah. Either way. But you’re competing against a lot of similar things.

And so, yeah, you have like your way of doing it that’s special, and someone’s going to personally connect with you a little bit more. And there are all sorts of, like, nuanced things that impact the sales process.

But actually, there’s a really cool acronym in the FBI, and they teach persuasive communication methods, and it’s called the RICE method. And so people are motivated by four categories. R is rewards, and I is ideology, and C is coercion, and E is ego. And so you have to play to one of the four to be at your most persuasive.

And the least persuasive of all four methods is coercion. Because once you burn trust, somebody will do whatever. If, like, if you say to somebody, like, I have your child, and you have to do whatever, what, take a million dollars out of the bank. Like, you’re gonna do it, but you will never trust that method again. And it’s like, that’s why we don’t negotiate with terrorists, right?

And then the second least effective is reward. Because even though you’re getting something in return for what you’re doing, it’s externally motivated, so it’s not something that’s fully in your control, so it feels less reliable.

And then E is the second most effective because it plays to, like –

Lindsay Dotzlaf: What’s E again?

Justine Beauregard: The ego.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Ego. Yep. Okay.

Justine Beauregard: I’m going to stroke this person’s ego. You’re so smart. You know how to make great decisions. It’s going to feel good in the moment, but it also can be a little bit manipulative. And that’s kind of like the pushy factor that people run away from and it’s not great.

And then I is the first, which is ideology. And that’s based on a core belief system and value set. And that’s how I teach sales is like we’re going to anchor this in who we are. When I talk to people that I sell to because I work with really smart people, really talented, caring individuals, they really feel like this business was built to better people and the people around those people and create an ecosystem of like growth and development and change in the best ways.

And so when I meet people and I say certain words like, you’re an expert at what you do, you’re really fricking good at what you do. You’re so talented and smart and you’ve got a great offer, but you just don’t feel comfortable with how you sell it yet. They identify as an expert. They believe their offer is good and they can see what I’m saying.

When I go, every part of this, you’re missing one little puzzle piece and this whole thing comes together, it feels like that makes so much sense. Versus if I just stroke their ego or if I reward them with all the bonuses and inclusions and things that some people will buy on, or if I bully them and coerce them into believing my offer is the best one and making them feel terrible until they get to the point where they absolutely feel like they have no other way of doing it.

People will buy under all those circumstances, but the one in which they stay and the one in which they get the best results and I don’t have to do any more work once they’re sold. They are self motivated and driven and they do the work and they see the results and it’s easy. And then they tell people about it and they stay raving fans. That is rooted in ideology.

And I think we can learn a lot. And I do. I read a lot of books about non-business things like this, like the FBI’s persuasive methods. Because I want to know what’s the psychology behind these things and how does it actually work and show up. And why – why do people buy more on Black Friday and what’s the rush at Christmas time. And like all these different things like what is happening behind the scenes. And that’s all just, you know, the love of the craft, as you know.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I really love that. And actually it reminds me, I think I mentioned this on a call where you were the other day, but that book that I mentioned? For the Culture by Marcus Collins. It reminds me very much of that because that’s this whole – it’s all about like the culture, like enrolling people in a vision of who they are instead of they want the thing or the here’s like the benefits of buying the thing or, you know, whatever.

But just like here’s who you become when you make this choice or when you say yes to this. Because it will really like pull in your people and it will definitely not, for the most part pull in, yeah, we’ll repel people that aren’t right for the offer. And yeah, this aligns a lot with what you’re saying because it’s also, he talks a lot how it’s like the strongest, basically exactly what you just said. Once they’re in, they’re in. Like they’re just so sold. And then also makes them the best clients for the product. I mean, he’s talking about all different types of products, but same idea. So good.

Justine Beauregard: Yeah, I recommend to everyone, like, go outside of your own comfort bubble. A lot of the times, you know, I worked with a photographer who wanted to start getting into teaching other photographers how she became a multi six figure photographer.

And she’s like, I’m on the fence because I really love the way that you teach sales and I love your podcast and I love the things that you say and do. But there’s this other coach who works only with photographers, and I feel like she knows my niche and my industry so well that she could teach me a lot of things. It would just be a very easy thing to do.

She ultimately ended up working with me. And I think the reason why is because I had talked about, well, first I asked her, what’s the value in either one for you personally? Do you need somebody who you feel has been in your specific niche? Because I believe sales is the same no matter what industry.

And I’ve coached people. I’ve had over 700 clients across every industry. So like. And none of them have been different. They all feel like a special snowflake and none of them are. And ultimately, I think it was when we were chatting about books and examples of things. And we learn in a very similar way. And I was like, you know, I was really reading a book about real estate, and, like, this example came up, and she was like, see, this is why I think I need to work with you and see her selling herself on it.

And it was like because when you say that, it makes me feel like there are probably things that I would miss or things that I wouldn’t see because I’m so focused on what’s been done. And, like, part of why I think I need help is because I’ve been doing things the same way for so long in the same industry, and if I start to break out of that and think differently, everything’s gonna change. I didn’t sell her on me. I shared part of my ideology and belief system with her, and it resonated, and it could have gone the other way.

And that’s why it’s such a risk. Because she might have been like, why are you wasting time reading real estate books? Like, that doesn’t make any sense, you know? Like, I don’t see it that way at all. I think we should be reading books about our industry. And in that case, too, like, I trust my people find me. And I don’t have to try to be someone I’m not or pretend like, things are a certain way for someone to work with me. Like, you’re gonna find value in what I’m sharing because you’re my person and I don’t have to, like, work so hard for it.

And when you just show up that way, it’s like, if you’re not the one, then there’s five other people coming. And it’s the same thing with dating. Like, if you’re really liking somebody, the worst thing you can do is obsess over them and end all the dates. And I joke about this a lot because when I first met my husband, I think we’re similar in terms of, like, relationships, too.

Because you said, my husband convinced me to marry him, and it was, like, the best thing I ever did. The same thing happened for me, my husband. One night, we were dating for not too long, and he goes, I just want you to know I’m not seeing anybody else. And I looked in deeply into his eyes, and I went, I’m seeing everyone else. And he was like, well, I’ll wait. And I’m like, well, you’re going to be waiting for a very long time. And then we went ring shopping like a month later and got married six months after.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yeah. We have a lot in common. Yep. I was like, oh, no, that’s not what we’re doing. I responded differently than you did. I was like, oh, oh, no. That’s not it. That’s – we’re just having fun. It’s just a summer. No. To everything you just said.

Justine Beauregard: Just like, I’m non-committal. Ask me, like, what my favorite anything is, and I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t want to choose. He’s the only thing. Him and my kids.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Oh my gosh, this is so funny. Yes. I identify very strongly with that. That’s hilarious. And someone’s like, what’s your favorite color? I’m like, what, I don’t understand. People just have a favorite color? That’s just their favorite color all the time, every day? Day after day?

Justine Beauregard: Yeah. So I asked my kids, we do this thing called rapid-fire question round. And I’ll say, what’s your favorite color today? What’s your favorite number today? What’s your favorite animal today? Like, it’s very of the moment. And sometimes, my son will say, like, rainbow, because I can’t decide. And I’m like, I love that.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: That’s how I always answer. I’m like, sparkle. My kids are like, ugh, mom, it’s like blue or like green. I’m like, no, it sparkles.

Justine Beauregard: Yeah. Or if you’re a stickler, because my husband has a very logical brain type. And I’ll be like, you know what? White. Today it’s white. And he’s like, that’s not a color. That’s a shade. Or the absence of color. You know, he gets very technical about. I’m like, babe, they’re kids. Let it go.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Yep. Exactly. I feel like we could just talk and talk and talk about all the things. What have we not talked about when it comes to sales specifically that you think we need to?

Justine Beauregard: I mean, so many things.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: We already decided you’re going to be on again, so there’s that. But what’s like, one thing?

Justine Beauregard: So I’ll give a pro tip. Because I think that this is something I see come up a lot that people struggle with, which is the just checking in message of like, so now what? You’ve dropped the ball in the tennis court. It’s rolling around by the net somewhere and no one’s picking it up.

And so you decide to send back a message that says, “Hey, it’s me, just checking in. Wanted to see how things were going.” And it feels awkward because it is. Right? Because we already said that. If you feel like it’s awkward, then it is.

And so you send this and to me it’s just so self-serving. I’m checking in because I want to know, are you going to buy my thing? That’s pretty much all you’re saying. And so if you can’t, you know, draw the line in the sand by default every time and you come up against this situation where you’re like, okay, I let the ball drop, didn’t set the rule book in advance, I’m here now. Instead of saying just checking in, find something to attach to that’s going to be exciting for them to answer or helpful for them to hear to the point where they’d want to get back to you about it.

Because just checking in is going to get almost no response because they’re like, okay, so here we are. If I did want to talk to you, I would have already sent you an email. So not going to get back to you. But if you say, how’s it going with fill in the blank? So we talked about the Booty Boot Camp. That could be an example that we use. So we say, hey, how’s it going with building your glute muscles? Or how’s it going with the breakfast that you were going to prep that you had mentioned?

So like find a point in the conversation where you’re like, I doubt they would have figured this out by now or like without my help. That’s the thing you circle back on. Or maybe they had an objection or they had something that came up like, you know, I have to look at my budget or I’m not sure it’s the right time. And you didn’t overcome the objection on the call, you just kind of like let also that drop. So now there’s multiple balls rolling around and you don’t even know which one to pick up.

In that case you just ask, you know, and I don’t think a spouse asking, consulting with a spouse or a business partner is an objection. I think it’s just part of the process. But it can be used as an excuse, right? And so if you didn’t get that answered, it’s like, hey, did you talk to your partner? Curious what they said, you know, are you still feeling fill-in-the-blank? Like, are you still feeling as excited as you were? Are you still feeling like this is the best direction that you would go in?

And, like, use their words as much as you can. So when they’re saying, like, I gotta talk to my partner, but I’m really excited about the possibility of blah, blah, blah. Like, those are. Yes. Hang on to those words and then use those as a circle back. And if you’ve got nothing, if you were just like, I blacked out on that sales call, I have no idea what happened. I don’t remember any words. I don’t remember any context. I just remember they needed help and I didn’t do a good job.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Which is totally normal, by the way. Let’s just say, like, because when you’re new and you are just figuring it all out, you’ve never done maybe anything like it before, that’s a thing that can happen. It’s like when I used to very first guest on podcast, and I would get off and my husband would be like, how’d it go? And I’d be like, I blacked out. No idea.

Justine Beauregard: You’re like, don’t know.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Nope. No idea. Not even gonna think about it, actually. No. I’m actually just gonna pretend like that never happened. So that’s how it went.

Justine Beauregard: So it’s living out there and we’re not gonna talk about it. So if that happened to you and you totally blacked out and you have nothing to cling to, think about at a very high level, like, why would they reach out? Maybe even go back into, like, their booking form. Maybe you have something of an intake in your Calendly or whatever that says, what are you struggling with? Or what are you looking for?

Which, by the way, another pro tip. This is getting very meta now. But, like, another pro tip: on your intake form, instead of saying, like, what problem are you trying to solve? I like to frame that what are you the most excited about doing or achieving? Or what are you most looking forward to? And then have all the options of the outcomes that you can promise them. So for me.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: So, like, they have to pick one.

Justine Beauregard: Or multiples. So, like, on my intake form for, like, general, let’s chat about your sales goals and see if I’m a good fit. It says, like, what are you most excited about? Having a steady flow of perfect fit leads, having messaging that feels and sounds like me and lights people up to work with me. Having a sales process I can trust to do all the heavy lifting.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: They’re like, yes, all of these, please.

Justine Beauregard: All of the above. And it’s like they’re checking off, like, some people are just like, oh, my God, I need the messaging piece. Like, I’ve never been able to figure that out. And they’re really honing in on that. I’m like, ooh, that’s good. Now we can spend the whole conversation talking about messaging.

Or if they say all of the above, I’m like, sometimes that’s actually unqualifying them a little bit. Because I’m like, hmm, is everything broken? Are they a little scattered? Are they kind of just, oh, all of that sounds good, but I’m not really invested as much because I don’t have a specific thing.

Now, I’m not prejudging anyone coming into a call. It’s just like, that doesn’t automatically, if they say all of the above, a lot of people’s instinct is like, oh my gosh, perfect fit. They want all my stuff. But we need to use the time strategically to filter what exactly? There’s always one that takes precedence over the others. And so you kind of have to decide at that point.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I can be a little non-committal. So sometimes I answer stuff like that. But then if I actually get on the call with someone and then I explain why I answered that, right, they’re always like, oh, yeah, okay, I get it. Like, but where we would start is here. Like you said, there’s always the one place that I’m also aware of. It’s just sometimes hard for my brain to be like, this is the one thing right here.

Justine Beauregard: And that’s a beautiful moment on a sales conversation. Because when you get into a sales call and someone helps you get clear on a problem that you are unclear about, you now have a higher level of trust with them. And so it’s just like, you’re right. That does influence the other two. Like, that makes a lot of sense. You’re already putting together the puzzle pieces for them and they’re – imagine like, I love doing puzzles. I think you do too.

Like, I’m a, you do the border first. That’s like the border of the puzzle. You know, it’s like, before we start to solve for this problem, we need to, like, give it some constraints. So we need to pull everything in and, like, map it out. And how big is this thing? And like, where are the spots that are purple and where are the spots that are yellow? And we’re going to kind of group those pieces together and then we’re going to figure it out. And this puzzle will be so much easier than, like, here’s a pile of crap. Figure it out.

It’s like, that feels like you got to do a lot on that sales call. And now you start to feel pushy because you’re trying to do too many things in a very small, constrained amount of time. And so it feels like I have to rush through every single piece instead of, I understand you want to do all these things. You might not be able to decide. Let’s decide first, and then we can allow the conversation to flow from there.

But anyway, they fill out your intake. And you see that there’s something on there that like, or you just know, the majority of people come to me because of X, Y, or Z. Like, you’re known for certain things. They’re not going to come to you for everything. In that case, just thinking, like, what is sort of a standard set of valuable resources that I could share? Like, maybe it’s, I have content pillars, and I know that it’s probably one of these three things.

Maybe say, like, hey, I don’t know if it’s helpful. I love that framing. But you’re circling back instead of saying, just checking in. How’s it going?

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Just seeing if you decided yet.

Justine Beauregard: Yeah, I don’t know if it’s helpful, but I just released these couple of podcast episodes that speak to this topic that I thought you might find valuable. And if you want to hop on another call to chat about any of them or, like, circle back on any of these or dive deeper, I’d love to do that with you. And, you know, if not, no worries. Just let me know. Or, I’m looking forward to hearing from you.

There’s always going to be a line that makes them know I’m waiting for you to grab the ball. I’m not just sending these to you, and then that’s it again. And sometimes you could even say, even though it’s like, a little helpful thought, and I’d love to hear your thoughts. If I don’t hear back from you by Tuesday, I’ll circle back just to see if you had any.

And it’s like, you’re not necessarily – your sales cycle is going to be a lot longer in these situations. Better because it’s not forever. It’s teaching you the skill of drawing a line in the sand, being in integrity, following up, showing them who you are, getting practice.

Eventually you’ll get to the point where you’re gonna learn. Probably not the first time, probably not the second, but eventually you’ll be like, I really should throw a date in there. I really should throw a time in there. I really should just try to get them back on the call sooner. Like, I have clients where they’ll be like, oh, these people take forever to make a decision. And all I need to do is get them on the phone for 15 minutes. And I’m like, why don’t you just set the next appointment while you’re on the call?

They’re just like, I could do that. I’m like, yeah, of service. Like that is of service. So when they say, I gotta, I gotta run the numbers, I gotta figure this out. Because they’re working with, maybe they are a nonprofit and they have to go through a board and they can’t make any decisions themselves without people chiming in, stakeholders chiming in. Or maybe they’re a small business that is taking out a loan, or they have stakeholders that have influence or partners that they trust and they want to ask them or whatever.

Some of my clients are multimillion dollar companies that have a lot of layers of decision. And those are always the ones where you’re like, okay, so that sounds great. How about we set up a call for next Friday so that you can talk to them and then if we have to move the call, like, no worries, just reach out to me and let me know.

But now there’s transparency and there’s a date and they know you’re serious and they’re taking it more serious. And you can notice too, if they’re being evasive. We’ll just get to it some other time. don’t really have the time to do that right now. Or like, let’s just talk about it later. Now you can mark them as like, question mark. I don’t know if they’re actually qualified or interested. And you can push back on that as much as you’re comfortable. Like, would it be helpful if I sent you my calendar link? Again, that framing.

But it’s just – the whole point of it is not like, let me rush them, let me close them, let me do all the things to try to sell them in this moment. It’s like they need something. I have that something. The only way for them to get that is for me to do my job of making it the easiest, most fun game for them to play.

And if you think about it like the tennis court, it’s like – or like, a date. I’m inviting them on a date. If I’m like, tell me what I should order. Pay for my meal. That’s the worst date ever. Nobody would want to go out with you again. But if you’re like, okay, let me make sure it’s a place that you want to eat. Let me make sure there’s food on the menu that you would actually like. Let me make sure that it’s fun and a good experience for you and you don’t have to worry about what you order or how much it costs or anything like that. It’s like, that feels really good.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: My gosh. Yes. Your analogies are just like next level. They’re so good.

Justine Beauregard: I think about them a lot.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: The thing you just said, the one analogy I sometimes use is like, it would be like, if you went to the doctor. You want the doctor to be a professional, to know what they’re doing and to be able to say, like, oh, here’s exactly what’s going on. Here’s what’s going to fix it. Even if maybe there’s like, two options. Like, we could try this or we could try this, but they’re still very certain about it.

And sometimes I say this to my clients where I’m like, your energy is a little bit like, you’re the doctor and someone’s coming to you. And then you’re like, well, I don’t know. What do you think? Like, I don’t think you would want your doctor to say that, right? You’d want them to be like, I know what I’m doing. I’m good at my job. Here’s how I can help you.

I can prescribe you this medicine. I could send you to the physical therapist. We could start with one or the other or both. Right. Like, even if there are options, it’s like, just being so certain about it will help the other person be like, oh, okay. Like, they just are, will be so much more relaxed than like, oh, you’re taking care of me. Thank you. This is amazing.

Justine Beauregard: Well, I think also, giving people a choice with context is so important.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: With context, yes. Here’s why, like, going to a physical therapist might be better in this situation. Here’s what an antibiotic might do or whatever. I don’t know if those two things would go together. Whatever. Here’s what the anti-inflammatory whatever would do. Here’s how they’d be really amazing together.

Justine Beauregard: Yeah. And just saying like, okay, I’m trained. I know a certain amount of things. I’m going to diagnose you. That’s prescriptive selling. It’s actually a method of selling. Like, you are a doctor and you are prescribing.

And I use the example of, like, a cardiac event. So you go into the doctor, you’re like, oh, my chest hurts so bad. I’m dying. Everything is falling apart. And it could be a panic attack, or it could be a heart attack, or it could be, like, cardiac failure or, like, some other big thing. And so, like, I’m not going to for every single person who comes into my office, I’m not going to get out the VFib paddles and start, like, clear. Everybody go. Like, we’ve got to save this person’s life.

It’s like, they could just be. It could be something else. And so we need to know how severe is this and where is the root cause of it. We can’t just, like, start treating people. And people want the treatment quickly, right? Because we live in a culture of rapid results and Amazon shipping you one-day whatever to your door. And it’s like, we’re used to and programmed to that lifestyle. And so if we don’t get answers in that moment, there’s a little bit of awkwardness because the person wants it. We want to give it to them.

But a doctor will say, like, I’m gonna, figure out what it is, my best idea of what that is. And then I’m going to ask for your opinion based on how we treat it, to your point. We could put you on a muscle relaxer or you could do physical therapy for six weeks. Now, there’s pros and cons to both. You can use them together. You’re ultimately going to have to decide how you want to move forward with this.

Or even more broadly, it’s like, you have cancer and you don’t necessarily have to opt into chemo and radiation and all sorts of things. There’s alternatives that you could take and things that have worked and things that haven’t worked. And it’s not always up to the doctor to make those choices for you.

But you have to know you have cancer that you cannot diagnose from watching lots of Grey’s Anatomy. You don’t get to decide, this is what it is. Again, it’s the puzzle. They put it in frame. You have constraints, you know what you’re working with, and now you get to decide. Do I want to do the purple section first or the yellow section first? Do I want to start in the corner? Do I want to start in the middle? Like, how you do.

It’s the same thing as the way that I teach sales. The kitchen. You get all the drawers, you get. You get all the silverware. You get to decide where to put it. Structure creates freedom. You have all the things, but you can’t just be like, okay, so what do you think your chest pain is? And they’re like, I think it’s clearly a heart attack.

It’s just a panic attack, because that person is prone to panic attacks and everything they think is a heart attack. And so obviously they’re gonna say that. You’re going to be treated for the wrong things. So you want the expert guiding you to the “what it is picture” but then they’re putting you at choice with what you’re going to do about it.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: That’s so great. Okay. One last quick question that I like to ask, I’ve been asking. I’ve been trying to remember to ask most people I interview, sometimes I forget. When it comes to the work you do, what is something that you yourself are still working on related to your work?

And for context, sometimes my clients are like, I can’t coach on this thing because I’m still working on this. And I’m always like, no, that’s, I don’t think there’s ever like a finish line where it’s just like, oh, I’m complete. And now I can go help other people with this thing. And so I’m just curious of is there anything like recently that I’m working on this thing and it like kind of falls in your wheelhouse of things you teach?

Justine Beauregard: Well, my immediate response and when you asked that question was like, can it be everything? I’m working on everything all the time. And having young kids, I think puts it in perspective as well. Because my son and I were just having a conversation the other day and I said, do you know what my biggest goal is every single day when I wake up? And he’s like, I don’t know, to be a great mom or something. And I was like, no. I mean, yes and.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: No, wrong.

Justine Beauregard: It is to be the dumbest person in the room, always. Like, I love to surround myself with people who are smarter than me, who know more than me, who are better at me than things because it helps me raise my game and I want to feel like the dumbest person in the room and always be learning. And so when it’s like, what are you working on? It’s like, everything. I could be better at everything. And the more I learn and the more I know and the more I do, the more I realize, I have so much more to learn and so much more to do and so much better to get.

So it’s everything, but if there’s one thing that really kind of speaks to me, and probably just because I’m with you now, and we were in a room the other day of experts and people who are really good at what they do. And this question was posed to me and I thought, that’s so interesting.

It is the thought of am I just a likable expert or am I a must-hire? And that’s the thing that I’m like, damn. That’s a good question because I am such a likable expert. I know that about myself. Mhm. But that must-hire energy. I do have a little bit of, you know, judgment and preconceived notions about must-hires being very aggressive in their energy and showing up with a better-than kind of mindset. And that’s not me at all.

And I want to be at the peer level with a lot of people, but I realized I’m also not. And I’ve been having the thoughts lately, having had my business for 10 years plus and working with so many people and having so many people who are newer, even just by a few years, like, I never had to deal with that, or, and having clients that have surpassed me in income. And like learning from them and being inspired by the things that, you know, seeing everything that they’ve been able to achieve and accomplish and it’s like, wow, you know, that also puts things in perspective.

It’s just like there is a different energy when you show up as a must-hire that I am sort of inconsistent with. So I’ll get there and then I’ll kind of back off and then get there again.

And I think what I would love to work on more is how do I live there in a way that feels good to me, which kind of aligns with I think anything can work, but it has to work for you. And I don’t look at it like I’m bad at that or I, you know, I am bad at that. But that’s not where I dwell. It’s like I’m looking at it going, what’s the way that feels good for me? And I haven’t found it yet. I haven’t locked in on it. I’ve dabbled, I’ve played, I’ve found some ways, but they’re not quite right. So that’s kind of the space that I’m playing in a little bit more lately.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I love that. That could be a perfect setup for our next call. We could just dive into that and talk so much about it.

Justine Beauregard: Like, where are you at with that? I’m like, don’t ask me. Let’s schedule that one a little ways out.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: And what I shared with you when you asked we were like, listen to this question, this is so good. I was like, ooh, yeah, I also very much relate to that. I get it. I do think that that’s something I’m always also working on. How can I be both? Or how can I – what’s my way of being the must-hire that doesn’t make me not the likable expert, right? Like, does it have to be one or the other? That’s kind of what I’m sitting with right now. So yeah, it could be fun to come circle back to that and be like, okay, let’s talk about it. How’s it going?

Justine Beauregard: Which is so funny because as your client, I have thoughts. You say must hire and I’m like, what? You totally have that energy. Like, the way we see ourselves. And I think it’s funny. When I first started working with you, my big question was like, how do I coach myself through things?

Because I am so good at giving everyone the guidance that I need. And then turning it back on myself, I’m like, what am I doing? I say must-hire and I’m like, I’m just not there. But you’re just like, I know, I know, I need to work on that too. And I’m like, what? Are you kidding? Like, I could list off 10 reasons why you’re the must-hire right now. Like, it’s just so different when it’s not you. It’s very interesting.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: It’s actually why I like to ask this question when I’ve tried to like ask it at the end of each interview. Because I think it’s just important to hear people say like, of course I’m still working on this or I’m like working on it over here or I’m doing this specific thing. It’s just good for people to hear, especially those that are newer to owning a business or newer in the industry or whatever, just to be like, oh, right. It’s like always a work in progress and that’s okay. Nothing wrong with that.

Justine Beauregard: Yeah. It sort of comes back to that whole thought of, I should already know this, or I should already be good at this. Whenever I hear people say, oh, I’m new to this or I’ve never done that before. I’m like, well, it’s just a different way to package it, right? But you’re not new at this. You’re not new at making decisions. You’re not new at selling ideas to people. You sold your partner on what you had for dinner last night and you sold yourself on what top to buy at the store. Like, you do it all the time, but it’s a different application of the same skills.

And so when we start a business, and I hear a lot of people in The Coach Lab say this specifically, but they’ll be like, oh, I’m just a baby coach, like a brand new, just got into this and I have no experience. And I’m just like, but you don’t just start a business with no background or experience in that thing. Probably been doing a version of this for a really long time. And they’re like, oh, I really have.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: So many free clients and I’ve actually been doing this for like two years. And I’m always like, what? What is happening? Let’s just no more baby coach. That’s not what’s happening. You’re not that anymore.

Justine Beauregard: Yeah. I’ve had 75 free clients and you’re like, maybe you should have charged after the fifth one.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: Exactly. Okay, my friend, thank you so much. This was so fun. And again, you’ll definitely have to come back on again. Before we go, if people want to find you, plug all the things, where can they find you? Where do you hang out? What do you have going on?

Justine Beauregard: Okay. So my name, justinebeauregard.com has all my stuff on it. And if you do justinebeauregard.com/training, you will get a free series that walks you through how to stand out and sell like the expert you are, which is the core of what I teach.

And then I also have a podcast that is called Why You Hate Sales, and it is just whyyouhatesales.com. So it’s very easy to find and all words everyone can spell, hopefully.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: And if not, we will link it in the show notes, so no problem if you can’t.

Justine Beauregard: Great. That too. And that show is really about not hating sales, obviously, because that’s the opposite of what I stand for. But it’s figuring out the reasons why you hate sales, things you’ve been told, beliefs that you’ve had, ways of seeing things that people have brainwashed you into and unwriting those so that you can start to develop a relationship with sales that just at first gets back to neutral, if you’re in a really negative place, and then maybe shifts you into more of the positive energy, like, oh.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I love sales.

Justine Beauregard: Maybe I could love this. Maybe I could really enjoy myself. Maybe I could see this as an extension of my work and how I support people and that all feels really good too.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: All right, well, thank you again, thank you so much. We will have you back on, and so glad you could be here today.

Thank you so much for listening in this week. I hope you really loved this two-part series with Justine Beauregard. I hope you took a lot of notes and took a lot away from the conversation and the way she thinks about selling.

And if you want to shoot me a DM, you could find me on Instagram. I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can also review and let me know what you loved about it or didn’t. Hopefully that’s not the case in your review.

And don’t forget to check out Coach Unfiltered, which is happening right now. And you can just join and be instantly in on the behind-the-scenes action and get to see all of the changes I’m making in my business and just the fully transparent behind-the-scenes experience where you just kind of get to be in on all of it, get to be a little voyeur and just watch all the things. We’re having a lot of fun in there and I would love to see you, would love for you to join. All right, see you again next week. Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.