Hi, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills, episode 13.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hi, loves. I’m so glad you’re here today. I have something super-fun for you. I will be interviewing one of my friends and clients, Jamee Andelin. She’s amazing.

We talk about some tough stuff. We talked about how she picked a niche, how she made adjustments to her schedule over the last year when the pandemic hit and she had to shuffle some things around in her business, how she made it all work. And we even talk about, when it comes to hiring a coach, if it’s better to have a coach that shares your same ethnicity, beliefs, religion, family dynamics, or not. I hope you enjoy. It gets pretty good.

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Lindsay: Hello.

Jamee: Hi.

Lindsay: Can you please first just introduce yourself. Who are you? What do you do?

Jamee: Hi. I’m Jamee Andelin and I’m a life coach. I help women have thriving marriages.

Lindsay: I love it. How long have you been a coach and how long have you had this niche?

Jamee: I have been a full-on paid life coach since April 2019. And I’ve had this niche for, well, I’ll say I’ve had this niche since April 2019, but I just barely realized it about a week ago.

Lindsay: I love it. And I was sharing with you before we got started that I have always known this was your niche and just had to wait for you to find it and fully step into it.

Jamee: Yes, I always said I help women say yes to themselves, which meant, in my mind, it was kind of like whatever they wanted to say yes to, I would help them get there, whether that was weight loss or a certain goal or making more money or starting a business or something like that. Or even their marriages.

But as I’ve been working with you in Coaching Masters, it’s become really clear, really clear that I help women say yes to falling in love with their husbands again. So, amazing.

Lindsay: And what made you decide, like really decide to go all in on this niche?

Jamee: The work that we did together, it was really surprising because when I decided to start working in Coaching Masters with you and all the amazing coaches that are in there, I really was excited to really hone in on my coaching skills. And it was surprising to me how, when I did that, I was really coaching myself a lot and getting really clear on my own self-concept and what was important to me, and then bringing stuff that my clients were going through to you and to our weekly sessions in Coaching Masters.

And as I was doing this and doing the work that you gave us on being in our clients’ minds and spending more time in their mind, like, I was looking through all my journals that I had from the past six months of us working together and it was just really clear when I looked back how obvious it is who my client is.

And, of course, most of my clients have become those clients. When we started working together, I still had a lot of clients who were working on different things. And as I’ve evolved and kind of stepped into who I am as a coach, my consultations all started being more about, you know, women struggling in their marriages and wanting help. And it’s their most important relationship and they really want that to say they’ve done everything they could have done to save their marriages. And all of that together just made me see that it was really clear. But it was also a decision that I had to make.

I really did just have to look at all that information and then say, “Okay, is this something I want to do?” And when I asked myself that question, I just started balling because I could see how important it is for me to help this woman and my love for her is so immensely strong that – when I say this woman, I’m talking about every woman that fits in that niche.

My love for her was so strong and my motivation to keep me going no matter what, I can’t deny. I’m like, I will do this forever. And to me, that was just so obvious, like, well of course, then that is who you help.

Lindsay: Yes, when you are working on something like that and you just break down in tears sometimes, that’s a really good indicator of, “I think I’m on the right path.”

Jamee: Yeah, it was a culmination of so much love for them, but also this release, like, I made a decision. It just feels so good to be all in on a decision. And, of course, I started having things come up for me like, “Oh, but do women really want to save their marriages?” you know, all those thoughts and questions that come up.

Lindsay: Our brains are so crazy sometimes, right?

Jamee: I know, yes. I was laughing. But then, because I made that decision, I could answer those questions really powerfully instead of being stuck in this confusion or this place of, like, “I don’t know. There are some women who don’t,” you know. Well, of course there are. But my client wants to. My client wants to say she has done everything she could. And so, it’s just so easy to answer these questions, which I’m like, okay, so good.

Lindsay: I love that. So, I’m always curious about this and you can go into this as much or as little as you want. But I love to think about people’s niches and why they choose them and why they feel drawn to them. And so, I’m just curious if you, is this a scenario that you’ve had to do a lot of work on yourself or have you just always had the easiest ever marriage and it just is natural?

Jamee: Oh, my first reaction is to answer you very sarcastically and say, “Oh, my marriage has been perfect…”

Lindsay: As has mine. I get it…

Jamee: Yeah, I’ve had to do a lot of work in my marriage. Here’s where my brain likes to argue with me. Because my marriage is the most important relationship to me, I have always been willing to spend all the money to do anything I can, to try any form of help; therapy, coaching, vacations. Whatever it is that I think is going to work, I’m willing to do that.

And so, because of that, I don’t think my marriage ever got to the point where I had to decide, like, am I going to stay or go? But I do understand, like, all the challenges that come up, all the struggles that come up, and the ability we have to decide in the struggle, are we going to do something about that or not?

And I’ve also learned a lot of tools that I implement in my marriage just because I’ve worked through a lot of challenges and struggles. And not the same thing that everybody else has worked through, but I’ve been able to recognize the mindset behind the struggles and the challenges. And that to me is – that’s what I coach on all day long, is the mindset behind why people are doing what they’re doing, why people’s spouses are doing what they’re doing. And that’s what I’m really clear on. So, does that answer your question?

Lindsay: Yeah, I think actually it’s perfect and it leads me into another question, which is when do you think is a good time for someone to hire a marriage coach?

Jamee: The moment they realize that their marriage is important.

Lindsay: That’s so, so good.

Jamee: That’s it. Not because you’re broken.

Lindsay: Yeah, I think I’ve told you this but I have worked with a marriage coach, the amazing Maggie Reyes. And it’s always interesting, the reaction that I get when I tell maybe like my friends or people that aren’t coaches, even some coaches, they’re like, “Oh, I didn’t know you had problems in your marriage.” And I’m like, “Oh, yeah, I don’t.”

Jamee: And I would like to not have any…

Lindsay: But it’s probably one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. Why do you think – what are your thoughts about that and what, like you said, this is a newer development, but you have coached a lot of people on their marriages. When do you find that people come to you, or your ideal clients, what are they thinking about their marriage right now? That was like a 10-part question. Sorry.

Jamee: Yeah, I love it. Okay, this is the most important relationship I have. And the marriage is thriving. Literally everything else in my life is figureoutable. And I don’t know if figureoutable is a word but I use that all the time because I think we understand what that means.

Like, if your kids are going through something and your marriage is thriving, it’s great. You work as a team, you can discipline your kids, you’re not arguing over anything. If your marriage is thriving and your husband gets laid off, you know you’re going to figure it out. You know everything’s going to be okay. If your marriage is thriving and your wife gets really, really sick, you know it’s going to be okay. You’re going to handle everything.

And I’ve been through all of these situations and so the thriving marriage is what makes everything else in life figureoutable. And this is a belief I have. Life is hard. And sometimes, marriage gets the blame. I actually don’t think that marriage is hard. I think life is and people like to blame marriage and make marriage hard.

Lindsay: You just blew my whole mind. That is so good.

Jamee: Yeah, so really, what I’m helping people do is learn how to live life – I show them how, how to live life really well – and then marriage just isn’t hard anymore and you get to just enjoy yourself. You’re just there to enjoy and to love. It’s not supposed to be hard.

Lindsay: So, what you’re saying is you love your husband every second of every day. He never gets on your nerves. It’s all perfect.

Jamee: Of course… No, what I’m saying is love looks very different, and I think people judge it. They think love is always butterflies in your tummy and always wanting to have sex and all the things. And I say sometimes love means no. Sometimes, love means I’m going to go away for the weekend because I can tell that you’re driving me crazy and I’m going to need a break. That’s love, love for me right now.

And then I also believe that’s what’s good for me us good for us. And so, when I start to notice that I myself am getting annoyed and I’m getting snappy at my husband and everything he says is driving me crazy or everything he does or doesn’t do is driving me crazy, I’m like, it’s time to check in with me. What am I neglecting? What am I not paying attention to? I’m going to go take care of me. Love for me right now is going to be really good for us.

Lindsay: Oh, I love that. That is really such a good thought to think about it like that, like I need to check in with me instead of tell my spouse, my partner, my significant other that they need to be better. Instead, I’m going to check in with myself and just see what’s happening, what’s missing, what am I neglecting. So good.

Jamee: Yes, and I made the decision a long time ago to not try to change my husband. Like, I was like, I’m so powerful that I can transform my whole marriage just myself. I don’t need him to do anything. I’m like, “You just stay there. I’ll figure this out.”

Lindsay: So, and I think I saw on a post of yours recently that maybe you just did this, maybe you are now or you have been somewhere by yourself for the weekend.

Jamee: Yeah, I just went away for the weekend. And it was really funny. This is a funny story. So, I was feeling like – I noticed I wasn’t wanting to go on my morning hikes anymore. I wasn’t dancing while I was making dinner. Everything just felt really obligatory in my life and I felt, like, undernourished. My soul felt undernourished.

And so, I just knew I needed to go do something for myself. And the first thing that came to my mind was, what if I just go get a hotel and just be by myself for the weekend? And so, I got that all booked and, like, a couple hours into it I texted my husband and I was like, “Hey, I really miss you. Why don’t you come visit me at the hotel?” And he said, “Sorry, I can’t. I’m having too much fun with the kids.”

Lindsay: That is incredible.

Jamee: I know. And I was like, “Oh man.” But he totally called me on it because he knows, like, “Oh no, she needs this time to herself. If I come, she’s going to, the next day, say, I never got my time to myself.”

Lindsay: He is smart.

Jamee: I know, he’s so smart. But he needed that time with the kids. I needed my time. And we both honored that, and it didn’t mean that we were going down a wrong road. And I tell myself, I’m safe to miss you. Missing somebody doesn’t mean that you’re doing something wrong. It just means that you love someone and it’s okay to miss them and get your time to yourself.

Lindsay: Yeah, well what’s the alternative, right, not missing them at all? That’s probably not the best alternative in a marriage, right? I’m not saying that I live to miss my husband when I travel, which hasn’t happened in almost a year, by the way, so a weekend at a hotel by myself sounds pretty incredible right now.

Actually, my husband and I were just talking about this the other day. There aren’t really any hotels near me that are amazing, especially since we just moved into a new house and I’m just really in love with it right now. So, it’s one of those, like, to really get a great hotel, it wouldn’t be just a short trip for the weekend. But you live in a pretty great area and I’m sure that there are lots of amazing hotels by you.

Jamee: Yeah, totally. You could have your own little staycation kind of. It’s very nice. But yeah, I also realized that, because I’m a coach, I realized that missing him wasn’t all about missing him. It was about me avoiding some uncomfortable things that were coming up. And it would have just been so much better if my husband could have come and entertained me and, you know, had fun with me throughout the night and the next day.

And so, when he said, “Sorry, I can’t,” I was like, “Alright, I’m going to face some of the stuff that’s coming up for me, process some of these emotions,” and then it turned into a big celebration of everything that I had created in my business up until that moment. and my brain wanted to hurry and move to the next finish line and I just made it stay there. I just made it stay there and celebrate.

And if my husband would have come, I wouldn’t have allowed myself to do that. Because I allowed myself to celebrate me and every step I made, I can see how I created what I created. Which means now that I’m home and ready to start going forward, I know exactly what I’m going to do.

Lindsay: That’s so great. I love you just giving that example to all of the listeners. You know this about me. I think it’s so important, especially for those of us that aren’t the best at celebrating or aren’t the best at, you know, saying this is where I am right now and it’s perfect, before we move onto the next big thing. It’s something you and I have talked about a lot, just the importance of this is where I am, this is amazing. I hit my goal. I’m going to celebrate. It’s not just always about, “And what’s the next huge thing that I’m going to work on?”

Jamee: So true. And I don’t know if this is actually scientifically proven, but it’s like, if you don’t allow your brain to celebrate, it doesn’t create like a memory in your body. So, the celebration creates emotions in your body and you allow yourself to stay there and hold it, and it’s like, it creates the memory and then you can remember exactly how you created something.

And I’m not going to say that now you’re just going to repeat the same process over and over again, but when you have that memory of just a basic idea of, “Well I know how I created this client and I know how I created tis client,” you know exactly what the next step is you’re going to take and that memory is so very helpful. And I resist it. I resist the celebration because I’m normal. It’s really hard for me to hold the good feelings, you know. So, I force it.

Lindsay: I think about this actually a lot. I wasn’t planning on talking about this, but let’s just go here for a second because I think this is really good for every listener to hear, whether they have zero clients or 500 clients. I remember signing m first client like it was yesterday. Remember how happy I was? I was elated. I couldn’t believe it.

And I remember signing my first five clients. And then, after that, it just gets a little blurry. And it’s like, I remember making my first money. I remember making my first $100,000. And I remember just the huge celebration. And then after that. So, you have to always remind your brain.

And I love that you said, if you don’t stop and celebrate it and create that memory in your body – I have never thought of it like that. But I can go back to exactly even where I was like sitting when I signed my first client. It was over the phone. I was sitting on my bed avoiding my family because it was the evening. And I can remember it like it was yesterday.

But my 200^th client, however many, I don’t have those memories. That’s not bad. We don’t have to celebrate huge and remember every single one. But I think you’re exactly right. I think we get used to, like, now this is just normal, I’m just not going to celebrate these things anymore.

Jamee: I know.

Lindsay: Do you think that’s similar to what we do in marriages also?

Jamee: Oh my gosh, yes. And here’s a really good example, and it’s so vulnerable that I’ll share it with you. But I had an experience where I had a friend come and visit me over New Year’s and she is going through a divorce, so recently single and it was me and her and my husband all hanging out. And it hit me all of a sudden that my best friend is now single and she’s hanging out with me and my husband and there’s this totally different dynamic now.

And I was like, how do I feel about this single woman hanging out with me and my husband? And I had a bit of a little freak out because I was thinking very low of my husband and my best friend that something inappropriate might start happening between them. Because it does in the world, it’s totally possible. But I was…

Lindsay: Let’s be clear, it’s not a thing that happens between them. It is a thig that happens in the world.

Jamee: Exactly, it’s a thing that happens in the world. And I was just like having this very human moment where I was like, oh my gosh, going down this road of, like, what might happen. And then I started feeling really guilty because I was like, “Oh no, have this amazing marriage and my best friend is going through a divorce and this is just so hard,” and started feeling very guilty and I realized in that moment, the only reason I’m feeling guilty is because I am not noticing all the things I have done to create an amazing marriage for myself, all the work I have done, all the coaches I have hired, all the courses I have taken, all the vacations I went on, all the little decisions I made every day, all the arguments I decided not to have, all the arguments I decided to have in a very smart, healthy way.

Like, everything that I have done, I was discrediting all of it. And so, I made a list of 30 reasons why my marriage is so amazing and then all the guilt went away because I was like, I have done a lot of work, there is nothing to feel guilty about. So, does that answer your question?

Lindsay: Yeah, I think it’s amazing that you share that because I think, first of all, some people would say, like, I would never tell someone my inner most thoughts. But that’s just such a good example of our human brains loving to point out any possible perceived, even if not real, danger. Like, in this moment when I’m having a great time, mu brain is going to say, “Hey, alert, here’s this thing that happens in the world or that I’ve seen in movies.” Our brain loves to just go there, all of us, not just you.

Jamee: Of course, it’s like an irrational fear. And I was telling myself, everybody has irrational fears. Everybody does. Just because you’re a coach, doesn’t mean all of a sudden now you don’t have irrational fears and things that you’ve seen in the world don’t pop into your mind as an option that might happen. Thank you for pointing that out, yeah.

Lindsay: I think it’s one of my favorite things as a coach to sometimes point out the extremes that our brain goes to and say, “Hey, this is just normal.” This is just congratulations, you’re a human. This is just your brain being a brain. Sometimes, yes, we’re going to stop, we’re going to coach on it, like this is really something. And sometimes, it’s like, “Okay, thank you, brain. And now we’re just moving on because this isn’t an actual fear. It’s not an actual thing that I need to spend any time thinking about.”

Jamee: Well, and it’s not even really a problem because I know what to do when that comes up for me, because I can just solve it right now, like just get that piece of paper out and write 30 reasons why my marriage is amazing, how I made my marriage amazing. That is such an amazing tool that I’ve developed. And I actually don’t feel like I have that – I don’t really have a lot of problems because when that kind of stuff comes up, I just know what to do. I’ve just got to make the time for it and do it, and it’s great.

Lindsay: Do you ever have times when you think back to when, for example, I love to thin back to maybe in my 20s when my brain was really a lot more dramatic than it is now. And just be curious about how crazy would it be if I had had the tools that I have now then?

Now, I would not change anything about my life. I don’t want anything to be different, so I wouldn’t go back and do it differently. I just think it’s so interesting to, you know, I think when we’re younger and – we can talk about this in a minute – but you have kids that are getting closer to that age. Those brains are probably a lot more dramatic. I think part of it has to do with age.

But when I was in college, I mean, I would always think of, like, what is the worst case that’s going to happen right now? And my brain would just go there. Do you ever think about that? For you when you were younger, or even – I don’t know how much you want to share about your kids, but thinking about your daughter being close to college age, how do you think about that and do you have memories of it for yourself?

Jamee: Oh, of course. Yeah, I was very, very dramatic. I’m so dramatic, Lindsay. But like, yeah, I was dramatic but without the tools. And now, I’m dramatic with the tools. So, I still have my scatter brain, I still have all the drama, I still have all the irrational fears. I still have all of that that comes up.

You always say to me too, separate the circumstance. And I’m like, “Oh yeah.” Because I have ADHD so my brain is like, you know, all the time. And you are so good at teaching me to separate everything out. But that’s exactly it. I have my daughter who is, when I look at her I’m like, my gosh, it reminds me of me at that age and trying to make decisions from this place of confusion or basing everything off of the past.

She’s like, “How am I going to make money? I’ve never had a job.” You know, and I’m like, “You’re going to go get a job, babe. It’s okay. You’re going to work it out.” But just watching people – this is so funny – just walking around just being human without any coaching tools. It’s kind of funny. But my daughter is very receptive to coaching and she actually has a coach, and so that’s super-helpful.

Lindsay: Oh, I love that.

Jamee: Yes, it’s super-helpful to be like, it’s not all on me to try to help her navigate this. I get to – and you know this – I get to take the time to process my emotions when I’m struggling with things she’s doing that are maybe different than what I wanted her to. And I get to make the decision of what my opinion is. And then, I still get to allow her to do that for herself and watch her be all dramatic and yet love that at the same time.

Because it really isn’t her drama that causes my drama. It’s just how I’m thinking about her drama that causes my drama. So, that’s super-amazing. And as I let go of all the resistance to her being a normal almost 18-year-old girl, it’s amazing how I get to communicate with her and connect with her on levels where I don’t think that would happen if I had so much resistance to the way she is.

Like, if I was like, “Oh no, I have to fix this or I have to change this or this is not okay or you should not be so dramatic.” Like, if I had all that, the way I would show up would not be helpful, according to how I want to show up. And I’ve learned so much of that, even in Coaching Masters, learning about how the brain works and what’s totally normal and expected and then what I can do, knowing that the brain is working in a normal way to not either mirror her, or I just have total, I want to say control over how I decide to think, feel, and act over just my children, my daughter specifically right now. But it’s really, really powerful.

Lindsay: I think that my kids are, right now at least in my life, are probably the circumstance that most often helps me remember how excited I get that I know about coaching. So, for example, sometimes something will happen and my brain will just take off without me and it’s going down the list, and this is going to happen and this is going to happen, whatever the things are.

And then I remember, like, it’s like a flashing neon sign goes off in my head that just says, “Coaching.” And I’m like, “Oh yeah, I forgot.” It’s such a good reminder every time of my brain just leaving the station without me, is what I call it, it’s gone, it’s taken off. It’s now running with this story that’s not at all true and it’s just so fun that I get to remind myself, “Oh yeah, and there’ coaching.”

I love that you said your daughter has a coach. That’s something that I have thought of a couple of times as my daughter starts to, you know, as she gets older, my older daughter. And it’s like I forget about it and it keeps coming back up, and it’s like, “Yeah, that’s such a powerful tool that we have.”

Jamee: Yeah, what if it was just totally normal for all of us to have a coach, including our children. And what if they just grew up having coaches like they grow up eating breakfast, lunch, and dinner and every Monday afternoon they have their coach.

Lindsay: Do you coach your kids ever?

Jamee: I’ll ask if they want coaching and they always say no.

Lindsay: And is that okay? Like, how do you feel about that?

Jamee: I’m like, is it because it’s me? And they’re like, “Yeah.” And so, they get coaching from someone else.

Lindsay: That’s so great.

Jamee: Yeah, so they’ve all had coaches. And my daughter has one consistently. And I have a 15-year-old son and a 13-year-old son who both have coaches as well, they’re just not always working with a coach like she is right now. Because she’s the one that wants to always have a coach. Ad my other kids will get coaching when there’s something we don’t really want to talk to you about.

And it’s fine. I try to create a place of safety where everybody feels comfortable to talk to me, but let’s just face it, it’s your parents. Sometimes, you don’t want to talk to them.

Lindsay: It’s different, right? Just like earlier when we were saying those crazy irrational thoughts that we have or the just human things that our brain does, sometimes it’s like I don’t want to say that out loud, especially to my mom. But I’ll tell a coach who’s just going to be neutral and not care and be like, “Yeah, it’s just your brain.”

Jamee: Yep, and it’s totally normal to them to just come to me and say, “Hey, mom, I’m going to need some coaching. Do you have a coaching friend or someone that you could reach out to?” I have a large community of people that are available in my back pocket at all times and it’s just been so helpful. Thank you, my village. You know, it takes a village, that kind of mindset. Like, thank you. And I really want to normalize having a coach. And so, I work really hard on just like your kids would take piano lessons, they also just have a coach. It’s just totally normal. No big deal.

Lindsay: That is really powerful. I got chills as you were saying that. Such a good thing for people to hear. So, that actually kind of leads me into my next question. We’re going to, like, move to another topic but it’s related to kids. So, this year has been a little difficult, especially for really everyone. But one thing that some people have had to really figure out this year is how to go to work or build a business or maintain their business while possibly having kids home. And I know for you – first, tell us how many kids you have and how old are they?

Jamee: Okay, I have four kids. My daughter is 17. She’ll be 18 soon. And then my son is 15, my other son is 13, and my youngest is nine.

Lindsay: Okay, so navigating, you made the decision – did you make the decision to keep them home, or was it not a choice?

Jamee: My oldest two, I let them decide what they wanted to do, and they wanted to go to high school. The high school decided to do a hybrid version where it’s half in, half home. So, every other day they’re at school. Then they stay home. Then that just was canceled and then everyone was home. So, whatever, you know.

Lindsay: Day to day, that’s what I keep saying. We’ll see. We don’t know what’s going to happen today. Might go to school, might not.

Jamee: And then, for my youngest, I didn’t like the way the elementary school was holding school. They were in school five days a week; I just did not love the way they were doing it. And same with the middle school. So, I switched them to a charter school that was meeting twice a week. And I get it, they are just starting and it was during a pandemic and they’d just built the school. And it was just not running efficiently. Like, it wasn’t helpful for me. It was actually adding in more stress to my life that I just didn’t want to manage. And so, I decided to bring those two home, my middle school and elementary school. So, I was homeschooling full-time.

Lindsay: Okay, and you still are, right now?

Jamee: Yes.

Lindsay: So, just in case someone is listening to this and it’s 2025 and they’ve totally blocked this part of their life, this year out.

Jamee: We will just pray that that happens, yes…

Lindsay: But I still think this is very useful, right? I get questions about this a lot, especially for newer coaches trying to figure out, trying to navigate, “But it’s summer, the kids are home, how do I build my business?” or how do I make my coaching calls work, how do I make this work for me? And I’m just curious. I know you’ve had to shift some things around. Do you have any tips or maybe ay useful thoughts that you have used to get through this, or just anything you want to share about that that might be helpful?

Jamee: Yes, oh my goodness. Okay, so staying devoted to myself and my own personal goals has come very clear to me how important that is for me to show up as the mom that I am. I am very, very tempted – this is the thought that is not helpful that always comes up for me and it’s like, I just don’t deserve what I want. I just don’t deserve that.

And I’m tempted to just give up on what I want, and then try to focus on helping my family, which I do want to be a mom. I do want to homeschool my kids. I made that decision. Like, I’m not saying homeschooling my kids is something I don’t want to do and then working on my business is something I do want to do. I just always have to remind myself that I want them all. I want them all.

So, it’s not a matter of now I can’t have my business so I have to go homeschool my kids. It’s like, no, I want my business and I do want my kids to be hopefully educated to some extent. And so, I get to figure out how to do both. And both is possible. And reminding myself that I do deserve what I want, and what I want is all of this. So, that’s been really helpful for me because it tends to go one or the other.

Like, either I can have my business or I’m a mom. I can’t do both. I remember, I coached on this a lot when I was working one on one with you where it’s like, I guess I might as well just quit because my kids need me…

Lindsay: Very dramatic.

Jamee: Yes, or I’m not a good mom because I worked all day. Like, that doesn’t make any sense. They really are not connected at all. So, I’ve done a lot of work to separate that out. Like, my thoughts about my business are not the same thoughts I have about my kids. Like, I remember even working with you in Coaching Masters, my business is doing so well and I saved up money and I took my mom and my sisters on a girl’s trip, just back in September, so we could spend special time together.

And while I was gone, my kids got in a car accident. And so, when I got back, I was trying to just get back into work and I kept thinking that because I went on this trip and while I was on – obviously, this is what my brain was saying, it was my fault the kids got in a car wreck. Because if I would have been home, that wouldn’t have happened. I would have prevented it from happening. And that’s just not true.

And so, my brain wanted to wrap all this up together. Like, you did so well in your business. You were able to go on a trip. Then you went on this trip and your kids got in a car accident, which now means you shouldn’t have made all that money, you shouldn’t have gone on a trip, and just trying to tie all those things together in a very confusing – that actually are not connected.

My business was doing very well. I was able to do something really fun for myself and my mom and my sisters, and my kids got in a car accident, which is life happening, not connected, okay. Like, I was having two different thoughts; thoughts about the car accident, thoughts about my business. And then, I was trying to make my thoughts about my car accident the same thoughts I should have about my business. So, just separating all of that out is just so, so helpful. And I know that we think, like, they’re all connected. But they’re not. It’s just very separate.

I don’t know how else to explain that but they’re very separate and it’s safe to separate them. I think that’s like another thought that is helpful, like I say that in my marriage. It’s safe to miss my husband and it’s safe to have a separate life. It’s safe to separate my business from my personal life. Of course, things are happening in my personal life and they are not connected to my business. It’s all okay and it’s all safe to separate them. And that was the most helpful thing for me.

Lindsay: Okay so first, your kids are fine now.

Jamee: Of course, yeah.

Lindsay: Okay, I just wanted to make sure everybody knows the kids are fine. And so, when you think about that, one thing that I know I’ve coached you on and I’ve coached so many people on this, so it might be very useful for anyone, particularly parents who are also taking care of kids or trying to figure out this whole how to homeschool, how to make sure your kids are getting the education they need, whatever it is, whatever it looks like for you right now, one thing we have coached on is kind of looking back. Like, at one point we looked back and you said, “Oh, look, in this month and this month I didn’t make nearly as much money.” It was drama about I didn’t make what I normally do, I didn’t hit my goals.

And we started kind of looking back and it was like, “Yep, that was the month after the pandemic hit.” It was all of these things. And kind of similar to what you just said, our brains love to ignore all of that, ignore, nope, none of that matters. And instead, I’m just going to have all of the drama, even though I hit my big goal, I’m going to look back and have all of this drama about – I’m not saying you had all of the drama. But you had some drama and you brough it to me and we coached on it. And what do you think about that now, after we’ve looked at it, after we’ve coached on it, what are your thoughts on it and how might that show up for your clients?

Jamee: Well, for sure, of course I had all the drama. I think that’s the first thing that always happens. And you helped me see this too, like of course that happened. Of course you made less money in these months, these are the months you decided to start homeschooling.

Not that you’re going to make less money of you homeschool. Not at all. That’s actually been proven not true. I can actually make more money homeschooling. Whatever, we can coach on all that too. However, it was just a change. It was just a change I was going through and I was resisting that reality and so I wasn’t being present with it. And so, I wasn’t able to make some decisions and put some new practices in place that would be helpful and supportive to me.

I wasn’t actually facing reality. And I would even tell you, I say I’m homeschooling, but I’m 50% homeschooling and 50% in my head about my business. So, I wasn’t actually 100% all in on anything when I was doing it. And that was super-helpful for you to just point that out for me and for me to see that, like, okay, so because I’m resisting the pandemic, I’m resisting the changes that have happened in our home. You know, my husband is a police officer and some of the struggles that have come with that this year, I was trying to think positive about all of it and not actually process anything or face reality.

And so, because of my resisting all that, I didn’t actually make decisions that need to be made. I didn’t actually come up with a system that was supportive to myself and my family. And so, finally, when I decided to just face it all, look at it, process it, I was able to come up with some amazing ideas that are actually really supportive to me.

It makes me laugh when I say it because it’s just so easy now, looking back. It’s so easy when you just kind of face reality because you can finally just make some decisions. And actually, it makes life so much more fun and easier. That’s literally why I took the weekend away, you know.

Like, oh, I’m actually going to need some more time to myself because I’m constantly either working or homeschooling. And I haven’t actually taken appropriate time to just nurture myself. So, I wouldn’t have seen that if I wasn’t able to face exactly what was going on and offer myself so much compassion for that too. Like, of course this is hard. You’re going through so many changes in your life right now. It’s okay to face it and say that it’s hard. It’s okay.

Lindsay: One of my favorite things is to say, “Of course this is hard. I’ve never done it before.” It’s like, things can be hard. It doesn’t mean we have to have so many thoughts and create so much ore drama about it. It can just be hard. It’s like when people say, why is building a business so hard? I’m like, what are you talking about? You’ve never done it before. Of course it’s hard.

Jamee: It’s supposed to be. And I’m going to share this with people because I think this will be really, really helpful for lots of people listening and you’ve really helped me with this, is when things are hard, when life gets hard – and you can apply this to marriage too, right – life is hard and we like to blame our marriages. Or life is hard and then we like to blame our business. It’s the same thing, same mindset. Life is just hard and then because I’m not making as much money in my business that I wanted to, then I like to make that mean that I’m a bad coach.

And you know, that’s the place my brain always wants to direct me to is, like, oh now obviously you’re a terrible coach because your coaching business is hard right now. When really, it’s not bad. It’s just I’m in a new circumstance in my business, a new year, a new circumstance with my family which means a new circumstance in my business and trying to manage and make some new systems that will be supportive of us.

But I like to use this simple analogy to remind myself, like, it would be like, if I was a mother who wanted to try snowboarding and I went to go snowboarding and I wasn’t very good at it because I’d never done it before, and then because I wasn’t very good at snowboarding or because it was hard, I would just say – it would be like me saying I’m a terrible mother because I can’t snowboard very well right now. It just doesn’t make sense. It’s not connected.

So, because life is hard does not mean that my business is hard. And it also doesn’t mean I’m a terrible coach. None of those are connected. Life is just hard. We’re going to figure out life, process that. We know how to do that. And then we can return to our business, which is actually fun and enjoyable. And actually, you’re an amazing coach, obviously. That’s not even in the questions. Like, of course. Separate them out…

Lindsay: Yeah, you’re not allowed to have that thought anymore, by the way, ever. It’s canceled.

Jamee: And I have your voice in my head, like, “Jamee, you’re not alone.” Oh yeah, okay.

Lindsay: Good. And I want to be clear, because I’m sure there are people listening right now that are like, “Don’t they know hard is a thought?” Of course we know hard is a thought. But what we mean when we say hard is that sometimes things are just tricky. You have to figure them out. And, or life throws your circumstances that are unexpected. And I’m guessing that at least 99% of humans would say this year, there have just been some more unexpected circumstances than what we were hoping for.

Jamee: Yeah, not everyone would agree with this maybe. But for me – and this is why I think coaching is so powerful. Because one thought may not be helpful for someone but it is helpful for someone else. So, what’s helpful for me is to just acknowledge that it’s hard. That’s it. And it’s like, in that moment, I just feel so much whatever, it feels like love towards myself compassion. And from that mindset, I’m able to see more clearly and make decisions, which is actually what I want to do, you know. And so, that thought is helpful to me. If it’s not helpful for other people then don’t use it. But it is helpful.

Lindsay: I think a really great example of that, of how to think about things that are hard but also see, but I’m kind of glad – not that I’m glad the pandemic is happening. Not that I’m glad that any of the circumstances that have happened this year, I’m not like these are good. But one thing I thought of the other day is that I was flipping through a calendar from a year ago and I noticed so many weekends of travel.

And there was one point where I just had lots of travel kind of back-to-back. And having kids, having a husband who works full-time, all of that, it was just kind of a lot, a lot that I just had to figure out. And I remember feeling just a little annoyed by it. Which is ironic because I love to travel. Adventure and travel are my things. I used to think, if I could just travel all the time it would be perfect.

Now I know that’s not true because I’ve had the experience of traveling a lot and I’m like, “Okay, it’s a little much.” But I had gotten to the point where I was a little bit just like, okay, more travel, it’s fine. We can do this. And then the pandemic hit. Now I haven’t traveled in a year and I can’t wait. Like, the first time I travel, I’m going to be like a kid in a candy store. It’s going to give me that experience, just all over again, of being so grateful for it on the other side of a year of not traveling.

Jamee: Yeah, it’s nice to be able to have that and compare. So if we never acknowledge that there are hard things in life, it’s like you never actually have anything to compare it to, so then you actually never feel the easy. To just put it simply, if you don’t allow the hard, you don’t actually feel the easy. And I love to feel the easy. And I like to acknowledge the hard so that the easy is there too. And when I don’t acknowledge the hard, I kind of stay in this neutral middle plane often. Not that that’s bad, but I just don’t prefer that. I like to notice the relief that comes from the easy every now and then.

Lindsay: Yeah, it’s like the question and then – I do want to move on. I have a couple more things I want to talk to you about. But it’s like that question, how would you ever know if you’re happy if you never felt sad? You can’t just be happy all the time because then it would just be – you wouldn’t actually know you were happy. It would just be, “This is just normal. This is just how I am.”

The reason we feel happy is because we have sad to compare it to or have, you know, whatever other opposite emotions of happy are. If we have that to compare it to, that’s how we know this feels different.

Jamee: Yep, if you acknowledge the sad then you know happy is around the corner too, so that’s nice.

Lindsay: Yes, okay, so one thing that I wanted to ask you about – I have said on here for people to send me questions and that I will do a Q&A, but I have noticed sometimes that some of the questions people send me, I’m kind of sprinkling them in, especially into interviews, so it’s not just me answering the question but also other people. And so that’s one thing I want to do right now.

So, one question that I get often, whether it’s from clients, people in my masterminds, and then I’ve had it emailed to me a couple of times for this podcast, is – so this is how they phrased it; do I think it’s important for clients to have a coach that has similarities to them? Why or why not? And then they said, for example, should my coach share my same ethnicity, religion, or family dynamic? And for you just for a little context for the listeners, the reason I think this is a fun question for you to answer is that you, Jamee, are a part of – I hope I get it right – the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Did I say it right?

Jamee: Yes, good job. And you said the whole name. I’m so proud of you.

Lindsay: So, and I am not. And we have talked about this many times. And so you have worked with me. And I also know you have worked with coaches who are also part of your church.

Jamee: Yes.

Lindsay: And then I also know you have clients who have been part of your church and also clients who haven’t.

Jamee: Yes.

Lindsay: What are your thoughts – and I’ll tell you what my answer is, but I want to hear yours first. What are your thoughts about why is it useful to be similar and also why is it useful not to be?

Jamee: Okay, so I’ll speak from my experience and what I’ve learned from having coaches who were members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and members who were not. It’s useful to have coaches who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints – I love saying the whole name – because there’s a lot of cultural ideas, things that are taught, we call it church doctrine that someone who is not a member of the church would not understand.

And I come from a place of truly understanding that. My coaches come from a place of understanding that. And so, you don’t have to spend a lot of time describing the mindset behind why you want to live a certain way or why you’re making certain decisions. That can be useful on a coaching call, really. It can be.

It’s like, “Hey, we were married in the temple,” just throwing out a term there. To you, you don’t know what that means. So, I would explain it to you from my mindset. To a coach who knows what that means, they know all the things that entails. And so, I can just start going into whatever I need to be coached on. Where with a coach who isn’t that way, not that I would have to explain everything to you – sometimes out of curiosity you would be like, “Tell me what that means, I’m so interested,” because you’re fun, you like to love other people.

Lindsay: Yeah, which I have.

Jamee: Yeah, and it’s fine. You give me extra time on our coaching calls. It’s all good. It’s not a problem. But that’s okay. Some people don’t want to explain all that and some people actually enjoy explaining it. I actually enjoyed explaining it because it helps solidify for me why I believed what I believe, if I wanted to continue believing what I was believing. Like, if it was helpful, if it was not, some people are like, “No, I don’t even want to question any of that. I just want to get into what I’m being coached on.” And that’s great too. That’s amazing.

To work with someone who is not the same ethnicity, family dynamic, religion, whatever you want to call it, I believe can be useful because it helped me see things a different way. It helped me have an open mind and an open heart to whatever I was going through because sometimes we like to just do things because that’s the way it’s always been, as opposed to taking a step back and being like, but why? But why am I doing this? And a coach who is not the same usually opens up with that question because they’re not coming from the same mindset.

They’re like, “Okay, so tell me why that’s important to you.” I’m like, “Oh, no one’s ever asked me that before because it was just a given.” Like, of course. Of course this is hard or whatever because of your circumstance. But a coach who isn’t the same will open up to that, which I think is super-useful.

And depending on what I want coaching on and what I’m working on specifically in that part of my life, I choose a different coach based off of that. Sometimes, I don’t want to go into and question all things. Sometimes I want to go in and get help, or work on a certain goal or something. And sometimes, I’m like, I’m kind of open to seeing another side of this and to really see what I think as opposed to just going along with what’s always been done. So, those are my thoughts on that. What about you?

Lindsay: I think that’s a great answer, and I would say it’s really similar to my answer. I think the most important answer, in my opinion, is there is no right or wrong. You get to decide, for the people who have asked me this, this is what I always say. There is no right or wrong. And my answer, if I was telling someone my answer on my personal opinion of their circumstance would totally depend.

So, for me, it’s like, it depends on what you want coaching on maybe. So, for you – and I’ll ask you this in a minute, but it’s like you are a marriage coach, a relationship coach, and if someone hires you from within your church, you just have a lot of context that some people might not. It might be very useful, especially if they’re wanting coaching around religion-specific topics.

I also know, from coaching people through circumstances, through difficult circumstances that have come up in their life, sometimes it’s really useful for me to have no idea what they’re talking about. Because I have no reaction to it. I don’t have that reaction of, like, “Oh my gosh, you’re right, that’s terrible.” I’m not in the pool with them because I just don’t even know that it’s a, quote, bad thing that they’re telling me because I don’t have the context.

One thing, one way I see this come up in Coaching Masters and in my mastermind is that I attract coaches from all over the industry, people with different certifications, different training, different backgrounds, all of it. And I actually find it so useful that when I don’t know the training they’ve had when I don’t know, for example, you probably heard the interview with Sheri, when someone like Sheri comes to me who has a much more spiritual idea of what coaching is and uses those things in her coaching, it’s actually really useful for me to not know always what she’s talking about. That is specifically what helped her get so clear on how do I say it, how do I describe it?

Because I would make her say it to me over and over until I understood what she was talking about, instead of I know she has worked with some other amazing coaches in the past who do have that more spiritual side to them and they might not even know or think, like, no one’s going to understand those words. But you just said, like, you need to explain them in a way that makes sense to everyone.

So, it really helped her hammer out her process and that’s just one very specific example. And so, that’s really my answer is I guess I also go back to when I very first hired my coach. I had kids. I had two young kids and I had lots of thoughts about how am I going to do this, how am I going to build a business, how, how, how, all of it.

And she was just so unfazed by it that it really helped me kind of look at it and say, “Oh, I’m believing these things are just the truth of the universe. And she is here to tell me, why is that a problem?” It poked so many holes in my story that I was in my head telling myself.

Jamee: Oh my gosh, yes. You reminded me why I decided to start hiring coaches who were not of the same religion I was, because I made the powerful decision to work on my thoughts and beliefs about a lot of the things that are taught in my religion so that I could come from a more neutral place. And I didn’t want to have those reactions, like, “Oh no, this is a problem.” I wanted to come from a place of like what you were saying your coach did for you, just not being very fazed by it. Like, okay, of course I can see why this is hard, but at the same time, I’m not having a huge emotional reaction to this because I’ve done the work myself to see that this actually is not a problem, it’s a circumstance. And it’s your thoughts about this that are creating the problem for you.

These topics are not heavy. But within the church that I’m in, there are certain things that people avoid talking about because they are seen as heavy, like abuse, divorce, affairs, pornography, alcohol, drugs. And if anybody is suffering with anything in this realm, they usually avoid talking about it because there’s a lot of shame that can be behind it.

And so, I did a lot of work to work with you specifically and some other coaches where I could get to a more neutral place so I could help my clients with those things without any shame, without any reaction. And people will send me messages all the time. And it makes me laugh, not laughing at them, but just makes me laugh.

Because I just got this one message recently, of course, I won’t mention any names, but they said time, “Jamee, my husband cheated on me.” Period, end of sentence. As if I’m supposed to know exactly how they feel about that. And I think a lot of people’s reaction would be like, “Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry. This is so terrible.” But my reaction was, “Please tell me more.” Because I’ve learned that that’s not always bad for people.

And what happened was, she told me, “I feel so relieved.” Which is not a typical reaction. And I was wondering, like, what she might have been making that mean. And I’ve literally come to terms to know that I don’t know a situation for someone. I don’t know if it’s bad or good. And a lot of people might just assume that it’s bad. And I can’t anymore because of all the work I have done. I just don’t go straight to the place of oh, that’s bad, or oh, this is good. I’m like, “Tell me more.”

And I love – you say this too – tell me everything. I’m like, “Please tell me everything. What is happening in your mind right now?” And it turns out, like, she had been struggling in her marriage for a long time and thought something was wrong and when she found out, she was so relieved to have the answer, the truth.

So, you never know with someone. And for yourself, like you were saying, make a powerful decision. Like, what experience do you want with a coach? And what’s useful for you at this time? And come on, we’re always going to have coaches, so you can try out different things and see what you like, right?

Lindsay: Try both, yeah. I love that. And I do sometimes think – and obviously all coaches, and it is something I talk about and I teach in the mastermind, this idea of kind of showing up as a neutral space for clients. But at the end of the day, we are humans. We do have thoughts that run through our mind. For example, when a client messages you and says, “I just found out my husband cheated on me,” or whatever it says, we run that through the context of our life. That’s just what human brains do.

And so, our immediate reaction is however we would think about that if it happened to us. And the difference between a good coach and a great coach is so subtle. It’s not not having the human brain and removing all those thoughts. It’s the pausing before you respond.

Because it’s so easy – you could have sent back a message that says “Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry, you must be devastated.” And your client could have a reaction to that, like, “Oh my gosh, is that how I’m supposed to feel?” if she doesn’t. Being a great coach does not mean – I’m saying this for anyone listening because that’s what this podcast is all about – being a great coach doesn’t mean not being human, not having human thoughts, not having a human brain ever.

It just means the pause of, like, oh that’s my interpretation. Instead, I’m just going to slip into that curiosity and say that’s – maybe I wouldn’t say this in that circumstance, but you’ve heard me say this a lot, “That’s so interesting. Tell me more.”

Jamee: Yes, and you explained that so well just now. Thank you for pointing that out. And that’s exactly what it is, is I hope that I’ve been able to show people, “Hey, I’m very, very human. Also, I’m an amazing coach and I can separate that.” So, I can say, like, these are my opinions. I would be really sad if I just found out that my husband cheated on me. Pause. I wonder what she’s thinking. That’s key.

Lindsay: Yeah, that’s so important. Yes. Okay, so last couple of things. One is, tell me just briefly, I’ve asked everyone this so far. I think it’s a fun question. What makes you different as a coach? So, what would a client say about you if they described you as a coach? Why do people want to work with you instead of maybe someone else?

Jamee: Oh my gosh, this is such a good question. What a fun opportunity, to think about all those wonderful things. The first one that comes to my mind is I understand a lot of what people might say are hard circumstances. So, you know, being diagnosed with different illnesses, I’ve had all kinds of stuff. I’ve had all kinds of surgeries. Just physical – I was going to say disabilities. It’s not really disabilities, it’s just illnesses and hardships that have happened to me. And so, I’ve done a lot of work around seeing all of that as not a problem. And I’ve even gone beyond that to the things we suffer with in our own – just in our own bodies, whether that’s being diagnosed with, like, a mental illness or some kind of physical illness, it’s like I’ve actually taken it to the place where I’ve learned so much from them that I actually don’t want them to go away.

I’m like, no, these are my best friends that I get to learn so much from, like depression and anxiety, ADHD, endometriosis, tumors being removed and spent months and months sick and not able to get out of bed. And so, because I’m on the other side of a lot of that, meaning not that that stuff isn’t there anymore, I didn’t get rid of that stuff, it’s just I have overcome a lot of that mentally. All mentally. And that, to me, I have such a powerful belief around coaching, just that it can solve any problem because I’ve used coaching to literally solve all the challenges in my life. That’s the modality that I have chosen to work on all my problems.

I’ve gone to doctors. I’ve had surgeries. I’ve had therapy. I’ve had all that and I had the most success with coaching. And so, when you work with me, my belief in coaching is 100,000% high, like, it will solve all your problems. So, that is one thing that’s really powerful. And because of all of that, I have a – I don’t know how to explain this very well. It’s like, I have my ADHD kicking in, and also this and also…

Lindsay: Well, I actually wanted, before you say something else, I want to say something about that which is what I see in you, because it ties right along with this, what I see in you, one thing I think makes you an incredible coach is – and possibly because of everything you just described – I think you have had to work so much on self-compassion for yourself that you have so much compassion for others.

And it really shows up in a way of, like, I love you so much and I have so much compassion for you that I am here to help you no matter what that looks like. So, that doesn’t mean you just believe them and you have endless amounts of empathy and you’re in their story. You are like, “No, I know coaching is the answer and because I’ve learned to love myself so much, I’m going to do the same for you and really help you get through whatever this is.”

Jamee: Yeah, and facing the truth – first of all, thank you. That’s so nice of you to notice and to point out. And also, like, there’s so much compassion in the truth and just being honest with yourself, like you’re making this a problem because these are our thoughts about it. It really is your thoughts about, you know, your depression or your thoughts about your mental illness or your thoughts about your physical illness that you’re suffering that are causing so much more suffering in your life. And first of all, having compassion for that circumstance. But then also, people who hire me are ready to get out of it, right? So then, I can say, “And here’s where you’re holding yourself back from moving through it.” And always with love.

But love sometimes means, “Hey, I’m going to show something to you and this might feel harsh at first. But it’s the truth. And this is the secret to getting to the other side of the problem.” And it’s so powerful, just like getting there really quickly to the actual problem and then moving through it, which is super-powerful. Plus, I’m spiritual, so I believe in God and I like to add all the spiritual things that come up. But I’m also pretty – what would the word be? I feel like you’ve used it before. It’s like rebellious in a sense. Like, I’m not – if we’re going to go back and talk about, like yes, I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I believe in God and spirituality, I actually am a little bit more rebellious within that. This is also my thoughts. But it feels helpful for me because I’m able to see other people’s struggles come to me and I don’t have guilt or shame about it.

I’m not like, “Oh, that’s a terrible thing that you’re participating in,” where they might think this is a terrible thing I’m participating in. And I’m like, nope, not really, I don’t see it as that.

Lindsay: I think that goes back too to what we were talking about earlier a little bit which is you have done so much work on examining it all, whether it comes to religion or whatever, your beliefs. You’ve done so much work on – when you say rebellious, what I think is, like, you kind of have looked at it all. You haven’t been afraid to just question it and to commit to the belief because you want to, not just because someone told you this is what you’re supposed to believe. You’ve done a lot of work about what do I actually believe and how do I feel about this?

It’s just, I think there is a beauty to that, that will be really beneficial to your clients because you have those experiences and because you have really taken the time to be so clear about what your thoughts are on all of it.

Jamee: Yes, and Lindsay, you’re so good at helping your clients – well, I can speak for myself. But I’ve been in a group coaching with you and I’ve been on retreats with you, so I see how you act with other people so I feel like I can say this. But you are so good at helping other people decide what they want for themselves, which you’ve really taught me how to do that.

And so, it’s not to say that I’m going to say, “Oh, you should for sure get a divorce” because I don’t think there’s anything wrong with divorce. It’s not that. It’s just that because I feel more clear on my own opinions about it and because I don’t have, like – I don’t like the word judgment because I feel like we have to have judgment to make decisions. But it’s more like I’m not rejecting you for your decision because I’m coming from this place of more love and I’m not emotionally charged by it. It helps them see it more clearly for themselves what they want. Does that make sense?

And I learned a lot of that from you. It’s like, “Hey I’m not going to tell you what you should do, ever.” I don’t actually know what you should do. Who am I to know what you should do? But I can see this clear love, and sometimes, just being neutral is love too, to help you see yourself clearly. That’s what I love to help people do.

Lindsay: Love it. Okay, two last questions. One, the enrolment for the next round of Coaching Masters is about to open. Anyone on the fence, what do you have to say about that? Why should they join? Why shouldn’t they? All the things.

Jamee: I’m laughing so hard because I get messages and I think I’ve texted you before. I’m like, “Lindsay, everyone always texts me and says should I join Coaching Masters?” And now, my automatic response is, “Oh my gosh, do it. Just do it. Why are you even questioning this?” Because if you feel like you want to, that is literally the best reason to do something. So, just go do it. It’s amazing.

But the other thing that I do want to say is, if you’re trying to decide whether to do Coaching Masters – I laugh because it’s just a no-brainer to me. Why wouldn’t you? That’s my only question. Why wouldn’t you want to fine-tun your coaching skills? Why wouldn’t you want to join with other women and see what they’re working on? And why wouldn’t you want to get really clear on who your clients are? And why wouldn’t you want to get clear on what your self-concept is?

And Lindsay is so good at – we just talked about this – she sees me, like you see me. And because of that, it helps me see me. And everything just feels so clear when I try to make decisions, when I can just be who I want to be. And one of the best things I’ve learned from being in Coaching Masters is the belief that I can coach anybody.

Like, I can coach anybody because of the skills that you taught me. I have nobody in my mind that I could not coach. Even while working with you, I got a consultation with a celebrity and I was like, “What?” I know celebrities are people too. I know that. And they have feelings. But that really – I was able to have an amazing consultation with them and help them make a really good decision on what they were going to do to move forward. And I was like, “What?”

I don’t know if I would have been able to do this eight or nine months ago. I probably would have been freaking out too much about it that I just wouldn’t have done it. And then also, I’ve gotten more clients who actually are coaches. They’re not hiring me for their coaching businesses or anything. But they want to improve their marriages because they believe that if their marriage is thriving then their business will be figureoutable. All the things are connected to them so they want to work on their relationships.

And before Coaching Masters, I probably would have had more thoughts about working with coaches that, you know, because I tend to go to that place of, “I don’t know if I’m a very good coach.” But because I worked it out with you, I’m like, I can coach anyone. I can coach all the coaches. I can coach all the celebrities. I can coach all the women. Who doesn’t want that confidence?

I might sound a little bit judgy when I say that but I’m like, really truly, who wouldn’t want that confidence as a coach that you can just coach anybody? That’s amazing.

Lindsay: I love that you just said that because now I’m just going to wrap it all the way back around to what you do as a coach. It’s kind of the same reason someone should hire you, right? Not because their marriage is terrible.

I say this all the time. I don’t want you to join Coaching Masters because you are a terrible coach or you think you’re the worst coach. I mean, you can. I can certainly help you. But also, why wouldn’t you want to improve your coaching skills?

I’m not saying that it’s right for everyone at all times. But if it is something that’s on your mind, it’s so much like your marriage. If it’s something important to you, why would you not want to work on it?

Jamee: Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.

Lindsay: Perfect. I’m glad I could drag that right back around because now I want you to tell them, how can they find you? Where do they go? How do they work with you? How do you work with your clients? I don’t think we talked about that.

Jamee: Oh, well I just love connecting with people on Facebook or Instagram, so @jameeandelin and I just love – I show up on Facebook and Instagram.

Lindsay: We will link those in the show notes.

Jamee: Great. I also have a podcast. It’s just simple; Coaching with Jamee, it’s the name of my business, it’s the name of my podcast. It’s perfect. So, you can check into that. And that’s it. I just like to connect. I just want to be friends. Like, I just think it’s fun to be friends with all of the people.

Lindsay: And how can they work with you? Do you work with your clients one on one? Do you have groups? How do you work with them right now?

Jamee: Right now, I have one on one. And I have a group that I’m doing right now, but I’m going to be transitioning into doing a marriage coaching group. I just love one on one so much that I can’t not do it. So, I’m always going to offer – this is where I’m at right now. I’m always going to be offering one on one coaching. It’s so good. But I do want to start offering a small intimate coaching group for women who want to work on their marriages and improve their marriages and have thriving marriages. Because it can always get better, no matter what, it can always get better.

Lindsay: Okay, I love that. And that may change, by the way. I remember telling my business coach, you’re going to have to rip my one-on-one clients away. You’re going to have to rip them out of my hands. And now, I’m not taking one on one clients. But you never know what’s going to happen, right?

Jamee: I mean, yeah.

Lindsay: Thank you so much.

Jamee: Thank you so much. I love – I’ll take all the Lindsay I can get. So, the second you’re like, “Do you want to be on my podcast?” Yes.

Lindsay: I adore you. This was so fun.

Jamee: I adore you.

Lindsay: Thank you for doing this and I’ll see you later.

Jamee: Thank you. I will see you later.

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Thank you so much for being here today. I hope you enjoyed that interview, or conversation with my friend and amazing coach Jamee Andelin. Obviously, if you loved her, head to my show notes. You can find all of her information. She is a brilliant coach and I will see you guys here again next week. Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.