Ep #152: When You Want to Quit Coaching with Dielle Charon

Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills, episode 152.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Before we dive into today’s episode I want to let you know, if you’ve been around a while you may have heard me do this last year, but I am hosting something I call Coach Week. It starts the week of October 23rd and we will get the link for you in the show notes so you can join us.

This is going to be a free week-long training, where I’m going to be doing teaching, workshopping, coaching, and just all kinds of fun things coaching related. So you should definitely join us. This is for anyone that is a coach or who’s considering becoming a coach and just wants to learn about coaching. It’s going to be amazing. Come join us. Click the link and I will see you there.

Now let’s dive into today’s episode. And I’m so glad you’re here because I have something very, very special for you today. My friend and colleague Dielle Charon is on the show today, and we have a juicy conversation about the coaching industry, about why it’s super important that you’re here doing the work that you’re here to do. And I just can’t wait. You’re just going to have to listen for yourself.

Dielle is incredible. She gives such good tips for anyone that is a coach, for anyone, even if you’re not a coach and you run your own business, there’s some amazing, amazing goodness that she talks about in this episode. I’m so excited for you to learn from her. So with no further ado, let’s dive right in. Lindsay: Hello, I am so happy to have you here today. Would you love to introduce yourself to the listeners? Tell them who you are and what you do.

Dielle: Hi, everyone. So, first of all, I’m a massive fan of this podcast. This podcast is gold. Y’all should go back and binge everything. Lindsay is laughing right now at me. And so this podcast is amazing, so I’m so happy to be here. My name is Dielle Charon, I am a sales coach for women of color. So that’s what I do.

Lindsay: I love it. And that did make me laugh because that just caught me off guard. Thank you so much. I receive that. I’m working on receiving. This is something that’s in my plan right now. It’s really hard for me to not say, like, deflect it. So I receive that. Thank you.

And I am so happy you’re here. I am such a fan of yours. I think you know that. I tell you all the time to the point that maybe it’s uncomfortable sometimes.

Dielle: Just a little. Just a little.

Lindsay: Okay, so I’m just going to tell them what happened first. So, first, I adore you. I see you every once in a while. We were just together in person, which was amazing. And then I think it was, I don’t know what day it was, but I was just having a day one day last week. And I kind of plopped down dramatically on my couch and was, I don’t know. I wasn’t crying, but that’s what it felt like. I was just like, ugh.

And I pulled up Instagram. I was actually going to find, not to just scroll, but I was looking for something very specific. And the first thing that popped up was you doing a video. A live video, but I was watching it later on the replay. And I watched the whole thing and it was like half an hour. And I just sat and watched the whole thing and I immediately texted you and said we have to talk about this, it’s so good.

It really shook me out of my mood that I was in. I found the fire in that moment of like, oh yes, this is why I do what I do. We must keep going. And it’s funny now, of course, because I can’t even remember what was wrong. Like I don’t even remember what it was, you know, but I probably wanted to quit my business and just hide in a cave somewhere. And you just snapped me right out of it. So thank you for that, first.

Dielle: Oh my gosh, yes. And that feeling is so normal for all of us at every single point in business. I think it’s also just really important to note that even at your level, even at my level, we still feel the same way as when we first started. And so this is something you’ll always have to work on.

Lindsay: Yes, that was definitely something I wanted to touch on. That’s why I brought it up because I think that it is just important to know like, oh, congratulations, you’re human. This is part of it, it’s part of building a business. And there are days that I’m like, today maybe I’m quitting. Maybe I’m just not going to be a coach anymore. And it feels very dramatic. Do you have those days too, or those moments?

Dielle: Often, often. Or I want to change my offers or get into a new niche. Like recently I’m like, what if I had – I have two big group programs always focused on sales. And I’ve been thinking recently, oh, what if I just had a life coaching membership? Wouldn’t that be so much better and fun?

Lindsay: No, you’re not allowed to have that because that’s my idea too. I think that’s where all of our minds go. And it’s like, what would just be easy? I could just coach people on anything, whatever they want to bring. I love it.

All right, so let’s just dive in. I asked you this before we started recording, but I said do you care if we just talk about the things that you talked about in that video? And, of course, everyone should find your Instagram, we’ll link it in the notes and you can talk about it at the end. And they should watch the video because it’s so great.

But for now, let’s go through some of what you talked about. So what was the – I can’t remember the topic of the video. Like what was the setup of it?

Dielle: Yeah, the topic was, how to stay in the coaching industry and why to stay in the coaching industry and the why behind it. And I got the idea because I’m launching my mastermind called Six Figure Liberation. And I did an anonymous Q&A on Instagram, which is really fun because people get so bold because it’s anonymous.

And I remember I got several, like three or four from people who were already at 100k, 200k, but this applies to everyone, as we shared. But they were saying, “I think I’m done. I think I’m out. I think I don’t want to be a coach anymore. I don’t think I want to do this anymore.” And I just validated that experience. And I was like, people need a certain set of thoughts or they need some options on how to think about what happens when those thoughts come up, when those experiences come up where you’re thinking about leaving the industry, because it’s very common.

And how I think about it, too, is like every single industry feels that way. Teachers want to do something else. Nurses want to do something else. People in corporate America want to do something else. It’s very, very common to have those thoughts and emotions.

Lindsay: Yes, I talk about this with my clients sometimes where they’ll try to, you know, I don’t work with them on the selling aspect, but more like they’re creating maybe a program or their first group or their first something, right? And they’re so excited at first. And then they go out into the world. And even though I’m not necessarily coaching them on the sales part, they’ll just come back months later and be like, nobody wanted it. I’m quitting.

And, of course, I validate the experience, and also remind them that it’s so easy to be excited about something at first. I think this is like entrepreneurship in general, to be excited about something at first, but then the push through after that wears off, right? The push through of all the hard pieces that are just hard sometimes.

And I think that’s why your video hit me because in that moment I was, of course, I wasn’t actually considering it. It was just a very dramatic moment in my mind. But I was like, oh, this is like, what’s the word? Like serendipity or something because it’s like I get on and it’s like, why you need to stay in the coaching industry. Oh, okay. I’m going to listen to Dielle tell me why.

And then you addressed it from the standpoint of the four things, the four reasons that people are considering it, or the four things they don’t have.

Dielle: Yes.

Lindsay: And the first one was one of my favorites.

Dielle: Yeah, it’s one of mine too.

Lindsay: Okay, so what was it?

Dielle: It’s about having a movement and why you need to have a movement in this industry. And how I talk about having a movement is we’re all selling group offers, memberships, one on one, these very tactical things in our coaching businesses. But what if people don’t buy those things, they actually buy a movement, they buy a mission, they buy a change, right?

When I think about a movement, like something changes, something goes from A to B, and what if that’s the whole reason why we’re in this industry? And I said something on that Live that I didn’t plan on saying, which is like our clients are happy that we exist because we help them create a change in their life. Whatever your niche is, whatever your offer is, our clients are happy that we exist, that our offer exists, that our work exists, that we are coaches.

And so when I think about having a movement, that gets me out of, of course, me and whatever hard thing I’m going through or hard thing that I can’t figure out, or it’s been a year or two years and I still haven’t seen the results that I’ve wanted. And it makes me plugged into something that’s bigger than me, and that’s something that’s focused on other people.

And when we think about we’re creating a movement and we’re building all this change, the tactics then don’t matter, right? So, for me, I’m really frustrated with my ads and funnels, and I need to create a new curriculum for my lower ticket offer. I love those things, but they’re not the most exciting. They’re big undertakings.

But when I think about a movement I’m like, okay, that’s already happening regardless of the outcomes of the ads and the funnels, regardless how perfect I want the curriculum to be. The movement is already happening. People are still getting helped and served. And so that takes me out of whatever difficult thing is happening or keeping me stuck. What do you think?

Lindsay: Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that when I watched that video, that was the one piece that immediately connected me back, of course, to what I’m doing, why I’m doing it. Coaching completely changed my life. It feels like the most, one of the biggest things in my life that I can look back, so far in my 42 years, and be like this was a point where my life changed because I found coaching.

And so it really helped me to connect also, when I heard you say that. Like, of course. It immediately took me out of my head, out of my problems and put me into thinking about like, of course, it’s like all these people. This is why I’m doing this. This is why the work is important.

And I’m curious what you would say, so if someone listening is like, okay, a movement, great. But I don’t have any clients. Because I know you’re a sales coach, so you coach on this. You talk about signing clients and making money and all of that. What do you say to your clients when they come to you with that?

Dielle: A few different things. Thinking about why you got into the industry too, right? Because we typically find the coaching industry as consumers, like as clients, and then we want to be coaches. And so thinking about why did you first come into the coaching industry. And even if you’re a general life coach, or even if you have no experience coaching too, there is still some change that I know that you’re passionate about, right?

Are you passionate about working with mother and daughter? Are you passionate with money? You’re still passionate about something, and you still want people to change and improve. Or even if it’s just to have a calmer mind, or less anxiety, there’s still something that you want to change within other people, and something that you have experienced change in with yourself too.

So that’s a really good point, movements definitely don’t mean numbers of people, or how many followers you have, or how many clients you have helped get this one specific result. Movements can be just like you talking about the thing that you want other people to have a change in, in their own life.

And as we’re talking about this, right, it’s about other people. And those other people can be followers on your Facebook page that haven’t even reached out to you before. Or just those 10 followers on your Instagram account. It does not have to be the solidified number, or they don’t even have to tell you that you helped them change. But you are connecting to that change, you’re connecting to that emotion, you are connecting to what it feels like to give and support someone else.

Lindsay: Yes, I love that. This is kind of connected, but I think the movement piece, it can even start with the people around you even if you aren’t coaching them, right? They don’t have to be your clients, but just people experiencing you and the way you maybe are showing up differently because you have been coached or because you know about coaching even.

I know my daughter rides horses, I think we’ve talked about this. But I used to be terrified of horses. Like terrified. Before coaching I actually don’t know that I would have even let her ride horses. And now she’s so obsessed, like it’s her life, it’s all she talks about. I can’t even imagine her not living that life. I don’t even know what she’d be doing instead.

And it’s fascinating to think about how different of a mom I am or how different that experience is for just people in my house because I knew about coaching. So I think it’s important for people to just consider that, whether it’s the people in their house or just people that are just watching them change or watching them talk about the work they do, that can be, like all of it gets to be part of it.

Dielle: I love that. I just went to a wedding for some of my college friends. I was a bridesmaid and just me navigating that experience and being with women that I’ve been with in my early 20s where we were buck wild and just seeing the massive growth, like what if that’s the movement and like me navigating that experience? I love that.

And there was something that you said, I wrote it down, where you talked about how coaching changed your life. I think this is one of the main reasons why people leave the industry or have thoughts about leaving the industry, is they forgot how coaching changed their life.

And, similar to you, I remember very clearly my life before coaching and my life after coaching. And how I think about it is it’s kind of like this underground world where this whole network and relationships and people who are supporting one another is happening.

And I think about all the people who don’t know about coaching. Like my sister sometimes gets it, she sometimes doesn’t. But I can tell she doesn’t know about the coaching industry. It’s so vivid to see the people who don’t know about it and who do. And so I say all the time it is a miracle that the stars aligned where I know about this industry.

And back when I was starting my business, it took me almost three years to be a full-time coach. I was definitely not an overnight success whatsoever. And I just remember being like, but if I know about this industry, that means I’m supposed to stay in it. I have a role somehow. Just the fact that I randomly, a friend sent me a podcast, I had never listened to a podcast before.

She was like, “I think you could be a coach.” And I was like, “What’s a podcast? Why doesn’t it have a video attached to it? It’s not a YouTube video. This is dumb,” right? Like that whole experience, I’m like, no, there’s a reason we know about it, and not that many people do. And it’s changed our life and where are we tapping into that?

Lindsay: And here we are recording a podcast. I remember my husband sent me a podcast and I was like, “What is this weirdness?” He was like a very early adopter, he’s into tech all the things. And I don’t even remember what podcast it was, but it was, I don’t even know. But it was something that I probably wasn’t interested in at all. And I was like, this is terrible. And now look at us on a podcast.

Dielle: Recording episodes for a living as a part of our jobs. Lindsay: And honestly, one of my favorite parts of my job. Truly, I love my podcast. And because I get to interview people like you, which is always fun.

Okay, so you forgot about your movement, find the movement, think about your movement, bring yourself back to that. Number two is?

Dielle: Number two is all about wealth goals. And I’ve been spending a lot of time, and I think we’ve had conversations about how we grew up similarly. There are so many things when it comes to money that can be touchy and difficult, but also thinking about if you’re leaving this industry, have you thought about and forgotten all about your own wealth goals? And I think I low key did that.

For me, I had about six figures of student loan debt and the dream for a while was just to be a homeowner. That was astronomical to me. I never thought I would have the credit to do that, the money for a deposit. And I live, I’ve been calling it like bumfuck North Carolina. Literally on my Ring, like the security system on my Ring alerts, its message is like, “The chickens got out again. Can you all help me get my chickens?” I live in the country, so the cost of living isn’t super high here.

Lindsay: This is amazing. We live in similar areas, I think.

Dielle: Really?

Lindsay: Yes. My next door neighbor used to have chickens. I don’t know where they went, they’re not there. They don’t wake me up anymore. But yeah.

Dielle: I mean, and I’m from Baltimore. So when I saw the chickens, I was like, I’ve got to get out of here. Like, I’ve gone too far. My husband is super country. I was like, I’ve gone too far. I need to get out of this situation. But just becoming a homeowner was like this magnificent big dream, even though it didn’t financially cost a lot. So just the identity of buying a house was huge. And I did it. And I also paid off a ton of student loan debt.

And then I think I just stopped. I stopped having wealth goals. I stopped dreaming financially. I just kind of paused all of that. And just recently, I would say in the last three or four months, the wealth light switch for me has been on more where I’m further thinking about wealth and money and helping other people and starting a nonprofit in my family and my parents.

That light switch has been on for me, which is a new experience. And I’m like, oh, this is definitely helping me to stay motivated at a deeper level than just my own comfort, because that’s already satisfied and solved. And so it’s just helping me stay a little bit more motivated to keep growing my business.

Lindsay: What’s the advice you would give someone if they’re like, that feels so far away? Or where do I start? Like, how do I start thinking about this?

Dielle: Yeah, I think the number one thing that has a lot of people stuck right now is just their own comfort, like I said, And so imagine just where you live. Do you want to live where you’re currently living? And if the answer is no, then what do you want, right? And it doesn’t have to go from like zero to 100. Like it can go from zero to starter home or whatever that is.

Or do you have the dream of being able to get a car paid in full, right? It doesn’t have to be anything astronomical. But what is that thing that seems like the next logical step, but not this full blown urgency to do so? And where can your coaching business be the gap for that too, to help you get there?

Lindsay: Yeah. So one thing I hear you saying is maybe let it be a little fun when you’re thinking about it, not necessarily like the thing that you actually need money for right now.

Dielle: Right, exactly.

Lindsay: Which I think is different, right? It’s like sometimes that can create, at least in a lot of my clients I see this. When they’re thinking about money, sometimes it creates pressure in their business. Like a lot of pressure because I have to be able to pay for this thing or do this thing. But what you’re suggesting is a lot bigger than that and just a little more like what would be the fun thing or what would be a thing that you think I could never do that or like you can’t imagine it happening?

Dielle: Yeah, and I think specifically thinking about a goal that’s long term, that’s long term. Like I have an investment goal that’s very long term. It’s not going to happen within the next five years. But just thinking about that and holding that and going for that 100% without the need of it happening right now and the money needs to be in my bank account right now, that’s helping me stay in this industry and giving me a goal to motivate in my business while there also being no rush too.

And so yeah, a long term wealth goal, I think, has been helpful for me and a lot of my clients.

Lindsay: Yeah, I can see that for sure.

Dielle: Can I ask, Lindsay, do you have one?

Lindsay: I knew you were going to ask. I was like, no, let’s move on. Actually, shoot, we’re running out of time. Let’s move on to number three.

No, it’s funny, when you were talking about this when I was with you and I heard you talking about, I think, maybe investing goals or something, it came up somehow. And it really got me thinking. And I’ve said this recently, but this really put kind of a picture to it for me, there’s something like I feel like I’ve hit a ceiling of kind of like my beliefs of what I thought was possible.

Years ago when I was dreaming about what would it look like? It’s like, oh, it’s kind of like I’ve checked, I’m going to say checked in quotes. I’ve checked a lot of the boxes of things that just totally blew my mind that I maybe never thought would happen. Not from my business anyway. Like I thought, well, my husband is getting his MBA. He’s going to make a lot of money for sure. That will be great.

And yeah, so I think right now I’ve been just having fun exploring it and thinking about it. I do work with Keena, I think maybe you do, too?

Dielle: I do, yes.

Lindsay: Okay, and I talked about her on my last podcast. So if they listened, they know who I’m talking about. But she’s really got me thinking about retirement and like how much money would be amazing to have? And just taking my brain there, I notice like, oh, this is a muscle I haven’t kind of stretched in a while.

So I don’t know. I don’t have an exact answer for it, but it does feel like, oh, it has become more fun to think about investments and saving for retirement, which before it was always like, oh, no, no, no, that’s for later. We don’t have anything. That’s not for us, at least right now, was always my thought. Like that’s later, later, later. And then I’m like, oh, I think it’s later. Maybe it’s right now. So I think that’s one of the main things.

Dielle: Yeah, and I think it’s such a topic that we want to push off, especially when it doesn’t have anything to do with our immediate needs or immediate family. But to your point, it’s just been fun to put that on the table and, I think, a little bit expensive, right?

When we think about people who want to leave the industry or want to stop, they often feel closed off and constricted. But when we think about wealth, we expand a little bit more. And then everyone can feel that energy.

Your clients can feel that energy, our team, if you have one, can feel that energy. Just the people who are following you and seeing you plugged into something that’s long-term, they can feel that energy too. So just exactly what you’re saying, just the exercise of it can be really powerful.

Lindsay: One thing, I did remember one actually that I have been thinking about as you were talking, that just feels like wild. It’s almost like I’m embarrassed to say it, which is so silly because I think I know people who do similar things already.

But now that my kids are getting older, old enough to remember everything like vacations and stuff like that, I’ve just had the thought that it would be so fun to go places for a month, like in the summer, right? To just have a long-term rental for a month and just show them the world, which is just stuff that I never got to do at all when I was young. So it just feels like that, to me, is like mind blowing and also just really exciting to think about.

Dielle: I love that. I follow a creator, she’s all about evergreen courses, Gemma Bonham-Carter is her Instagram and her brand. And she was living in Canada and she just got her family house and they’re doing a nine month sabbatical in France. And I was just like, that’s life changing for those kids and the memories you’re going to make. And it doesn’t have to look like a bigger house or a bigger car, it could also just be experiences too.

Lindsay: Yes, I love to travel. And the most fun part for me, at least at these ages where my kids are right now, is seeing them be amazed by things, right? Like what? Especially because we live in Indiana, which isn’t the most exciting area to live. But all of our family is here so we’re staying for now. But because of that, there’s this thought it’s like let’s go show them all the possibilities though so they don’t think like this is just it.

And I love being in one place for a longer period of time where you really get to kind of settle in and know the area. So, yeah, goals, I’ll let you know.

Dielle: I love it.

Lindsay: Okay, so the third one is maybe a success, would you call it success intolerance or thinking like you don’t have what it takes to do the thing that you want to do?

Dielle: It’s really like impostor syndrome, but put a spin on the online coaching industry, of course. I just remember feeling when I was making my first six figures and then seeing all the millionaires being like, there is just no way on earth that I can ever be them. And that’s important to note, like them, like having a business like them, showing up like them, doing the things that they do, right?

Whenever we see these big coaches, we look at their business models, we hear them talk about their teams, we hear them go through really difficult things and go through media issues and having PR crises. So many different people on so many different levels, both internal and external. And just seeing all those things I’m like, I’m not going through that. That’s just my gut reaction to be like, no, I will intentionally stay small and maybe even bow out before I look like that, right?

And I’ve just been noticing that mindset with myself recently. And I just had to think about well, Dielle, what if you did have what it takes to do whatever you think that they’re doing, number one. And then number two, also thinking about what if your version of that looks nothing like theirs, right? What if it looks nothing like that?

And so it’s comparison, it’s imposter syndrome, it’s a lot of different things. But basically, you see what success looks like in the coaching industry and you don’t think you have the qualities or even the desire to want to look like that. But, A, what if you do have the potential to handle the things that they go through and do the things that they go through? And then number two, also, what if your journey looks nothing like them? You can hit your goals without looking anything like them in the same breath?

Lindsay: Yeah, I think this is the one that really hit me when I was watching your video. Because now that we’re saying it I can kind of remember what the thing was that took me out that day. I was just like, that’s it, I quit. And it’s interesting, because when I think back to the beginning of my business, it was more like will I be able to run a business like that, right? Will I be able to make the money? Will I be able to sign two clients or five clients or 10, or whatever, right? And it just kept kind of increasing.

And now I’m like, okay, on the business side, it feels like a struggle sometimes. But for the most part, it’s like, I know, it feels figure-out-able. And I think where I am now, now it’s just switched topics. So now it’s like, well, how do they handle people being mad at them? How do they handle that, on that scale, right? And I think I just have this thought sometimes that’s like, I’m too sensitive for that. I’m just out, I’m done.

I’m curious if that comes up for you? Or if there’s another version of that that happens for you?

Dielle: Yes, I think I’m too sensitive, which I’ve been working on with my life coach for like the past year. I also think, like the way it articulates in my head is like I’m not strong enough. Like that will break me, it will end me, it will put me out of business, right?

Lindsay: For sure. Yep, like I’ll be forced to quit almost.

Dielle: Right, like I can’t recover from it. Like I’m just completely out of it. And then I’ve had little mini instances of that recently and I’ve been shocked at how I’m still in business. And I’ll say this, this is the first time I’ve talked about it publicly, but I had my own Reddit thread recently. And I wasn’t trying to look for it. I wasn’t trying to look for it. I always tell people, they’re like, don’t go looking for the Reddit threads. I wasn’t looking.

I put my program name in Google because I was trying to find something and I saw it popped up. And I was like, oh. And it was number six, I was like, oh, this is highly ranked. And so I looked at it, I saw it. It wasn’t that bad. And I actually said, you know what? I want to respond. Like there’s some blatant things that are literally not true in this. And I have the receipts in black and white to show that it’s not.

And so I actually responded and then people responded back being like, this was such a graceful statement. This was so eloquent. And I was like, yeah, this one it is, but if I were to do this in another context it may not be. And now like everybody on this episode is going to go find it. That’s fine too. Lindsay: That’s great, that’s great.

Dielle: It’s fine, yeah. I stand by what I said. But in that moment, I was actually at a business event and it happened in the morning. Within about a whole hour time span I responded, I saw their responses and I was like, okay, great. And I was like, oh, I survived my first Reddit thread and I didn’t carry it with me. I wasn’t worried about it. And it kind of felt like I took the band aid off. I’m like, oh, I’m not afraid of this anymore.

So it’s a little bit like aversion therapy, if you will, where you jump into the deep end and you learn how to swim. But I think the angst of the negative things happening is definitely worse than when it actually does, for sure.

Lindsay: I mostly agree with that. I think every once in a while there’s something that just feels like I’m actually pretty good at reading stuff about myself or hearing stuff about myself. But every once in a while it’s like if I know, it’s like a very specific topic or maybe the person who’s saying it or something, it’s just like, oh, it just hits different and feels different. And it’s like, okay.

I think where my mind goes sometimes is like, okay, but what is this like times 10, right? Which is probably not a useful thought. But I think I do agree with you that every time I see it, I’m like, okay. It just feels like I’m getting stronger with each one. Like, okay, maybe I’m not that sensitive. Because really, who does like stuff like this? Probably no one. I don’t think anyone’s like, “Yay, this is amazing,” celebrating it.

Dielle: Yeah. And I remember, this was years ago, maybe 2020, when Rachel Rodgers announced her home, the Rachel Rodgers ranch. And I remember she was going live and she got a question like, how are you dealing with the haters? And people were like, “Oh my God, why would someone hate a black woman building wealth?” And she was like, “Oh no, y’all, there’s literal Facebook groups designed out there to take me down.”

And I just remember seeing the calm on her face and I just remember seeing that it is what it is, I’m still going to celebrate. And I think back to that moment so often. Like this is a part of growth and this is a part of scaling. And if they’re able to do it, I can too. So that helps a lot.

And I do think it still sucks. You get used to it, but it still sucks. Like you said, It’s still painful. But also, I feel a lot more prepared for it now, whereas I felt like, unfortunately, with a lot of people who were getting to that level, I think they may have been taken by surprise at the level and at the magnitude of some of the things that they’ve been through. Whereas I kind of feel like I’ve seen it all, so if it happens to me I’m a little bit more prepared.

I always say the worst emotion is actually shock. That’s actually the emotion we hate the most. And then it’s followed by a lot of anger, despair, whatever happened based off of the situation. But it’s often the surprise of it that is the worst of it. So I also don’t feel like I’m surprised, which I think that helps a lot.

Lindsay: Yeah, that is actually true. It’s that immediate like, oh, okay. And then whatever follows. But yeah, in that moment it feels like I might actually die in this moment. And then it does change, it over time shifts into different feelings or emotions.

Dielle: Yeah.

Lindsay: Interesting.

Dielle: Yeah, but we can handle any type of success, and we do have it in us and we are capable of it. And it might just look differently, but I think we’re all capable of having the success that we want.

Lindsay: Yeah, one thing I’ve just decided recently that feels really helpful for me, is to just think people are going to be mad no matter what I do. Like there are some people that are going to be mad no matter what I do, no matter what decisions I make, no matter what I create. And maybe not mad, maybe that’s not the right word but they’re going to disagree with me, right?

Like there’s always going to be people on both sides, people that love it and people that don’t love it. And I’ve started seeing, like just kind of watching for that out in the world and showing my brain that it’s true and how many ways it’s true and who it’s true for. And I’m like, oh yeah, it’s actually true for everyone. And that’s okay. Like, it’s totally okay if people don’t like what I’m doing or don’t like what I’m selling or whatever.

What do you think about that?

Dielle: Yes.

Lindsay: I’m looking for approval. Is that a good thought to have?

Dielle: Yes, and I’ve been to that point. I have a little bit more of a cocky or arrogant thought, which is if the coach isn’t happy, no one is, right? And I think about it, because recently I made significant – You were there during this whole process, but I made significant changes to my mastermind. All changes that I now love.

And I just remember making these changes being like, this is really, really difficult, but I know that I will be a better coach in this offer, right? And now, that doesn’t mean that you always have to change it. Like I kept my offer the same for almost three years. And I just worked on my thoughts and worked on my thoughts and worked on my thoughts. And so it was time to make these shifts and they were significant, but small ones too.

And I just remember being like if the coach ain’t happy, no one is. And thinking about it, I will be able to impact so many other people and I will be able to help so many other people when I make the decisions that are best for me and not get trapped in the people pleasing in my offers and in my business.

Lindsay: Yeah, I think it’s actually the same thought just with a different flavor on it because it’s a similar thing, I’m making just a couple of small changes to the next round of my certification. And I think that’s where I landed on it, some people are going to love these changes, some people aren’t. And let’s start, like the first step is what do I love?

So let’s at least start there and then figure out how do we make the most people happy, but also how do we make sure that I’m happy? Because I’m yeah, the coach.

Dielle: Yeah.

Lindsay: That’s good. Okay, so the fourth one is, in my notes I wrote sales strategy. You tell us what number four is.

Dielle: I think so many people want to leave the coaching industry because they stopped figuring out how to grow, right? Like they had a method that worked really, really well for a long time and then it stopped.

Lindsay: Oh yes, for sure.

Dielle: Now they need a new one and they’re spazzing out. And this has been me with my ads and funnels for like 18 months. It’s been painful and excruciating where I’ve done fantastic organically, and now I need to go to ads and funnels and I’m a fish out of water. Like it’s this whole new skill.

And it goes back to the third one about success and impostor syndrome, being like, well, if all the big coaches grow this way, I don’t want to do it. I’m just going to leave. I’ll bow out now. But it’s just staying with, okay, but what is the sales strategy that works for me? And how can I get on board?

So, as an example, with ads and funnels basically I just want to grow my evergreen sales outside of my launches, not to get too in the weeds. And one way of doing that is ads and funnels. But recently I’ve had the nudge to go bigger on my YouTube channel, which also fuels evergreen sales as well.

And we’ve been doing ads and funnels and YouTube together, I’m seeing a little bit more traction on YouTube, probably because of my thoughts about it, not because it’s actually better. I’m probably just manifesting it because I’ve had so many thoughts about the ads and funnels. So I’m just saying that.

Lindsay: So everyone listening, the YouTube channel is maybe not like the solution.

Dielle: No, yeah, it’s not scientifically proven. But it’s just been helpful for me to put on the table there’s multiple ways to get here. There’s multiple ways to grow. I’m going to try everything and see what works for me. And there is a sales strategy to get there, there is a part to grow your business.

Lindsay: I see that a lot, especially with coaches. It happens in a couple of ways. Just in the beginning I think it can be easy to be like, okay, this is working, or kind of working but like keep going sounds may be exhausting sometimes. Or there has to be something that works better, or just that like constant searching.

And then I’ve also seen it where coaches have been successful for a while doing something. And then all of a sudden, because maybe they’re relying on let’s say ads or something that involves an algorithm that we have absolutely no control over. And they’re like, oh my gosh, it’s not working. Now what, right? And I’m like, oh, you just forgot how to come up with ideas and be a little scrappy sometimes when you need to be. And yeah, I really think that happens on both sides.

Dielle: Yeah, truly. And I think it all just goes back to this is a part of our business that we’ll always be working on, just like how we’re working on our coaching skills. Like I’m realizing, even within my programs, like I created one curriculum that worked for this set of people, but now I have all these new people and I’m seeing gaps and I need to update it.

And so the updating on the sales strategy, the updating on the coaching strategy, like whatever these things are, they will need to be updated. And sometimes we like to kick and scream a little bit at that, right? Lindsay: Yes, yes. Okay, so what else? So those were the four things, let’s just recap. Do you want to do it or do you want me to do it?

Dielle: No, I’ll do it. You need to have a movement. You need to have long-term wealth goals that get you excited. You also need to figure out what version of I don’t have it in me, I don’t have what it takes, there’s no way I could possibly do that, figuring out what is that version for you when you think about staying in the industry and growing your business to the next level.

And then figuring out what is the sales strategy and even the coaching skills strategy you need to coach more people, serve more people, help more people to grow your business.

Lindsay: Someone asked me recently, I’ve been talking about this a little bit. But someone asked me, what does – Someone in one of my programs said, “What does coaching mastery look like?” And I thought about it for a second. I was like, that’s a great question, let me think. And what I came to, I mean, obviously I’ve thought about it a lot, but not in the way she was asking.

It was very specific, kind of like how do you know you’re there? Like, what’s the measurement? And my answer for that, and I’m curious if you agree with this. But my answer kind of plays into what you were just saying, which is there’s no there. There’s no like, oh, I’m just here and I’m complete.

I think it is more of a feeling of I’m confident, I can figure this out no matter what. Or I can see how my programs or my coaching, how it’s evolving, and I am confident that I can keep up with it. Or I’ll know what to do. It’s more about the confidence than the actual, like I have an exact answer for every single thing that comes up.

Dielle: Yes, I definitely think it’s exactly what you said. You need to trust your, I call them workshopping skills. Like if you’re faced with a client problem that you’ve never experienced, do you trust your ability to workshop and figure it out? And I think those are some of the most fun moments for me. Lindsay: I agree.

Dielle: Yeah, like I said, earlier, I was traveling. And whenever I travel I get all the ju-ju and I get all the energy and all the ideas. And I remember cracking a code for a particular client and being like, “Yes!” On my flight back being like, I figured it out and typing out on my phone. I think that’s coaching mastery. Like having that moment where you’re able to kind of dissect to figure out how a client is stumped or stuck and how to move forward. But at the onset, you’re not going to know what the answer is at all.

Lindsay: Right. A couple of people who are in The Coach Lab have said this to me recently, and it kind of cracked me up because I’m like, is this a compliment? I don’t know. But they would say some version of one of my favorite things is watching you pause. And I can tell you don’t know exactly what to say, but you’re just working it out.

And I think that that is such a good skill for a coach, to admit I don’t actually know the answer to this or I don’t know the best strategy. Let’s talk about it together. Or let me think, like a pause, and then like, I’m just thinking about what I want to ask.

I say stuff like that and I think my clients are always like, “Wait, what? I thought you just always knew what you were doing.” But I think the difference is I have no panic about it. I have no thoughts about it. It’s like, oh, this is just how I coach. This is part of my process. How could I possibly know the answer to everything?

And my guess is, you probably do similar things with your clients when it comes to sales.

Dielle: Yes, all the time. I often will, if there’s a call that’s happening, a group call but there’s a lot of energy, I’ll often stop the call and be like, “All right, y’all. Let’s all take about 90 seconds and let’s all slow down,” right? Or I often say, “Okay, I have three things, or I have three directions I want to go and I just need a moment to choose which direction I want to,” right?

And I think verbalizing that also just makes it interesting to watch. I think a lot about coaching from, you know, there’s the people who are watching on the call, there’s a person getting coached, there’s also the replay. But it’s a little bit like a show, right? I think it’s fun in a play or in theater when a director comes out and narrates what’s happening in the theater.

And I think coaching can be the same, where they get to see a little bit of that fourth wall being broken. And so that’s what I love about coaching, too. But yes, the workshopping. The workshopping is great.

And I think coaching mastery is all about being challenged as well. Like, whenever I have a new launch or I know I’m going to get a lot of newer people that are not so familiar with my work, I get a little giddy inside because I’m like, I’m going to learn as the coach so much. I’m going to learn so much. I’m going to be able to get like another side of the –

Lindsay: I need to write this down. This is good. I hope everyone is paying close attention because I’m like, ooh, yeah, I don’t think about it like that. But that really does feel very different than all the scary new people.

Dielle: Yeah, right?

Lindsay: So different

Dielle: And I love just seeing a new person interact with my work. Like I did a live event with my mastermind and I was teaching my launch process and I knew I signed a whole bunch of newer people. And there was this table where their faces looked like I was speaking another language. Like they were so perplexed.

And this was a live event that was being live streamed and recorded. We put a lot of money behind it, they flew out to be there. Like one would say it was high stakes. So I remember telling my team like, okay, everyone turn off the slides. I’ll figure out my outline on what I want to do next, let’s just clean this all up. Where are you stuck? What are you confused on?

And I learned so much about how they were taught about launching and their preconceived notions about launching that I never considered. It was so powerful and I knew that that moment made me a better teacher. Lindsay: I love that. Okay, I have a question and we can edit this out if you want because this is your thing that you teach, I think, inside your program. But you talk about it all the time, so I think you’ll be okay.

One of my favorite things that you have taught me, that I have not mastered by any means, I’m still working on it. I don’t know what you call it, but it’s like the Disney like for people on a launch. Anyone that does launches or just really sells their coaching at all, this is useful. Do you mind talking about that?

Dielle: Absolutely. Just like the concept of it?

Lindsay: Yeah, it’s so good.

Dielle: Sure.

Lindsay: It really shifted something in my mind when you told me about it. So just for a setup, I think maybe we peer coached or we did something. And you were like, “Well, but your launches should be like Disney. Like when the gates open, people should be ready. They have already picked out what they want, where they’re going, what their plan is, all the things.”

So I don’t even know what to ask you. But maybe just can you describe it for anyone that’s like, I need to know about this?

Dielle: Absolutely, I love talking about Disney World launches. So I created this method called the Disney World launch plan. And the whole concept of it is people are so worried about what happens when the doors open. Like how ready they are for their actual launch. Where I always think, and I’ve seen so often with the hundreds and hundreds of launches I’ve helped my clients do, I’ve seen that really, it’s the pre-launch that influences the actual launch.

So it’s everything that happens before the doors open that influence what happens on the open cart. Because that open cart is only open for a week, two weeks, right? Like it’s a really short amount of time. But everything before that influences people’s decision to buy during the actual open cart.

So I remember it came up in a team meeting with my team where I was like, I want our launches to feel like Disney World where they have everything picked out. They know the price, they know the offer, they know which training they’re going to do as soon as they enroll, which problem they’re going to solve as soon as they come in.

And I want them emailing and Instagram messaging us responding to everything, being like, “I can’t wait. I can’t wait. I can’t wait. I can’t wait,” just like Disney World. And that shifted completely how I launched. And then I started teaching it to my clients and it shifted how they launched too.

And it’s funny, a lot of my friends at the seven-figure level, we’ve been like nothing really like sweeps us up. Like we want to be swept up in a launch like how we used to be where we’re like, “We’re so excited!” But we don’t really feel that.

Lindsay: That’s so interesting. Yeah, that’s true.

Dielle: We want a very fun, exciting buying experience. And so Disney World launches help with that. And it just, I think too, helps the coach get excited as well. It helps the coach’s energy in the launch as well.

Like I have a client in Disney World right now, she just opened up her cart today. And she was on live video talking about it and she just looked like she was beaming. And it was so fun for her too. She was like, we have all these people coming in and so amazing. So yeah, that’s how I teach launching in my mastermind.

Lindsay: I guarantee you just helped so many people just hearing that. One thing that I noticed, and I’ll just share in case this feels useful for anyone listening. When you told me that, when I very first heard you talk about that concept, one thing that I really noticed is how much energy I was putting into the actual launch, like when the cart is open. Like the open cart section of the launch. And then the rest was kind of like an afterthought.

And when I hear you say that, I’m like, oh, it’s almost the opposite. And, of course, we’re going to put energy into that too, but by the time the cart opens, it almost shouldn’t even matter what’s happening during then because everyone’s already coming into the park.

Dielle: Exactly, yes. And I think in the pre-launch, I see for my clients, the stakes are so much lower because the doors aren’t open yet, right? And so they’re out there creating their content, creating their emails, having so much fun before the launch even starts. And then when the launch starts, they already were in that energy and it carries over once the cart opens, too.

So I think it’s easier because of course during the cart open, we’re nervous. We’re checking our numbers. We’re checking out our stats. We’re tweaking things. But you have nothing to lose before the cart opens and I think that’s where a lot of the excitement can happen.

Lindsay: Yeah, that’s so great. And so don’t keep it to yourself, let the people know about the excitement right? Anyone listening, don’t launch like I do. Go look at Dielle’s launches, they’re incredible. Killing it every time. So good. I love it.

And you know what’s so funny is I really do love watching your launches. It does feel like that. Like that energy that you’re talking about does translate to like, I think she’s having fun. How is she doing that?

Dielle: Right? And, again, I miss – This happened back in the day, I think the pandemic changed how a lot of people sell. But I miss being swept away by a launch or being so excited to join something. But I would say I remember in your first launch, right, like where you launched The Coach Lab, so many people were so excited to join.

Lindsay: That’s so interesting, yeah. And I will say, that launch I was also so excited. And I’d been thinking about it for probably a year and kind of seeding it, right? Like this thing’s coming. Before I even knew for sure what it was or when it was coming, I would just every once in a while talk about it. Yeah, that’s really interesting. Maybe I do know how to do it, I just don’t channel that same energy every time.

Dielle: Yeah, you just fell out of it. But you can always step back into it.

Lindsay: Perfect. I’m going to do it today. I’m just going to step right back in, good to go.

Dielle: Amazing.

Lindsay: Okay, what else? Was there anything else that you wanted to talk about today? Anything we missed?

Dielle: I don’t think so, but just going back to what we were talking about, I just think it’s so important for coaches to stay in this industry. And I think coaching changes lives. I think it saves the world. I think there’s so many amazing benefits to it. And I’ve just been comparing this industry to so many other industries to put everything that people are seeing or experiencing into context, right?

I think on that live video I talked about car mechanics, because someone asked me a question about ethics.

Lindsay: Oh, yes.

Dielle: And I was like, yes, we have car mechanics that we don’t go to that one because we know that they will hit something on your tire and say that you need a new tire, right?

Lindsay: My husband has so many opinions about this. He was like, do not ever go to the one on, and he’ll say the cross streets. I’m like, okay, got it.

Dielle: Right. We all have the ones that we don’t like or whatever. And then we have the car mechanics that are reliable, that are good. And so just even using that example on that live video, people were like, oh, you’re right. We have to treat the coaching industry like any other industry that has its pros, that has its cons.

I even think about what I tell my clients all the time, I’m like, oh, so you think corporate America is better, right?

Lindsay: Right.

Dielle: Like, oh, you think working in a nonprofit is better? Do you think the education industry is better? If we just look at all the industries where people work, where there’s commerce happening, where there’s services and goods happening, there’s good and bad. There’s things that we absolutely love and there’s things that we don’t necessarily care for.

And so sometimes I think people are just putting the coaching industry on some sort of pedestal, when it’s like any other industry where there’s business happening.

Lindsay: Yeah. What do you think about, I’ve heard this a lot – Actually, I have two more questions, if that’s okay, if you have time.

Dielle: I do.

Lindsay: Okay. So one thing that I’ve heard a lot often is, “Yeah, but the industry is really shifting.” Which I agree with a little bit, but I’m curious what your take on that is, if you hear it also and what your kind of thoughts about it are.

Dielle: In the sales world how we’re seeing it is people are saying people aren’t buying the same way, or the economy, we’re almost in a recession. And my favorite thing to do when I get that question is to screenshot CNN articles saying that we’re not in a recession. And also just talking about this is my biggest year in business. This is a lot of my clients’ biggest years in business. Where are you hearing that the industry has shifted because of the economy?

But it’s also thinking about to this point where we’re talking about people are married to their woobies and people are married to the way that they’ve done things. In every single industry, things are going to shift too, right? I don’t know why, but I just got this example of the dentist, right? And how X-rays were the new thing.

And then now you go in and they put the thing around and it does like a 360 of your head and now that’s the new thing. And they had to purchase those new sets of equipment and get training on those. It’s going to keep happening. Or I even think about in the education industry, like the unschooling trend that’s happening right now. It was first homeschooling, and now it’s unschooling.

Industries are going to shift. And this is really controversial to say, it’s not that controversial, but it’s controversial enough. I just think about where we go into this industry, we’ve been given this checkbox and this formula, and then people find success with that. But they don’t actually have entrepreneurial skills or they don’t have coaching skills to serve as that foundation. So then when things shift, and that checkbox doesn’t work, they freak out.

And I just think that’s one of the passions in my business that I really just want to teach people the skills to weather any storm that this industry pushes them into.

Lindsay: Yeah, I love that. I don’t think that’s controversial at all. I mean, maybe some people might not like it. But I completely agree with you.

I just had a conversation with someone about this recently. Where it was kind of the gist of the conversation was, I think business is always evolving. And when you’re running a business, you have to kind of be okay with that. That’s a, to me, it’s like a piece of it. And I think when people get caught off guard by it is when they think it’s not going to happen or it shouldn’t have to happen. Or, oh, I just learned this thing, now I have to learn a new thing.

And, to me, I’m like, that’s just part of it. I think it’s exciting. I kind of like that part. But I know some people feel very resistant to it and it’s not their favorite.

Dielle: Yeah, and I think the skill that I drill down in so many of my clients, and the number one thing I say to them is, you don’t need to be the best salesperson, you don’t have to be the most perfect coach. But the number one skill that I see so many successful people have is creativity.

Lindsay: That’s a great answer, yeah.

Dielle: Their ability to just be creative. Their ability to come up with new ideas. And those ideas may fail, but it’s just their ability to be innovative and try new things. It’s not perfection or doing something right that’s going to get you there, it’s your ability to create and shift and innovate that will help you.

Lindsay: Yes, completely agree. Okay, I said I had two questions and now I forgot what the second one was. Oh, okay, well, maybe we’ll end with this last question. Which might also feel a little controversial, but we’re just going to go there anyway.

So another thing that I’ve heard, I’ve been around a lot of coaches recently in conferences and just hearing all the chatter and hearing people asking me these questions and wondering what my opinion is. And so I get the one about the industry shifting a lot. And then the other one I get is, coaches should really be more open about how much money they’re making or not making.

And as a business coach, I’m curious what your thoughts are on that. Or like if your clients asked you that, what would you say? You addressed it a little bit on your Live, so I assume it’s okay to ask you.

Dielle: I did, yeah. And how it was framed to me in the live video was people need to be more transparent when they’re not making money. And I kind of clapped back and I said, “Oh, we’re already doing that.” Like, I remember, as another example, I don’t know why I’m saying Rachel Rodgers so often.

But as another example I used in the live video, yeah, Rachel Rodgers did a whole blog post on how she didn’t hit her goal, right? And so whatever you wish that the bigger coaches, quote, unquote, would do, where have they already done that? I can rattle off so many people, myself included, where we were like, “Hey, we didn’t hit our goal,” right? We both know people that have been super transparent on like this is a slower year, right?

We have said that as well. So that was part A of that conversation that I said, what if people are being transparent? Like, what if that is actually happening, you’re just not looking for it? No, I don’t think it should be all of their marketing every single day. And no, I don’t think that hurts their credibility, that they’re trying to problem solve and be creative to get to that next level for themselves.

But where are people already being transparent? Like me, personally, I don’t do it every month or every week of an income report. But at the end of the year, I do give a yearly recap on how the year went for us. And so I know a lot of business coaches that do that. And so I do think that’s important, too.

But I also think it depends on your niche as well. Like one of my clients, she has a health coaching brand. It would be not weird, but –

Lindsay: It would be weird. I think it would be a little weird.

Dielle: It would be strange, like how does that best serve her client, right? How does that best serve her client? And when people really ask that, I think what they’re getting to is, I just want to know that I’m not alone, right?

And we’re here to tell you, me and Lindsay, we’re here to tell you you’re not alone. Whatever it is, right? You’re not alone on whatever you want the other business coaches to validate for you. You’re not alone. You’re not alone. So that’s the first section of it.

And then the second section, and the second part of that question is, if you want us to be transparent, also accept when we’re doing well. That’s the part that y’all don’t want to hear sometimes. Like how I answered that question was, the person was like, they should be transparent that it’s a slow sales for everyone. I’m like, who’s everybody? Not me, I’ve doubled my income this year.

So you’re not going to get negative sales content from me, because that isn’t my experience. So I told them, I said, well, what if those coaches are actually doing well and they don’t have anything negative to report? And so also knowing the other side of it, too. Like a lot of people are killing it this year and that a lot of people aren’t. It totally is just up to them and up to their individual businesses.

But I’m curious, as someone who’s not a business coach, I know you get this question, how do you address it?

Lindsay: Yeah, it’s interesting. So first I’ll just be transparent, this year has been slower. Slower, I don’t know if that’s the right word, I’m going to put it in quotes. For me, like my numbers are down from what they were, let’s say last year. And I can find so many reasons for it and one of the main ones is I’ve put a lot of time and attention into Facebook ads, which, shocking I know, isn’t an immediate payoff. But don’t let that scare you, Dielle, everything’s going to be great. You just keep going.

Dielle: Oh my gosh.

Lindsay: We’re on an upward trajectory, so I think it’s going. But I’ll answer this in a few ways. First, I totally agree with you that I think it’s this weird thing that kind of happens in the industry where it’s like, because we’re on social media and talking about our business on social media, it’s different than some industries. Like, let’s go back to car mechanics, they’re not going to be posting on social media, “Oh, numbers are down this year. Here’s how much we’ve made.” Or other industries, that is just not really a thing.

I think there’s a call for transparency, which I can appreciate and I like that. And exactly like you said, I just think there are so many coaches, that they’re not talking to you. They’re not talking to coaches. They’re talking to their potential clients and it wouldn’t make any sense for them to say, oh, these last three months or six months or whatever have been really slow for me. Or here’s my numbers, let me report them to the clients who are watching because they aren’t coaches and they have no idea. Like, they would just have kind of no context for it, right?

Like, I don’t need my dentist to send me reports on how much money his company made this year. So there’s that side of it.

And then I think the other side is, I talk about this a lot, but one reason it’s so important to just find your people in the industry, find your community, your people, because one thing that I have noticed a trend of, and you can agree or disagree. I’m curious if you’ve seen this, but because I work with coaches from all over the industry and many different corners of the industry, most of this seems to be coming from kind of one area.

And I’ve actually had other coaches say things to me like, what’s happening over here? It seems like people are arguing or there’s this whole thing. And they have no idea, like if I were to say something about that, they would be like, I have no idea what you’re talking about.

So I think it’s just really important to also consider what are the conversations you’re having with the people that you’re in community with? And what does that look like? And how can you maybe shift it if it’s a conversation that isn’t useful for you? I’m not saying that we shouldn’t have transparency, because I do think it’s important. And I do think it’s good to know you aren’t alone. I’m just curious if you see that at all, if you’ve noticed that?

Dielle: Yes, 100%. I always say one of the biggest things that I think I did for myself that worked out in my favor was to diversify my communities and put my foot in multiple different sub niches of the coaching industry. Because I promise you, your one big coach that you follow that has a whole community around her or another one or a certification or whatever it is, there’s a whole other side of the industry that you have no idea even exists.

The industry is a lot bigger than we think. There’s a lot of people in it. It’s still in the early stages of it, but there’s so many different people. So also putting things into perspective being like, yes, this is what’s happening over here. And if this isn’t your jam, you can find something else completely in another part of the coaching industry as well. So no, I agree. I totally agree. I don’t think it’s widespread at all.

Lindsay: Yes, okay. Perfect. Love it. This was so fun. Thank you for doing this. I think we talked about some things that people are going to be like, “Oh, you went there.”

Dielle: Yeah, now I’m excited.

Lindsay: So good. Yeah. This is going to be so useful for so many people. I’m excited for all the people, all the listeners to hear everything you have to say because I think, like I said, I listened and I was like, yes, yes, repeat. Maybe I’ll just start listening every day to your live. So good.

Thank you for being on. So tell everyone where they can find you, how they can work with you, all the things, anything you want to tell them. And we’ll link it all in the show notes, you don’t have to spell stuff. We’ll link it all, but any place you want to direct them or tell them to find you.

Dielle: That’s very helpful because my name is a little unique and so you can find me on my website diellecharon.com. And I also have a podcast, I would love to put this audio on there if that’s okay. Lindsay: Of course.

Dielle: Yay. And so you can listen to this over there as well. It’s called The Woman of Color Sales Show. And then I have two offers, my program Five-Figure Freedom, which helps women of color quit their nine to five jobs and become full-time coaches. And then Six-Figure Liberation where we help women of color coaches scale to six and multiple six-figures. You can find all that on my Instagram, on my website, my podcast, all the places.

Lindsay: I love it. Thank you, thank you again for doing this. Such an important message, lessons, all of it and I’ll see you soon.

Dielle: I’ll see you. Thank you.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.