Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills episode 162.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey coach, I am so happy you’re here today. So something interesting happened recently and I want to share it with you. And then that is kind of what this podcast is going to be about.

So, a couple weeks ago, I think when this comes out, it will be two episodes before this. So this is 162, so maybe episode 160, I forgot to look it up before I recorded. I shared some things about myself, some changes I was making in my schedule and some other things. But what you all took away from the episode is how human I am.

And I got so much feedback on that episode. Like more feedback than I get on most episodes. People responding to the email that I send out about the episode, people DMing me on Instagram, and just kind of saying, oh my gosh, I can’t believe you shared some of those things, or this is so relatable, or thank you for being so human.

And I have been obsessing over this. Like really thinking about this and thinking about just the human condition and how it applies to coaches. And how we, even as coaches, even with awareness around our own thoughts and our own biases and all the things, how we can start to believe that other people that maybe we put on a pedestal, or that we admire, that we’re inspired by, how we can start to believe that they’re superhuman, right?

That they have things that we don’t have. That they’re just like a different brand of human than we are. And I see this a lot in the coaching industry and with my clients. And it’s one of the reasons that I try to be very transparent, at least inside of my spaces. And depending on the space, the more transparent I am. Not because I’m ever trying to hide anything, but just because of what the space is.

So in my certification, there is a lot of behind the scenes of my business that happens. I really think of it as like, we’re all in this together, we are peers. I think about that in all my spaces, but especially in the certification, where it really is a true mastermind where everyone is working together to help everyone in the room create the results that they want to create, including myself.

So I share a lot more in there. They tend to ask a lot of questions about, why did you do this thing? Or why did you do it this way? Or how did this go or whatever. So anyway, I try to really be a voice for that in the industry because I do think – And not that I’m the only one, there are lots of other coaches that do this as well.

But I do think there’s this tendency, which is a very strange thing, specific not just to the coaching industry, but it definitely applies more in the coaching industry than in some other industries. I think mostly because we are very much on social media and very much kind of building public businesses, like doing it in a way that we are talking about our results.

And especially if you think about some business coaches or just like bigger name coaches that you can think of that you might think, I have like a behind the scenes to their life and everything must be so great. And their business is so great. And they’re making all this money and whatever.

So that’s what this episode is going to be about, about why it’s not useful to put coaches on pedestals and what is the difference between that and being inspired by someone. And then at the end I’m going to share just a couple more things about myself that you might find even more humanizing than some of the stuff I shared last time. Just a little behind the scenes of like, this is the messy.

And I want to invite you to believe, no matter what anyone says on social media, in their marketing, whatever, everyone has messy. Like there are messy parts. We are all human, there’s no way that they don’t. It’s literally impossible to think this person doesn’t have flaws or doesn’t – Flaws isn’t even the right word. Like doesn’t have these human things or doesn’t do things that I do or doesn’t respond to things in their life a certain way.

So I’m going to go through some things that I have really been thinking about. Like why is it a bad thing that we do this? How does it hurt us? How does it hurt you, for those of you that are listening that are like, oh my gosh, I do this. I just want to kind of talk about like, why is it a bad thing? How is it possibly affecting you, and your coaching and your coaching business?

So the first thing I want to do, though, is talk about the difference between, putting a coach – I’m trying to think of like, what’s another way to say it – like putting a coach on a pedestal or thinking that they’re somehow above you, right? Or they have figured things out that you haven’t figured out. Versus being inspired by someone.

I love being inspired by people. I love following all different types of coaches. I love working with all different types of coaches. I love picking coaches specifically sometimes because they think so differently than I do. And to me that’s fun, like it just really challenges my brain. Not because I’m like, ooh, I want to think about everything exactly the way they think about it, but because it’s just more of a challenge. It’s like, oh, turns out my way isn’t the right way, it’s just one way. And this coach has a totally different way, let me look at that.

Sometimes I love to hire coaches who have very similar thinking and very similar styles of everything as I do. I think there’s so much benefit in both. And I just really love to be inspired by so many different people and so many different coaches and also just entrepreneurs and business people as my inspiration and to really find, like, what do I love about this person. Even when, and this might be challenging for some of you, I know it is for me sometimes. Even when it’s someone that I’m like I totally disagree with this or I actually don’t think that that should be put out into the world.

Now, I can think of some people that I’m like, nope, that’s just a waste of my time. I’m not even going to think about what can I learn from this. Or what could I take away from it? But for the most part, when I see things that I’m like, I don’t know that I agree with that, I really try to think about like, but what could I learn from it? Or what would I take away from it?

I heard this interview recently with Trevor Noah, he was on another podcast and I was listening to this interview. And one of the things that he said, I don’t know the exact quote, but I related so much to it. So just in case this comes up for you during this episode, just know I am aware of this thing that I have.

I don’t even remember what the question was, but he said something like, well, kind of like because of my upbringing, because of some situations that I’ve been in and also just because of my personality, I have a very annoyingly high tolerance of other people. Or like I have a very annoyingly high tolerance for other people’s opinions. And I’m not as likely to argue with people or whatever. My first go-to is like, let me try to understand why they think about this.

I also have that, so just in case. I’ve never heard anyone say it like that before and I’m like, oh my gosh, I relate to that so much. Even my husband sometimes will get super annoyed with me because he’ll be really frustrated with a situation or like, that’s not right, or he’ll be mad about something. And I’m like, but let’s think about it from the other point of view. I don’t actually think that they’re trying to be awful to you, I think here’s maybe what’s going on or maybe there’s something we don’t know about.

And I’ve had to actually really rein that in sometimes because he gets very annoyed with me. And then I’m like, okay, you’re right. You can be mad. So I’ve had to just kind of learn to allow his intolerance for other people’s opinions and notice that this thing I do isn’t necessarily normal. So I just want to let you know, I am aware of that. And sometimes, this isn’t 100% across the board, sometimes I’m very intolerable of other people’s opinions.

That’s just my go-to, it’s like I’m never going to be the first one to say, I totally disagree with you, you’re a terrible person. I’m always going to ask, like, oh, I wonder why you think that. Or where did this belief come from or whatever. Anyway, that was a side note.

So here are some ways that I feel like it really hurts you, hurts your business, hurts your coaching when you are putting anyone, whether it’s a coach or anyone else, on a pedestal. One of the main things that I see that happens is it makes you, so if you think of a coach who you really admire and think of your thoughts about them and how you compare what they’re doing to what you’re doing.

A lot of times, I think it makes you think that what they have is unachievable, right? Because if you’re putting them on a pedestal, if it’s like there’s something special about them, then it can create the thought like, I could never have that or I could never do that, or they have this thing that I don’t have.

And you think it’s not learnable, right? Or you think that way that they’re doing that thing or the way they’re showing up in the world is the only way to be, to create these specific results. And because I’m not like that and because I’ve tried to be like that and it didn’t work, then I’m never going to have the results that I want.

And or it will make you think you have so far to go, right? So even if you think, okay, well, this is really different than me, but maybe it’s a skill that I could learn. But it feels so far away, or I have so much growth. I hear this a lot from coaches, but I have so much growth to get there. And I just always question that. I’m like, what if that’s just not true? What if, yes, we all have things we can work on, every one of us. I’m going to share some things at the end.

But it’s an and, right? It’s a both and. Like, yes, this person, maybe they do have something you don’t have, but the longer you spend putting them on a pedestal and thinking like, oh, they have this thing, I’m never going to have this thing, you aren’t looking at but what is the thing that I have, that other people don’t?

What are my strengths? What are the values that I use to put this thing into the world that are maybe different than other people’s? What are just my unique ways of showing up as a human that other people will relate to?

The second thing is, and this is very connected to the first one, a lot of times when you’re doing that, you’re not considering the journey they took to get there, right? It’s really easy, I’m totally guilty of this one sometimes where all see someone with some kind of result that I – Okay, actually, I’ll give you a specific example.

This doesn’t really have anything to do with coaching, but with fitness, right? When I see someone, I get very sometimes envious of people that have big muscles, that are really strong. And I think one of two things. I’m like, I could never have that. That’s just impossible, my body isn’t built that way, whatever. I love women who are so strong. I think it’s so, I don’t know, it’s just something I think maybe I’ve never had.

I’ve been very fit, but in the past my body just wasn’t prone to putting on big muscles. Probably I’ve just been doing the wrong workouts or whatever, who knows.

That’s not the point. Anyway, I totally dismiss that they, for probably 10 years, have been lifting weights and like that is their job. Maybe these are like fitness coaches, or you know who you are, some of you. I just really can appreciate that, but I totally dismiss all the work that they’ve done to get there.

So just consider, like, where are you doing that, right? I know my clients do this with me sometimes even, because they tell me. And I’m like, oh, but you just forgot I’ve been working on this thing for five years, or however long, depending on what it is.

One of my clients was talking about her email list and I’m like, right, that used to be mine. It was terrible. It was non-existent, that’s where we all start. And I think that it’s really easy when you’re putting someone on a pedestal, to forget how either hard they worked, or how long they’ve worked or whatever. Like all the things it took for them to get there.

And some of it might not even be hard work, right? Some of it might be like, oh, you’re just totally dismissing that they were just born with certain characteristics, right? Or that part of their personality lends itself to this thing. Or that they didn’t have as many obstacles to work through as maybe you do.

The next thing is it might have you kind of hanging on every word that they say like it’s gospel, or even waiting, like pausing something that you’re working on and waiting to hear what they have to say about it. This can show up really subtly, but I know I’ve seen people do this where it’s like, I know I need to learn this thing or I need guidance on this. And I’m going to wait for this coach that I follow to talk about it, because surely they will, right?

Instead of what you could do differently is, go learn it somewhere else. Or embrace that there are lots of different ways to learn something. Or, most importantly, find the ideas in your own head, right? Or to just question it in general. To question like, do I actually have to wait on this? Is their word actually gospel?

I think that that’s one thing that I see coaches do a lot, is when you forget that all of us, including me, including this very podcast that I’m recording right now, we’re just sharing opinions, right? Now, coaching itself is proven. There’s so much research behind the way we think about things, the way we feel, like how they affect the way we show up in the world. There’s so much science behind all different sides of that and so that’s not opinion.

But when we get into things like this, where I’m sharing these podcasts and just telling you like, here’s what I’ve been thinking about, here’s what I’ve noticed, these are all opinions. You can take them or leave them.

What I would encourage you to do and what is very, very useful and is the opposite of putting someone on a pedestal is let’s say you love to listen to this podcast, you love following me. Great. But I invite you to question everything I say.

Not in a way that you spend tons of time picking it apart and questioning it. But if there’s something that you’re like, I don’t know if that feels true for me, great. What does feel true for you? Go there. Allow your brain to go there. Allow me to be wrong.

Allow other people to be wrong, allow other people, allow me to make mistakes, right? Oh, I bet she didn’t mean that. We’ll see if she corrects that later, right? Or, oh, I think she still has some learning to do there. Or, I don’t know, that just feels a little off to me, what is my opinion about that? You can do that without making someone else so wrong that you have to be like, ugh, yuck. Yikes, I’m never following her again, right? Or I’m never listening to another podcast.

I think it’s really useful for your brain to hear things that you don’t agree with, right? That you’re like, oh, let me question this. Especially as coaches, especially because so much of our job is helping our clients create awareness in their own brains. But sometimes when we’re doing this, when we’re putting other people on pedestals, we totally, that goes out the window, we forget.

The next thing is, and this is kind of where it verges into how it can be really harmful for you and even kind of for the industry in general. I think when you put someone on a pedestal, it can go bad, right? It can go, like if they say something you disagree with or you see them do something, you forget that they’re human, you forget that they’re going to make mistakes.

When they do make a mistake or when they do something that you disagree with, it’s like now they’re still on a pedestal, there has to be a different word for it, but it’s like the opposite of good, right? It’s like they’re on this pedestal of, oh, well, I’m not going to do that. I don’t want to be like that. I don’t whatever. It is part of the way our brain is wired, to look out for danger, right?

And literally, there are chemicals in your brain that are like danger. This is danger. This is danger. I figured it out. I figured out how they create these results, I knew that it could not be true, like all these amazing things I was thinking.

And there’s science behind this, where your brain just flips and is like, oh no, now this is danger. And what happens is, now you spend time looking for the flaws. Looking for all the reasons, like all the ways you were wrong about them. Looking for all the ways that they’re wrong about what they’re putting into the world. And it’s very black and white, right?

It’s either like it’s all good, or it’s all bad. Versus, oh, here are all the things I’m going to take away from this and here are the things I’m going to leave. I think it’s a superpower, as a coach, being coached in any space to say, oh, here are parts of this strategy that this person teaches that I really resonate with. And here are parts that I can just leave.

I am currently in a business program that is like building evergreen, whatever. And there are things that they teach that I’m like, oh, no, I would never do that. But I stay and I learn so much. There are things that they teach that I’m like, oh, this is amazing. I’m definitely taking this with me. And then there are things that I’m like, ew, yikes, no, never. But I’m okay with it, right?

I don’t actually believe that we have to agree with every single thing that our coaches teach us and that they believe. That’s just, that’s weird. Why would we? Like that’s just not even a thing as humans, right? This is the part where we forget that we’re all humans. Like, there’s no way if I lined up any two people, that they would agree on every single thing and have the exact same opinions on every single thing. That’s just not how the world works. It’s not how humans work.

And then the last thing, and this is along the lines of the last one, is that you start to spend time really thinking about why that person is wrong. Y you pay a lot of attention to why they’re wrong. You start trying to prove them wrong and doubling down on like, well, what I believe is true, and this thing is wrong.

And it’s kind of like, I used to use this a lot, I used to use this analogy a lot. I haven’t talked about it in a while. I’m not sure if you’ve ever heard this, but let’s say you’re in your car and you’re driving, and all of a sudden all the cars in front of you stop or there’s something in the road, right? And you want to avoid it so that you don’t hit it. And your brain is like, don’t hit that.

Let’s say there’s a car, the car in front of you is now stopped. You’re like don’t hit that car, don’t hit that car. What most of us will do is stare at that car, right? Like this is the bad thing to do, is hit that car. And our brains, our body, brain, whatever just takes over and we just stare at the back of the car. What you actually want to do, which is a harder thing to do in the moment, in that split second that you have to make the decision, is you want to turn your eyes to where you want to go.

And so sometimes coaches even tell me this because of what I do. Sometimes coaches complain to me about other coaches. You should see what this person is doing. Or this person is doing wrong or whatever. Which I do nothing with, really, besides like, okay, that’s interesting. But what I’ll notice them do, or what I will ask them is, why are you paying attention still, right?

If you feel moved to believe that all of this is wrong, that’s okay. Like, they have totally different opinions than you, that is fine. But why are you spending so much time paying attention to that? Just find other people who do inspire you. And what they’ll say is some form of, well, I want to be sure that I’m watching so I know what not to do.

Now, there’s a small amount of value in that if you can just do it in small, like if you truly are doing it to like, oh, okay, this is her opinion. What’s my opinion on this? And you really use it to create more self-awareness. But that’s not usually what’s happening.

Usually what’s happening is they’re watching. They’re like consumed with it, right? Like thinking and obsessing over this is wrong and this is wrong and let me prove why this is wrong and let me talk about why this is wrong, which is why you never see me doing this in my business. And it becomes very much like you’re just looking at the back of the car that you’re about to hit, right? Because wherever your eyes go, is where you go.

Think about that in your coaching. Wherever your attention is, wherever your attention is going, is where you will go. So if this is you, if you’re like, oh, yikes, if you’re paying a lot of attention to what other people are doing in a way that doesn’t feel useful, in a way paying so much attention to things you don’t agree with, why? All that’s doing is ensuring that that’s the direction you’re going to go.

Even if it’s because, like when I say that’s the direction, I don’t necessarily mean you’re going to start copying it and doing that thing. But what you’re going to do is you’re paying so much attention to that, instead of just – Like the cost of that is that you aren’t deciding what you stand for as a coach. Where are you going? What’s the future of what you’re doing? And finding people that you can be inspired by and other coaches that you can be inspired by. Like, how much time is that taking up? I promise you, it’s a waste of your time.

So I hope that this was really useful. I see this so much. I think it’s a really unique thing. I think it’s not just in the coaching industry. I think in our world right now, in general, where we have social media. We have access to so many people’s lives. We have access to sometimes what we think is the behind the scenes that really isn’t, that we start comparing ourselves, that we start like, oh, this person is so amazing.

And then we start to work it up in our minds where this is kind of like influencers or just actors, that’s another good example. And then you learn something about them that you’re like, oh. Like it feels really discombobulating and disappointing. That same phenomenon is kind of happening in the coaching industry.

And so if you are like, oh, I can relate to this a little bit, it’s okay. We’re all human, right? This is human nature and the best thing you can do is just be aware of it so that you can either move on or just know, like create your own self awareness around why it’s happening.

So a couple more things about me. I’ll just share some things, just in case you think they’re funny or charming, or you’re like, ooh, yikes, I don’t like that. One thing is, I am always late. Just ask my business manager or my podcast producer. I used to always be late. And I’ve done so much work on it. And now in a lot of situations I’m not late, but I do have this weird sense of time that always tells me that I have way more time to do something than I usually do.

I have days, this is the next thing. Sometimes I have days where I feel totally on top of my game and like I’m just killing it. I got everything done. I checked everything off the list. And sometimes I have days where my brain just feels like mush. And I cannot, I haven’t been able to really decipher what causes that because I’ll think it’s something and then I’ll change that thing and then it doesn’t matter at all.

And so sometimes I have days where I get so much done. And sometimes I have days where I’m like, I may as well have just stayed in bed. I just shouldn’t have done anything. And the reason I’m telling you this is because I see this a lot with some of my clients. Their vision of me, of my productivity, what I’m getting done in a day, all of that is so different than what’s actually happening.

And I think one of the biggest differences, maybe I meant to say this earlier in the episode, but one of the biggest differences isn’t that as coaches we become superhuman or that we turn into this alternate person that no longer does normal human things. One of the most powerful things, I think, is that we just drop the shame about it.

We don’t spend time punishing ourselves for it. Or let’s be honest, we still do but then hopefully we notice it and we’re like, oh, I don’t have to beat myself up for not getting anything done today. Maybe that’s just how it is. Maybe some days I’m not very productive. And maybe some days I’m super productive and it’s going to make up for those other days.

Sometimes, maybe a lot of times, I covet days where I just don’t have to leave my house or interact with humans, like out in the world. I love it. Sometimes I don’t leave my house for many days. Many, many days in a row. It’s like one extreme or the other. I’m either home, and I might leave to take my kids somewhere, to drop them off somewhere, or I’m traveling. But when I’m home, I’m usually like home.

I don’t leave my house often, which is very different to what I used to be. When I used to feel very, very anxious all the time, I think I see now that I was covering up a lot of my time. I was like, oh, I’m just an extreme extrovert. But really, I just felt so anxious so often that I would just try to fill every second of my time with things so that I didn’t have to just sit around feeling anxious.

Which leads me to my next thing, which is sometimes I still feel really anxious. I am still human, I still have all the normal human emotions. Some days the anxiety just starts in my body, I can just feel it. It’s probably hormones and chemicals and all the things and it’s just like, here we are, this is just my body feeling really restless.

The difference between now and how I used to experience it, is that now I can just tell myself this is just my body feeling really restless. This is just anxiety. Versus before it was like, oh no, this is bad. It has to go away. It was like all resistance to it.

Now, I’ve also learned to manage a lot of my thoughts and a lot of the whatever to the point that I don’t create my own anxiety as often. But I still experience the kind that starts in my body, right? Just the chemicals and hormones. And I still feel anxious about my thoughts sometimes too, just not as often. And I don’t let them spiral out of control.

The last thing is I do things that are really irrational, right? Like, I’m supposed to be so aware of my own mind and my own thoughts and all the things. And I was thinking, what’s an example of this? And just this morning I was laughing at myself because one thing that I do that is ridiculous, like really ridiculous, is I spend so much money on skincare.

And, you guys, I’m literally allergic to everything. Like the reason I’m laughing about it today is literally just yesterday I ordered some new stuff. And this morning I was like, I’m going to be allergic to it. Why did I do that? So sometimes I’m like, there’s this new thing and it’s going to be different this time. And it’s just usually not. I usually react to it. It’s usually not a good thing.

And I do think so much of that stems from just growing up with really bad skin. I used to break out a lot and I still do break out sometimes as an adult. I’m like, This is so ridiculous. And I’m always looking for what is the secret? Like there has to be some magic trick that I just don’t know about. And so I just buy more things and more things, and then I never use them. And my close friends know this because they’re the lucky recipients of all the skincare that I buy that I can’t use.

And that’s a silly example, but it’s just like one example of how our defaults, like if you don’t catch it, sometimes I catch myself and I’m about to order something and I’m like, okay, no, this is so silly. Don’t do that. And sometimes I just don’t because I’m human. This is what humans do. I have a human brain, just showing up in the world with all my flaws and all my quirks.

Which leads me to the very last thing, which is that sometimes I’m really awkward. For those of you that have met me in person, if you listen to my podcast you might not, maybe you do think that but you probably don’t. I’ve had a couple of people tell me like, oh, you’re really weird sometimes or you’re really awkward. I am. It’s true. I didn’t used to be, or maybe I always have been. Maybe I just have more awareness of it now or I just embrace it more than I used to. That could be it.

But yeah, I am awkward. You can be super awkward and weird around people and also be a great coach. You can do all the things that I just said, you can have your own things, whatever those things are, and be a really great coach. And I think one thing just to consider if you’re like, oh yeah, that’s me, is there’s always the line between accepting it about yourself and then just deciding, oh, this is something I do want to change. It’s something I do want to work on. Not because I’m not good enough now, but because I just want to.

At one point I just decided I don’t just want to be the person that’s late all the time, and so I changed it. I really did something about it. Every once in a while it still sneaks up on me, but it’s way different than it used to be. My family used to call it Lindsay time. She’s on Lindsay time, it’s fine, she’ll be here in half an hour, whatever.

Anyway, I hope this was helpful. I just want you to receive this in the most loving way. If you’re like, oh, I do that a little bit. I put people on pedestals, I put coaches on pedestals, we all do it. It’s totally okay. And I just want you to recognize where it might be distracting you or taking time away from your own brilliance, work, your own genius, your own expertise as a coach. All right, I love you. I’ll talk to you next week. Goodbye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.