Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills, episode 114

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey coach, happy, happy New Year. I am so glad that you’re here today. And I have something so fun for you, but first I have to tell you, December at Lindsay Dotzlaf Coaching was a little hairy. I was all about celebrations, right? And then I got sick. And then I got sick again, and then pretty much got sick again. And next thing you know, the whole month was pretty much over.

So I appreciate you hanging in here with me last week. That was not the planned episode, but it was one of my most listened to episodes. So hopefully you got a chance to either listen for the first time or to re-listen and get some new knowledge.

And I want to give a huge shout out to Sheri Strzelecki, thank you so much, Sheri, for recording that intro for me. For all of you listening, I had zero voice and I was a little panicked trying to figure out what I was going to do because, obviously, could not record for you with no voice. And Sheri stepped in and recorded the intro. So thank you to her, thank you all for being patient.

And today’s episode is incredible. It is not actually the first episode I had planned for the year. So if you’re listening in real time, this is not the happy New Year episode I had planned. But what I do love about it, I did record it, it was supposed to come out in a couple of weeks. And it is an interview with a client of mine, Erin Gray. And she is actually not my client currently. She is someone that I worked with when I was a one-on-one coach.

And I decided about a month ago, you know, when I was thinking about December and all the celebrations and all of the things that we are celebrating and talking about, one thing that comes up a lot in my spaces, in the Coach Lab and in Coaching Masters, mostly in Coach Lab is I think we forget, like when we really get in the weeds about like how do I explain what coaching is?

How do I sell someone on coaching? How do I tell them what it is? How do I tell them the difference between coaching and therapy, or coaching and you know, whatever, anything else. I think it’s so easy to forget the magic of coaching and how our clients, like truly how we help our clients change their lives with the most simple coaching tools. So I really want this episode to be a reminder to you of just the celebrations of coaching.

So when I coached Erin I was mostly a one-on-one coach. I was working with a lot of coaches at that point. And so we kind of coached on everything in her life. So this episode, I’ve watched her since then make so many changes and so many, like step into so many of the goals, so many things we talked about when she was my client and when we were coaching on kind of all the things in her life. It has been my pleasure, it has been so amazing, so fun to watch her.

And I wanted to have her on to share with you and to, like really the point of this episode is for you to soak in, oh my gosh, coaching is incredible. And let go of all of that other drama that you’re having around it, if you are. And if you’re not, perfect, just enjoy this and celebrate with us the magic of coaching.

Lindsay: Hello, I am so excited to have you here today. Tell everyone who you are, what you do, anything else you want to tell them.

Erin: Who I am, Erin Gray. And I am someone who has a lot of fun, enjoys her life. And what I do is me and my business partner are creating a community. It’s really for us and for all of humanity, where we get to come and play and heal and learn about ourselves, and have fun, and travel, and all the things.

Lindsay: Okay, we will dive more into that. But first I want to say one reason that I’m having you on here today, which we already talked about a little bit before we started recording. But one reason that I am having you on, you were my client, I’m doing a couple of these interviews. You were my one-on-one client, you don’t work with me now, which is, I guess, fine. I’m just kidding, of course it’s fine.

But you were my one-on-one client and I really thought about like a couple clients who just could come on and just celebrate the power of coaching because I’ve just seen, because we’ve stayed in touch and we chat every once in a while, and I’ve seen crazy, amazing changes that you have made in your life since we, while we were coaching, but then since then it just has continued and continued.

And I just wanted to have this conversation because I think it’s so powerful for coaches to like get out of their head about like what’s the exact perfect way to do the thing, and just remember how exciting it is that we get to do this job.

Erin: And my response to that is we have to get out of our head and into our bodies. Which I think if you are a rational, logical, this is coming from old Erin, a very rational, analytical person, that’s fucking terrifying.

Lindsay: I think this is why it’s so fun for me to watch you, is you have literally changed everything about yourself, including this.

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: Like you have noticed every area of where you’re like, “Oh, I see some discomfort here. Let’s lean into it.”

Erin: Yes. But that is, for me, for Erin, right? And this is something that I had to realize. I had to stop looking at what everyone else was doing. And I had to actually go in and be like, “What does Erin want?” Right?

There are things that Erin loves, which you’ve seen on Instagram where Jason and I were talking about how I do love luxurious things, right? And also, I could give two shits about what I wear, right? Like I don’t spend any, hardly any time or money on what I wear. I have more bathing suits than I have anything else, right?

And so it was really a coming back into myself and knowing like what does Erin want? And I think a lot of times in society, right, like we look outward to see what is everyone else doing? And we don’t check in with like what do we want? What feels good for us? What feels, in our bodies what feels true to us? And we operate a lot from our head.

Lindsay: Okay, so I want to paint the picture, before you give too much away. I want to paint a picture of kind of who you were when you hired me, and I’ll tell you like I have a very distinct memory of our consult. So who you were then and then all the things that have changed and kind of who you are in the world now.

Erin: Okay.

Lindsay: Is that okay?

Erin: Yeah, I’m like I want to know your picture, because it probably was very stringent.

Lindsay: Yeah, Well, so I remember, I don’t even remember how we knew each other or how you found me. But I remember getting on the consult and you kind of saying like, well I think that I, I can’t even remember if it was like I want to be a coach or I am a coach and I’m like just getting into this. But I also work full-time for my family’s business.

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: Because you’re an accountant.

Erin: Well my training is a certified financial planner, but I basically did like CFO stuff. All of that stuff for my dad’s and family’s business.

Lindsay: Yes, for your family’s business. And so we did a whole consult and we talked a lot about, because at that point it was kind of towards the end of my one-on-one coaching. So at that point I was working with quite a few coaches. But I tended to attract people that wanted coaching on that, but also just wanted kind of general life coaching, because that’s a lot of what I had done.

And I just remember kind of the whole consult being about coaching and who you wanted to be like as a coach, and why you wanted to do it, and a lot about money.

Erin: No surprise there. Yeah.

Lindsay: We’ll get more into that. But then at the very end, I don’t remember exactly what I asked you, and you can definitely correct me because this is just –

Erin: No, tell me. I’m like I’m waiting on bated breath. Is that the word? I’m like, tell me, tell me.

Lindsay: Yeah, it’s just the thing that stands out to me. I feel like I asked you a question that was like, okay, if you could just create like one result from this that would just – I think we were maybe talking about the money, right? And you were like, that’s like a lot of money. And we were kind of just having a conversation about it.

And I said something like, what’s like the one result that would change everything? Something like that, that’s probably not exactly what it was. But you said, basically I want to know how to like leave my family business.

Erin: Yes, I remember that.

Lindsay: And like not be terrified that I’m never going to make money again, or something along those lines. And I was so surprised because it had nothing to do with coaching. Like all the things, I mean, it kind of was connected to it, right? Because you thought that was going to be your path out maybe. But I just remember like, wait, what? That’s the thing? And feeling so excited about it and just like, okay, this is 100% doable. Like we are going to work on this.

What’s your memory on that?

Erin: I totally remember the consult. Like I already knew, this is where it’s like I really leaned into my intuition. And looking back, like I knew you were going to charge 10,000. I had already like wrapped my mind around it. And what I’d known and what I was brought up with is like that wasn’t growth edge for me. Like paying $10,000 was not a like, “Oh my goodness,” right? My family has taught me to invest in yourself, invest in the business, invest in all of that, right? Like so that was a total like, fine, right?

It was like leaving and having that knowing that you are capable of generating money yourself. And all the disappointment that I thought I would, you know, we don’t cause anyone’s feelings, right? But when you’re grown up and you’re like as a kid when you’re taught like, hey, you’ve disappointed mom and dad, that is a very real thing.

Lindsay: And it can be true that like I’m going to take these actions and these people are probably going to feel a certain way, right?

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: And you knew that.

Erin: I knew he was going to be disappointed. I didn’t know how much anger he was going to have too. And so I knew that that was like an anchor for me that I was like, I had already quit a fix and flip project because I didn’t want to leave my family’s business. And we’re not just like, oh, it’s a family business. It’s like third generation business, like I carried a lot of weight with that.

And so yeah, I remember wanting, like that was the first step, I think, that like, okay, if I can quit this, then what else can I do? That was like my, what do I want to call it? Like my 1%, right? Like that was like, okay, that’s the first step that I can take in being able to create the life that I want. Because I knew, we had already discussed with my dad, like he was a no for me traveling while I worked for him.

So what I really wanted wasn’t going to, or he wasn’t willing to allow that to happen. And so quitting, that was something that I was doing it, but I didn’t love it. So yeah.

Lindsay: And one thing I teach in kind of my spaces, is that the importance of like checking in with your client, right? And saying like, what’s the result? Getting very clear about what’s the result that we’re working towards. And I remember it was so powerful for me coaching you, because I could see my brain sometimes just like, but wait, should we be coaching on her business? Should we be, right, like doing these other things?

And then every week you would come with like, okay, here’s the – It was mostly like family relationship coaching. But there was, like I would just check in with you. Okay, are you sure that’s what you want coaching on, right? Like is this what we’re coaching on today?

And I just think it’s important for people to hear this because sometimes I think we can get in our heads as coaches about like, okay, but I know what my client wants, and I know I should be able to get her there. Versus let me just really check in with Erin and say, what is the coaching that you want? Like what is the ultimate result that you could create?

Erin: Two things. One, three, actually. One, we never know what’s best for our client. We never know, right, the way that our clients can take what we say or what they think about and ponder and, you know, expand on that.

Two, I remember you saying to me, “Well, if you created this,” because I was bitching about how I was always on, always connected on the phone with all the business stuff. And you’re like, “If you created this, you can uncreate it.” And I remember being like, do not compute, do not compute, pause. Wait, what? That was such a powerful thing for me. It’s like, holy shit, I did. I did create this. How do I want to unravel it and uncreate it, right? Which is creating something different.

And the other thing is, it’s all the same, right? It’s as you coached me on family coaching, it also helped business coaching. It also helped, you know, child/parent coaching. Like it’s all intertwined. We want to like segregate or separate, right? It’s all the same. Like how we do one specific thing, that’s how we live our entire life. It shows up in every relationship that we have.

And old Erin didn’t know she didn’t know. Ego Erin thought she needed business coaching. Erin really needed support, and love, and compassion, and tenderness coaching to be able to break free of some of those beliefs and chains that she had lived with, you know, all of her life.

Lindsay: I think something so important that you just said, and it’s like a distinction between, like you said that I said to you, “If you created this, you can uncreate it.” And I do remember that, I don’t remember saying those exact words. But I’m like, those are good ones. I should say those more often.

Erin: It’s true.

Lindsay: But I think the important thing about that is that knowing that you created it, right? Because sometimes I think we just wake up one day and we’re like, how did I get here in my life? I’ve just like been on autopilot, I didn’t create this, it just kind of happened. And that’s almost never true.

Erin: I’m not a never person, but it’s pretty fucking close, right?

Lindsay: Yeah.

Erin: I mean, it did just happen to us because at some point, you know, and I’m not a big like got to go back to your childhood. But in our childhood, right, we were taught not to listen to ourselves. Whether it was from parents, whether it was from grandparents, society, school, whatever, right? We were all influenced to not honor who we truly are and what we stand for. And little by little we, just like a chisel, right, just chisel ourselves down until we’re in this box performing how everyone thinks we should be.

Lindsay: And I think when we don’t stop and examine like what are all the little decisions I made along the way to get here, right? So like how did I actually create this? How did I get here? What did I want? What did I believe about myself? Where was I listening to everyone else instead of my own like inner knowing?

I think just seeing those sometimes can, I think sometimes people are scared to see those things, right? Because they don’t want to think, oh, I created this. But I think it’s empowering. It’s like when you see it, then you know you also have the power to change it.

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: And, of course, we’re not talking about situations where people sometimes are completely out of control, right? Like that is not what’s happening right now. This is like a life that you created.

Erin: Don’t misuse our words.

Lindsay: Yes, exactly.

Erin: Use our words only for empowerment, period.

Lindsay: Yes, exactly. I like to throw that caveat in there sometimes. Because yes, of course, there are situations where sometimes people are not always in control. So that’s the kind of picture, so you were living in Texas, married, you have a daughter.

Erin: Yes. And working all the hours from home.

Lindsay: Yes, so many hours.

Erin: Yep, so many things. And one of the things I’ve learned about myself is like, I love to work. Like when I love doing what I love to do, I can work and work and work at it. Like it is satisfying to me. When I don’t love my work I’m very frustrated, I am very burnt out. And that is what, now looking back, that’s what I was, right? I didn’t recognize that. I thought that okay, building a coaching practice, something that I love to do, that is a desire of mine. And it’s true.

But Erin needed a pause in the middle before she started that. It’s like sometimes, you know, like when we constantly have goals it’s like where’s the pause in between? Like where’s the like, okay, you did so amazing, whether it’s your business or it’s your, you know, whatever it might be, right? Like within your relationship or you’ve done something physically, it’s like where’s the celebration, where’s the breath?

We have inhale and exhale, and I think we do a lot of inhaling, right? But we don’t do a lot of exhaling of like, okay. So for Erin, I needed to pause. I needed to not work, and I didn’t realize that. But what I have learned is people kept coming to me around money. And everything that’s like happening outside of us, it’s because we have beliefs within us. And people were talking about they didn’t want to use their money. It was never I can’t afford it. It was like, I don’t want to let go of this money. And I was like, hang on a second.

Lindsay: Those might be the exact words I said to Lindsay on a consult at one point. I just remember you saying like, “I know I’m hiring you, and I don’t want to spend this money even though.” And you were like the most honest probably of any consult I’ve ever done. You said like even though I have a shit ton of it, or something along those lines.

Erin: Yes. Yes, because letting go of the money, to me, what I realized was letting go of love. And that is like some people hoard things. I’ve hoarded money from a love, right? That’s where this battle of traveling for me has been so much, because if you ask me like, okay, what do you want to do with your money? Oh, it’s travel. But it’s always been this tug of war, because it’s like allowing myself to have what I truly want.

And I think that that is something that I had to, I mean, I had to go deep there and really allow myself to have what I truly wanted. Which meant letting go of the thing that I’ve hoarded for years.

Lindsay: I remember a lot of time during our coaching, I’ve never thought about it until this very moment, but I think a lot of our coaching was you deciding how you were going to break the rules, like the rules in your mind. Like I would ask you, well, what’s something that you would just do like for fun? And you were like, for fun? I go on walks at like 4am or something.

I’m like, no, no, no, something besides that. I’m like, okay, that can be fun, but the only reason you’re doing that is because it’s the only time you have to yourself before you work for like 16 hours. But I remember you said, well I love to surf. And I was like, what? Like it was so out of like left field. Just like wait, what? And you were like, well, there’s a surfing place in Austin or something, right?

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: Something like that. And I remember you deciding like, okay, I’m just going to go there just because I want to. Or I’m going to take Grayson in, or I’m going to do, like you would just make a decision. And then the coaching wasn’t on like making the decision or doing the thing, it was on all the discomfort that came out up.

Erin: The feelings.

Lindsay: Between making the decision and implementing.

Erin: Yes. And I think this might be a, you know, Tonya and I kind of are the, I don’t want to say polar opposites, but I kind of am moreso the empowerment, and she’s been naturally like the love.

Lindsay: And let’s tell everybody, Tanya is your business partner.

Erin: Okay, sorry, yes.

Lindsay: That’s okay. I just want to, you know, so if everyone’s like, who’s Tanya? Your business partner who you’ve created a program with and we will talk about that at the end. Erin: So, realizing I’ve always known what I’ve wanted, but I have always been the one that has kept myself from having it because I don’t want to cause any discomfort in anyone else. So that was huge for me because it was never, I mean, like I’ve said, I mean you can ask me anything, I’m like, yes, no, I know exactly what I want. But how is that going to affect my husband? How is that going to affect my child? How is that going to affect parents or whomever, right?

It’s always been I’m okay, no one else is okay. I got to make sure everyone else is okay. And so yeah, the coaching was always around, yeah, the discomfort. That is what we have to, we don’t have to feel it, but if we’re willing to feel it, then we can have what it is that we want. It’s just are we willing?

Lindsay: So with that being said, throughout the coaching, we then worked up to, I feel like, the kind of end of our coaching relationship was you saying, “And if I could just do whatever I wanted, it would be this. I would quit my job.” I think you even knew at that point, maybe, like I don’t even know if I will be a coach, but I would definitely just go travel for a while or like teach people how to do that, or some form of that, right?

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: And it was like a slow building process, which is why you’re here because then it’s been so fun for me to watch you, that you have done that. So tell them.

Erin: So a couple of things. One, I knew when I hired you, I think, I wanted some help with quitting. And we did that, I feel like pretty quickly. Like I think we, my memory it’s like within three months I was already telling my dad and my uncle, like listen, I’m going to kind of consult, but I’m not going to be, you know, it was like five or 10 hours a week, and you’re going to be on your own, and kind of be like this phasing out.

Lindsay: Yes, I forgot about that.

Erin: I remember that. That felt really good at the time because I was still in the mix. But then when I said no more, then I really had to feel the discomfort of what my family was like. You’re not going to help us and you’re not going to do these things, and all of that.

And the other thing was I remember like we were at the end of our coaching, and I don’t know what, I think that there was a fear in me that was like, well, not a lot of coaches are doing this, so I’m off base from what I’m doing.

Here I was looking outside of myself like, oh, these other coaches are doing their business this way. And I’m like, I don’t want to do it that way. And I remember telling you, I just want to travel, and I want to have retreats, and I want to coach people to live the life that they want to live.

And I remember you being like, that is fucking amazing. And I’m like, almost kind of like I needed, at that time I needed to borrow your belief, you know? Because I didn’t quite see that for myself. And I didn’t feel in integrity at the time because I wasn’t doing it for myself.

And this is something that has always been big for me. It’s like, I’ve got to go first, right? Like if I’m going to show somebody how to do it, or teach them or whatever way we want to say it, we got to go first. And so that’s when I decided, okay, no more building your business, no more none of that. Like if you say this is what you want to do, you got to put your money, literally, where your mouth is and you’ve got to go do the things that you truly love to do. Which was terrifying.

Lindsay: And started with, what? Maybe a conversation with your husband that’s like, do want to do this?

Erin: Well, he has, like back in like 2015 or 2016 I told him like I want to travel. And he literally thought it was crazy. He was like, I just became a firefighter, like what are you talking about? And I just like held the belief. And I’m like, I’m going. I don’t know how it’s going to look like, I don’t know how it’s going to work out. But like this is something that like my heart wants.

And so we just kept talking about it. And then it got to a point in terms of traveling where I wanted to go for longer or go places that I wasn’t going to spend, you know, a week or two weeks in. And I’m like, if you want to come…

Lindsay: You’re welcome to you.

Erin: You can’t, you know, like we spent two months in Costa Rica, it’s like you can’t go working. And I wasn’t pushing him, that was the other thing. I did notice in our relationship when I was trying to push more, there was more resistance from him, right? Versus I’m just going to bring it back to me, I’m going to keep doing what I need to do for myself and he can come or he cannot, and either is okay.

And then it was more like, we joke in my house, mommy, jokingly. And they’re like, “Mommy, mommy, mommy, don’t leave me.” You know, it’s like, well, then come on, let’s go. It’s kind of like get in the van, we’re going. But I’m not convincing you, I’m not going to, you’re welcome to come.

And so that’s kind of where we got to a point where he was like, I’m not going to stay here long term and there’s other things that I want to do. And I think he saw some outward things, you know, with people that he worked with, like it’s the same thing every single day. You know, like what do I want for my life? And so it was just kind of a gradual change, you know? It didn’t happen overnight.

Lindsay: Well and that’s so fun. I think the way that you handled it, maybe not 100% of the time, but at least overall was like you gave him the room to explore it for himself.

Erin: Yes. I think that’s really important.

Lindsay: Yeah, well, I think it creates such a different dynamic when you’re actually implementing the decision, right? Which is like, let’s go do this thing. And I remember, now as we’re talking about it, I do remember that there were like some steps. Like you would go somewhere for a little bit longer and then go do this for a little bit longer. You didn’t just like sell your house, up and leave, and then never be back.

Erin: No. And we talked a lot. The thing that I had to realize is I’ve had a million conversations in my mind, and maybe two with him. I’m joking, right? But like that’s literally like the envisioning and where I would go in my mind and what I would imagine it would be like and these conversations that I would have. And then he and I would have, you know, a handful of them.

And it’s like sometimes we have to give our loved ones a little hot second to catch up, right? Because we have already, like we already know where we’re going, we’ve got it all planned out, or how we think it’s going to be. And we’re like, wait, what?

Lindsay: Yes. Ironically, sometimes I think coaches are the worst at this. Not necessarily in a bad way, I think we just spend so much time in our own heads, seeing our own like truth, our own thoughts, our own, like experiencing our feels and like all of that. And we’re so in touch with it. But we’re not necessarily constantly sharing that with like a partner or our kids or like whoever.

And so I think it can be very easy to like, what do you mean you’re not on board? We’ve been talking about this. We’ve been thinking about this for months. And in their mind they’re like, no, we’ve talked about it like twice. What do you mean?

Erin: Yes. And I also think that through my actions, his belief got stronger. Like he got to see, okay, Erin’s not just talking, she’s doing these things. She is serious about what she wants. What do I want? And do I want to participate? And on what level? And what is that going to look like?

Because I think a lot of times we can talk a lot about a lot of things, right? But we don’t do anything. And so our spouses are like, well, you said this, and you said this, and you said this. And so then it just got to a point where it’s like I’m not going to – And not from an upset way, but like I’m not talking about this anymore. Like this is what I want to do and I’m going to actively take steps, little baby steps, right?

Like you said, it started originally like, okay, I want to go surf in Maui by myself, but COVID happened. But just that decision, I mean I remember the selfishness. You know the little airplanes that fly above and it has like the tagline?

Lindsay: Yeah.

Erin: That’s like what it was in my mind. Like you’re so selfish, you’re leaving your family. What kind of mom are you? You’re a terrible person. Like that was that first, for lack of a better word, like betting on me, putting my desires, and when I say ahead of anybody else, I don’t mean it from a I don’t care about my family. It’s just like this is important to me. When I compromise myself, no one benefits from that.

And so that was like that first shift that I made, right? And then it was okay, then let’s go travel US stateside because COVID was still happening. And just constantly doing little baby steps to get to the point of being like, okay, now we’ve been two months somewhere. And he’s like, I don’t want to travel like this all the time. And then us having a conversation about it.

Lindsay: You were in Costa Rica, right, for a couple of weeks?

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: Which just blew my mind. Like when I was watching your Instagram, which everybody should follow Erin on Instagram because it is very fun to watch. But when I was watching you, and watching the videos you were posting, and watching what you guys were doing, you were like working on a farm or something.

Erin: That was two weeks. Yeah.

Lindsay: Okay.

Erin: So the first month I was like, I want to get good at surfing. How do you get good at something? You practice it over and over and over again. So we just stayed one month at one place and we surfed damn near every day. Sometimes my family would come, sometimes they wouldn’t. But it’s like Erin’s going surfing, so coming or not?

And then we were exploring and I was like, I don’t want to go home. And not from a resistance, but like there’s more that I want to do, right? So it felt heavy and hard to try to find another country to go to because of all of the logistics of COVID. And Jason was like, well what if we just stayed in Costa Rica longer but we went to different areas? And I was like okay, right?

Because here we go back to attachments, like it’s not the place, it’s the experience, right? I love the people, I love different, you know, seeing different things and the way cultures are and things of that sort. So we went and stayed on a farm. I guess a farm, it was an Airbnb but a woman had horses and I found it and I’m like, perfect. Jason, you love to like build things.

So he helped like build the fence, and paint, and help to plant things and all of the things Jason loves to do. Which has been some of his resistance to traveling because he’s like, what am I supposed to do? Because he doesn’t work from an intellectual, don’t get me wrong, the man is brilliant. But he likes to work with his hands, right? He likes to mechanically do things and so he doesn’t sit at a computer.

And I was like, this is perfect, for two weeks, you can help Gato like totally revamp the farm. And he loved it.

Lindsay: It really blew my mind. Just watching that was just like, wait, this

Erin that I knew who hired me, who was like can’t go on vacation, had a hard time taking a day off to like go surfing for yourself in Austin.

Erin: Yeah.

Lindsay: Turned into how about we just stay here for two months?

Erin: Yeah. And like I said, I mean, that didn’t happen overnight. That started with, okay, Erin, you’re going to not answer your phone while you’re eating lunch. Erin, you’re going to go walk around the block because, you know what? I remember being in the shower and telling Jason, “Well, it’s just great that everybody else gets to take a walk around the block during their lunch break, but I can’t.” You know, like this very indignant, is that the word I want to use?

And realizing you can, you’re just choosing not to because you’re placing value on other things more than your health and what you want. It was those baby steps. It was I’m going to go take a walk around the block. I’m going to sit here and not do dishes for the day, they’re going to stay in the sink for the night.

Lindsay: Oh, that’s my favorite activity.

Erin: Mine too.

Lindsay: Not doing dishes.

Erin: Mine too. You know, Netflix, watching a movie and being present with my kid. And this is where I think it’s so important that we check in with ourselves because the, and I’m using air quotes, the work for the workaholics is the exact opposite of what you think it looks like.

It looks like laying in bed, it looks like playing, going outside. It looks like spending uninterrupted time with your kid, or going and having a glass of wine, or going out to dinner, whatever it is. It looks like those things that we have been taught are bad, you know, not good for us, all of those things. And I had to learn how to, literally how to do that.

Lindsay: I think one thing that was so fun for me and being your coach was that you were so willing, first you made quick decisions which, of course, was like so fun as a coach for you to be like, “Okay, yeah, here’s what I want. Like it feels so scary, but that’s okay, we’re going to coach through that.” But then the second piece was you were so willing to just experiment.

Erin: Yeah.

Lindsay: I think sometimes I see this with a lot of my clients now sometimes in my programs, is that they’re like, “Okay, but I just need you to tell me the right answer.” Like if you could just tell me what to do and how to, I think it’s like they’re trying to avoid the discomfort, right?

Erin: For sure.

Lindsay: If I know what I love to do to fill my free time, then I won’t have to experience the discomfort of figuring it out, of like trying something that turns out I don’t really love to do that much. Or going to a country that turns out maybe not my favorite, right?

Erin: Yeah.

Lindsay: And watching you, as my client, like being able to just say like, “I don’t know, but I’ll try it.” I was like, okay, yeah, do it.

Erin: I mean I joke, you know, but it’s like I’ll try anything once, right? Like, how do you, for me, what I’ve also learned about myself is I actually physically have to do it. I have to be in the environment, and I know some of us are taught like, oh, you make the decision ahead of time. Yes, and also there have been plenty of times where I’m like, “I think I’m going to like this.” And I get in it and I’m like, no.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Erin: No, I totally thought I would love it, right? And I can either mindfuck my way all the way to Sunday to like it. Or I can just be like, you know what? I’m a no, and I’m glad and what did I learn from it, right? Like we can look at everything from a place of like, this was so valuable. This gave me the contrast that I needed to now know what I do want.

And I think a lot of times, if you’ve been brought up around like you’re not allowed to make a mistake or it costs you money, mistakes cost money, that was like a big one I had to work through. If mistakes cost you money, you’re going to be very afraid to just try things because you’ve got that money attachment to it, right? But there’s so much learning. Like nothing is ever wasted. We learn so much through doing and seeing what we like, don’t like, want to do differently, all the things.

Lindsay: So that was like the middle. So you were working for your family business, you quit that, you made all these decisions. You made a bunch of changes, you did tons of experimenting.

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: And now, and by no means do I think this is the end, I know it’s not the end of the story. But now catch them up to what are you doing now. Where are you? What’s the life?

Erin: We ended up in Maui.

Lindsay: Swimming with turtles.

Erin: Yeah, swimming with turtles.

Lindsay: Lots of turtles.

Erin: All the turtles. I surf. Here is one thing that I didn’t know I had this, here we go back to like what you imagined it to be. I imagined that I would be surfing four or five times a week. My body cannot surf four or five times a week, and the ocean isn’t always participating in surfing for a beginner.

Lindsay: Yes.

Erin: So there are times that I’m like I want to surf today, and the ocean is a shit show. And I’m like, I can’t surf today. And so here we go back to like me being unattached to like but the reason why I’m here is because of the sun and the beach and the winds and all of that.

So sometimes it looks like surfing. Sometimes it looks like working out. It for sure looks like working, you know, with Who University and building that community and the playground now. And it looks like sleeping in and not waking up at 5am. And it looks like taking my kid to school and doing things –

Lindsay: So there was a piece in there too, that was another piece of the whole thing. I remember we coached on this when you were like, yeah, but what do I do about school, right? Like that was a conversation we had when you were considering some of this.

Erin: Yeah.

Lindsay: And I just remember, and we didn’t work much through it, I think because I think at that point, like we ended working together at some point in there. But I was like, well, I don’t know, what are all the options, right? Like let’s just name them all, what are all the things you could do? And you took her out of school, right?

Erin: Yeah.

Lindsay: You home schooled her, or what’s it called?

Erin: Yeah, COVID happened. She was kind of already going to, I’m trying to remember if she, when was that, if you and I were working together. But she kind of was already, it’s like life pre COVID, post COVID. But like she was going to school two days a week, and then homeschooling the other. It was kind of like a hybrid school.

And then COVID happened and Grayson was like, “I am not sitting on a Zoom call, mom.” And I’m like, “I feel ya, sister.” So no. So we got someone to help us, and Jason and I also did some of it. And we just home schooled for, yeah, like the two years, you know, whatever happened with COVID.

And we’ve always said to Grayson, you know, if you want to go to school, you can go to school. If you don’t, like you told me, right, like there’s tons of options, lots of possibilities. How do you want to learn and live your life? And so she thought when we moved here she wanted to go to school.

So during the time that we traveled, you know, I don’t really do school when we travel because it’s like there’s so much learning that she gets to see. Yeah, we read but like other than that, it’s like –

Lindsay: Real life learning.

Erin: Yeah.

Lindsay: Like just this is what the world is.

Erin: Yes. And so then when we moved to Maui she was like, I think I want to go to school. And I was like, okay, now you know they try to tell you what to do. So just be aware that there will be some rules.

Lindsay: They strongly recommend that you follow the rules.

Erin: Yeah. She’s what, a semester in? I call it the lazy way of like coaching. It’s like pick something, go after it, and then it’s going to just bring up all of the shit that you want. And then you just work through all of those beliefs and just kind of tear them down one at a time.

Lindsay: I don’t think that’s lazy, I think that’s incredible.

Erin: I call it lazy, but you know it’s not. I think a lot of times when I say lazy, I don’t even have a – Lazy to me isn’t lazy, right? It’s like people think it’s supposed to be a lot of effort and you’re supposed to work hard at something. It’s like, no, it’s just this is what I want, this is what I’m going towards, and it’s going to bring up all of the things that are keeping me from having it.

Lindsay: Yes.

Erin: And we can have fun along the way, right? It’s like, it doesn’t have to be this heavy thing as we’re evolving.

Lindsay: I have modules in the Coach Lab where I help, I think helping our clients make decisions is one of the most powerful things that coaches can do, and so I have modules about that. And one of the things that I teach is that it’s not necessarily about making the decision, right? Like that’s not really where the growth comes from, usually. There might be some growth there, especially depending on if they’re like a person who isn’t great at making decisions or doesn’t make fast decisions.

Erin: Yeah.

Lindsay: But the growth is like making the decision, implementing it and then seeing what happens, right? Like what discomfort comes up? Like what are all the things that bubble up to the surface when you actually follow through? Because it’s not about like, making the decision because that’s the right thing to do and then everything’s magically going to be perfect on the other side.

Erin: Yeah, I mean, the decision is made an instant. Like this is the conversation that Jason and I have had so many times. He’s like, it’s just a decision. I’m like, that’s never the problem. The feelings, right, like and why we don’t want to make the decision or why we don’t want to take the action is because what are we trying to avoid feeling? Because that’s where we’re going to feel that discomfort.

Like even that word, like it’s just feelings. We just aren’t practiced at feeling fear. We’re not practiced at feeling shame. We’re not practiced at feeling guilt. And the more that we can become practiced that feeling some of those lower vibration emotions, it’s not a problem. I mean, I remember I used to, like shame, man, that would be like a week or two. I would just spin in it. Now I’m like here it is again, right?

Lindsay: Welcome, come in.

Erin: Yeah, it’s such a practice for me that it’s not as, it doesn’t feel so heavy in the body, you know?

Lindsay: So what’s next? Not the coaching stuff, we’ll get there. But like what’s next for you? I’m just curious. Do you know?

Erin: Yeah, New Zealand is on the list for March. Jason said after I was in Thailand for the month by myself, well, Tanya, my business partner bestie came with me the second half. But he’s like, I’m in for New Zealand. So I think my family is going to join for New Zealand. I think that’s where we’re at right now.

Lindsay: We’re taking a trip there, you’re moving there? I’m not surprised by anything anymore.

Erin: Yeah. No, trip. Anything, exactly. A trip for probably, I like to go for a month. This is also something that as I’ve done it more and more I realized like what do I like. Because there were people, here we go back again like looking outside of ourselves, I used to watch and they would visit a country in like, and obviously they didn’t go everywhere, right, but like a week. I’m like, that is not how I like to travel, right?

I like to get in, I like to meet the locals. And so that is something that that’s how I want to travel. Also our landlords are moving back in, so within a month we need to be somewhere else. So talk about like living in the unknown. Here we are, like don’t know where we’re moving yet, totally okay.

Lindsay: I saw this, I think you were looking at houses or something on Instagram, right?

Erin: Yes. So exploring like where on the island do we want to live? And of course, this is something that I’m learning too, is like my mom is so not okay with being in the unknown. So she’s like, where are you going to go? What are you going to do? And I’ve noticed how I have made decisions in the past, because here we go back to like that makes someone else feel uncomfortable.

And me just being like, don’t know, I mean, we have to go travel for a little bit before we like land in a place. But I’m not going to make a rush decision just because someone wants that or like my ego is like, you’ve got to find some. It’s like I’m not rushing. It’ll come, it’ll be fine.

So New Zealand probably in March and really just present. That is one thing that I really had to embody, is present. I was living a lot in the future and all the plans and where I was going to be, which really I wasn’t living very much.

Lindsay: Have you gotten more comfortable, because I remember this is something we would coach on sometimes. Have you gotten more comfortable through all of this with like your mom, your family, your sister, whoever?

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: Allowing them, so that example you just gave, like allowing your mom to be in that space where she’s like, but what do you mean? Where are you going? What are you doing? We need a plan. You need a plan, right? Have you gotten more comfortable letting her just like be in that?

Erin: Yes, very much so. And having so much love and compassion for her, right? Like I know where it’s coming from, it’s coming from her sense of wanting safety. It’s coming from her like, oh my gosh, my baby girl, what’s going to happen to her?

I used to look at it from such frustration and anger, and now it’s like such love and compassion.

Lindsay: I was just going to say, love and compassion are not the feelings you had about it when we were coaching.

Erin: No.

Lindsay: At least not in the beginning.

Erin: Love and compassion is who we all are. Some of us outwardly show that. And some of us like Erin, old Erin, I think, put up the wall because at some point in time we got hurt and it was, it felt too much. And then that’s the wall. Like I see that sometimes in my kid, like she puts up that wall. And I’m like, I see that sweet, precious heart. Like I know that wall is there right now from a protective mechanism.

So old Erin used to be very frustrated, very angry. And like my mom was probably too like harsh, right? Like I’ve learned how to use my power and my words in a loving way, not from an anger and a frustrated way, which has been like everything. Like if I can say one thing that’s changed, you know, what has coaching changed everything for me, it’s like going from this hardened, I don’t even know what I want to call it, right? Like to this bowl of mush is what I feel like now, right?

It’s just it’s changed everything because you can see the other person’s perspective that they’re not coming, they’re coming from a place of love, but it’s also probably scared and fear. And that’s why they’re reacting how they are. So just, you know, letting her ask her questions. She’s a big question asker. And so a lot of my questions are I don’t know yet. And that’s okay.

Lindsay: It’s so fun for me to hear that because I remember when you hired me, one thought that I had about you that is maybe different than how you saw yourself at the time, is like when you say like, now I’m just full of love and compassion. I’ve always felt that about you. It’s always been so strong to me, like that side of you.

And I think when I hear you talking about this, what feels so amazing about it, and one of the biggest celebrations of like this is what coaching can do, is that now just everyone gets to experience that side of you, without you putting up walls, you know, depending on who it is you’re around, who you’re talking to.

Erin: Everyone sees it, but we have to see it and believe it ourselves, right? I think that is the biggest thing, is it’s changed every, it’s changed every relationship, right? Like, I mean, when my dad was angry and he was mad that I wouldn’t help him, like holding him with such love and compassion, of course, he would be angry, right? Like his right hand person, the person he’s depended on for 10 years.

Here we go back to like in my mind I’ve been planning this thing and he hasn’t. It’s like you’re breaking up with me? Of course he’s going to be mad, of course he’s going to act like a 10 year old little boy who’s angry and frustrated. And I used to meet anger with anger, but now I just, I’m not perfect, right?

Lindsay: Of course.

Erin: But a lot more often I meet anger with love and compassion. And it just feels good. And it’s like resistance is only as much resistance as long as you have two things pushing against it, right? But if you don’t have the other part to push against and it’s just love and peace, I think that’s probably like the biggest thing.

Lindsay: So at some point during these adventures, one of the things that you decided to do was take a trip to Hawaii. This is before, I think, I can’t remember, maybe you were still working for the family business, or maybe you had just quit or something along those lines. And you and your husband went to Hawaii for, I think, a couple of weeks.

And then right after you made that decision, I was so kind as to announce that I was having a retreat in Palm Springs with Daniel Savory.

Erin: Oh yeah, the first time we went to Maui, yes.

Lindsay: Yep. And now, I obviously didn’t do it on purpose. I didn’t know that that was a thing, that you were going to be, whatever, traveling. It obviously, clearly wasn’t on purpose, but that was like a big thing for you, right? Because you were like, I really want to come to this, and I just made this commitment, like I’m so excited for this trip to Hawaii.

And you decided, which I love to point this out because it’s just one more example of you were like, wait, is there, instead of just like, oh, guess I can’t come, obviously. Who would do that, right? You were like, what if I just broke the rules and I actually left my vacation for a couple days, came to California and then went back?

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: I remember you pitching the idea to me. And even I was like, I mean, I don’t know if you should do that.

Erin: Let me also add that it was our 10 year anniversary.

Lindsay: That’s right.

Erin: And I had planned it. I mean, for some women it might be a big deal to like be present on your anniversary, but I wasn’t going to be there. And the whole reason why I booked this trip was the anniversary. And yeah, and then you announced it and I was like, oh fuck, shit. And I knew Jason wouldn’t be upset, here we go back to like it’s never – Yes, our spouses might be upset, but it’s really us preventing us to have what we want, right?

Lindsay: Yeah.

Erin: And I remember being like, okay, he’s not going to be upset about this. But I’m literally, here we go back to money, I’m literally spending X amount of dollars to get us here. And I’m going to not even be there for half of the time. And then I’m going to go spend this other amount of money, right, to go do this thing. And I’m going to be away from my family. Like, who does this? Like the ego was just like, this is nuts. And my heart was like, but I want to.

Lindsay: And the reason I brought that up, I mean, it was just amazing. Just watching you work through that, I mean, even I was like, I don’t know. I think I even told you like I don’t even know if I can coach you on this because I feel like you should probably stay. But you like worked through it and you were like, yeah, I’m going to do it. I talked to Jason, he’s fine with it. It’s like the middle third, basically, of our trip.

Erin: It’s in the middle.

Lindsay: I’m going to leave and come back, it’s going to be no problem. And what came of that? I mean, I’m sure there are other things, but one huge thing is that you met Tanya, your now business partner.

Erin: Yes.

Lindsay: Which is so fun for me to now see that you guys are doing something together and you are now creating what? Tell them.

Erin: The business is called Who University. And Tanya is the one that came up with the name because we always ask, but how. How, how, how, how, how, right? We want to know all of the how. And it’s not how, that happens just naturally. But who are we? Who are we becoming? Who are we stripping away who we have been? It’s all the who.

Lindsay: The how is like the making of the decision, right? The how is like you just make the decision, that can happen in an instant. Sometimes you might not have to gather information or research or whatever. But that’s like I’m going to make the decision, that’s the how. And who do you have to become?

Erin: And I think also too, the how is like how it plays out, right? Like you might know you want to build a business, but you don’t know how it’s going to. It’s just like you just take one step at a time, right? You just keep moving forward and evaluating and checking in, does it feel true and all of these things.

So people want to know how. And it’s like, how is different for everyone. And I remember you saying this at the retreat, you were like, I could give you a step-by-step, which this is old Erin’s analytical mind, I’m like, yes, just give me the fucking the steps.

Lindsay: Yes please.

Erin: I’ll do it, right. And you said, and it won’t work for you. And I’m like, what?

Lindsay: It just won’t work the same way, like there’s just no guarantee, right? It wasn’t like it will never work for you.

Erin: There’s no guarantee. No, I don’t mean it like that.

Lindsay: It’s like it won’t guarantee that it worked like it did for me.

Erin: Because you have to go back to like what is the energy that Lindsay’s in as she’s building her business? What is the energy that Erin is in? If Erin’s in lack and like I got to do this and I got to prove myself, that’s very different energy than Lindsay being like, this is so fun, and I make all the money and it’s amazing.

Lindsay: Oh yes, that is definitely the energy I’m in 100% of the time.

Erin: And I’m not saying you’re in that energy all the time, but when you’ve worked through some of those things, when you come from trying things from a different space, versus I have to get this result, it’s very different, right?

Lindsay: Yes, definitely.

Erin: So we created Who University and the playground, which basically is tying travel and awareness and having a community. I wanted to have a community of people around the globe that could come and we could have fun and we could learn about ourselves.

And, you know, coaching and also like Q&As, because I also realized that there are people that are wanting to know like how, right? How did you do what you did? And they just want to be able to ask some questions like, what does it look like to have global health insurance? What does it look like to like, you know, just some of those. And also coaching is probably going to be, you know, intertwined in there.

But I wanted a community of people around the world that we could go and we could play with all over, and that we could connect. And that it could be fun and having coaching, and breathwork, and meditations, and friends all over the world that we could play with.

Lindsay: What do you think is the number one, or top few maybe, like goals of someone that would be coming into that? Like what are they wanting from it? What are they wanting to get out of it? What are they wanting to do?

Erin: I think that for some it’s going to be, okay, I keep getting sick, what is going on? And they’ve tried all of the things. Because Tanya’s kind of thing is, like she’s healed a lot of health things. My thing is money, right?

So you’re going to have some people that are like, I keep getting sick, or I keep giving my authority to all of the doctors, right? Nothing’s working, these health conditions keep coming up, which I’ve known that always, but I can’t work through it from being from the had it and then had to evolve with it, right? Like I’ve always just been well because I believe that.

So she really focuses on the wellness piece of like our wellness happens from within, our beliefs, our repressing of our emotions, things of that sort. And then I want to have just all of the travel, all of the play, all of the, for the people that are like, when do I get to like, enjoy my life, right?

Lindsay: Yeah.

Erin: And I want to talk about all the money and all the things. Like I want it to be just, money has never been something, you know, when people talk about money in the sense of, oh, well money is evil, I’ve never had that belief. I think a lot of people that have a lot of money thought that money equals freedom, and money does not equal freedom, either.

So teaching or working through that and having classes on that, because I think money for people that have money that are still in scarcity, very much so feel like they’re in a prison. At least that’s what it was for me and people that I’ve talked to.

And really breaking that, there’s lots of books on scarcity and working through your money mindset. But what I’ve noticed is it’s from that place of you don’t have money, you haven’t managed your money, you don’t know how to. But there’s not a lot of like, yeah, you can have a lot of money and you can still feel like you’re in prison.

Lindsay: You don’t feel the way you thought that you were going to feel when you have a lot of money.

Erin: Yeah, really working on that because money is such a tool and we can use it in such amazing ways. And then a little bit of everything sprinkled in. I mean, I want to have some parenting classes because, obviously, with school and, you know, we call them strong willed children, but it’s like is it really strong willed or are they just the children that haven’t been conformed and made to live in a box?

And empowering teachers, and every child is different. And I’m not advocating that you have to teach to 20 different kids. And also expecting all the children to be a certain way is not the answer either.

The long answer is, it’s a sprinkle of everything. I also want to do coaching on parents. Like me as a child, how I’ve been able to change my relationship with my parents. So, yeah.

Lindsay: So fun. It’s so fun for me to have this conversation with you. Just like this is happening in real time where I’m like, oh my gosh, yes. And because I know how hard you’ve worked, all the work you’ve done to get to this point, and you really took it very seriously to create it for yourself first.

Like out of probably anyone I’ve worked with, I don’t know that we’ve talked about this, but I think that integrity has to be one of your top of values that you take very seriously and are like, no, no, I 100% go first, then we’ll see what happens, then I’ll teach it.

Erin: Yes because, and then this goes back to the money, that I realized I and I already kind of touched on this, but as I talk to more people that have more money, two things. One, I know I had to do it first. And I had to do it on, and I’m using air quotes, less money than a lot of other people did it on because I had to be able to –

When you say integrity, for me it’s like look them straight in the eye and be like, it’s fucking terrifying and I did it on less. Because I think a lot of times from the financial standpoint, it’s a logical thing, right? It is like a math thing.

Lindsay: You mean like they probably have a certain number in mind that’s like, yeah, but if I had like, this amount, then maybe I could consider doing this, having this life.

Erin: Yeah. And so kind of almost in a way of like turning that on its head, it’s like, yeah, and I did it on this, so there’s no way that that can’t, you know, I think that the more people that I have talked to –

And I also want to talk about the financial industry because there’s so many people I talked to that have millions and millions of dollars in their IRAs and they talk like they have no money. And this idea of money is for retirement, and I remember you saying this, you’re like, what if you had all of this money for now? And I was like, what are you saying?

Lindsay: Yes, I remember we coached so much on that.

Erin: And so the integrity part of doing it first is very important to me because, like I just said, I mean you’ve got to be able to be like – We don’t know exactly how someone feels, right? But I can’t tell someone, you’ve got the money, quit your job, do what you want to do, if I haven’t done it myself, right?

Lindsay: I don’t know how. I mean I wouldn’t do it, but like you probably could.

Erin: Yeah. Yeah, and I’m not over here saying everybody quit their job either, right?

Lindsay: Right.

Erin: But if someone does have the money and they do want to quit, and they’re just sitting there doing the same thing. Like being able to be like, I have felt the fear that you’re about to feel at the depths, right? And I think too, coaching for me is like me too, right? And not from a commiserating standpoint, right? It’s from a, I know how you feel, I know how scary it is. And allowing people to see that part of me is really important. I think that’s part of the integrity too.

Lindsay: Yeah, well one thing I know and then we’ll wrap it up here, I know that we’ve gone kind of long. But one thing I know is that even from working with coaches who want to quit their job, right, like there’s that marker, what I see happen is that marker always moves.

So like once I make this much money, for example, in my coaching business, then I would feel comfortable to quit this thing, right? Or once I make this much money, and they sometimes make themselves a little crazy over it because that marker, because you think you’re going to feel differently when you get there, right?

Oh, okay, I created this. Which means of course I’ll feel safe, I’ll feel whatever, you know, all the things. And it just usually isn’t true without doing the work of like who are you becoming along the way? What are your thoughts about it? How are you working through it? How are you changing?

Erin: Really what it is, what I had to, at least for me what I had to learn is safety is within, right? Safety really means no matter what happens, I’m going to love me no matter what. You have no money, you move back in, like I had to go there, right, in my mind. Like you move back into your parents, like everyone’s making fun of you. Like I still love me, I still honor me, I am okay.

And that’s really what we’re chasing, right, through all the externals is safety.

Lindsay: Yes. Well, I love it. Thank you so much for doing this. I had so much fun catching up and hearing all of your updates. Tell people, if they want to find you or if they want to know more about what all of your amazing adventures or your business, where can they find you?

Erin: They can find me, I do a lot of personal stuff on The Erin Gray, the, T-H-E, Erin, E-R-I-N G-R-A-Y.

Lindsay: On Instagram.

Erin: On Instagram, yep. And then the Who University is on Instagram as well, or you can just go to whouniversity.com or our podcast, everything’s on the website, and they’re modifying stuff there for us too.

Lindsay: Oh yeah, and you and Tanya have a podcast.

Erin: Oh yeah, the Who University Podcast where we talk about all the messy middle, all the things, and share real life stuff. I mean, our podcast producer is like, it’s like basically two friends. I’m like, that’s what I wanted a podcast about.

Lindsay: Right, no that’s exactly what it is.

Erin: Yeah, sharing the stuff the people don’t necessarily, you know, feel comfortable sharing with the world, you know, behind the curtain of like real life. Real feelings, raw, real and unedited.

Lindsay: So good. Well, thank you, thank you. This was so much fun, and I will talk to you later.

Erin: Thank you for having me.

Lindsay: Bye.

Erin: Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.