Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills episode 124.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey, coach. So before we get started today, I just want to remind you if you’re listening in real time that tomorrow, on March 15th, I am hosting a free masterclass. I would love, love, love for you to come. It is Five Simple Ways to Improve Your Coaching.

Right now I’m going to give you five ways that I’ve seen over the years of working with many, many coaches on their coaching. I’m going to give you five of the things that I see that often get in the way. So we’re going to go over those, and I’m going to give you a few shifts that you can implement immediately. So come do the learning, join us, it’s going to be really fun. And it’s tomorrow, so hop on it. Register, the link is in the show notes.

For today’s episode, I am so excited to introduce you to a couple of my clients from the Coach Lab. As you know, we did one of these episodes a couple of weeks ago and it was so fun. And today’s episode is the same.

We talk about different things than what came up in the last one. And it’s just a couple of them, we talk a lot about coaching about, obviously, the Coach Lab and the experience that they’ve had in there. But just in general, coaching, how they got into coaching, how they think about coaching, just all of it.

So whether or not you’re already in the Coach Lab, or you’re thinking about joining, or you’re never going to join, this episode is still for you. We give so many nuggets on just having amazing spaces to be part of, or creating amazing spaces to be a part of.

So, I hope you enjoy. Here they are, I’m going to let them introduce themselves.

Lindsay: Hello, I am so happy to have you joining us today. This is going to be so fun. Would you love to first just introduce yourself and let everyone know who you are and what you do.

Chelsea: All right. I am Chelsea Simone and I am a general life coach who partners with humans and their beautiful spirits to co-create different realities through clarity and embodiment.

Lindsay: Love it, Jolene.

Jolene: I’m a life coach and health coach for women that are in sciences, engineering and tech. And I help them with everything from confidence and courage and finding their voice to health and well-being and stress management.

Lindsay: I love that. Okay, so first of all, thank you so much for joining me today. This was something I’ve been wanting to do for a while since I started the Coach Lab. One of my things was like, won’t it be fun to just have people on and just talk about coaching? That’s one of my favorite things to do, just like geek out about coaching because I love it so much. And I really appreciate you both being here.

So I did ask you to fill out a couple questions before and we talked a little bit before we got started. But one thing that I’m just curious about that you could share with anyone listening is kind of how long, and I don’t actually know the answers to some of these things that I’m going to ask you so some of it will be a surprise for me. But when did you join the Coach Lab and what was the thing, like why did you decide to do that?

Chelsea: So for me, I believe I joined in maybe, September? I believe it was September. And what encouraged me to join, I don’t know where I saw you or where your name came up. Actually, I do. I’m a liar. I know exactly what it was.

So I have an aunt who was listening to your podcast. And she’s a fan, not a fan, a supporter of your podcast. And she told me about an episode and I listened to it and I was like, “I think I like her.”

Lindsay: Well that’s good.

Chelsea: Yeah. So I was like, okay, let me listen to this podcast. And then I listened to it and I was like, “Oh my gosh, I do like her. She’s so chill.” And then I just went down the rabbit hole. Lindsay: I love that. Well, we are so glad that you joined. Was there something specific, like anything specific besides I just like her? Or was that, was it just that simple? Like yeah, I just want to be in this community.

Chelsea: It was the delivery. Your personality with the delivery of the content, like talking about the skills and like all the minute things. The way that you delivered it was something that I hadn’t experienced before. It was very laid back. That’s my favorite thing, it was just very laid back and simple. The simplicity of the skills and all the little things in a coaching practice that most of us think about, and you just delivered it very plain and simply.

Lindsay: Thank you. I love that. All right, Jolene, how about you?

Jolene: I started listening to your podcast shortly after it came out. I think you had three episodes that sort of came out close to each other. And I really, I just loved it because I was just new to coaching.

And I found the coach certification that I started with, while it was really good, I really enjoyed it, it was just a lot.

There were so many worksheets and so many tools. And it felt very overwhelming and complicated and almost like, okay, what do I do? There’s like a flow chart, and how do I follow the flow chart?

And then I listened to your podcast and it just totally calmed me down. And so I’d been following your podcast for quite a while and never was able to commit to Coaching Masters, just financially. And then when you said that you were having the Coach Lab I was like, “Oh, I’m in.” It wasn’t like a question as much as I was curious what you were going to offer, obviously, but I just trusted you at that point that whatever it was was going to be good and useful.

And I think the same thing as what Chelsea said, just I knew I needed a way to simplify things. And also, I wanted to expand my coaching from just nutrition and health. I wanted to do more and expand my skills to be more like the general life coaching because I could see how helpful that would be even for health goals or any goals.

So I wanted those core skills that you talked about. I wanted to practice those in a simple way that felt authentic to me and not just like going through someone else’s flowchart.

Lindsay: I love that you said that. I think I’m talking to so many different coaches, one thing I noticed is that, obviously, I have not been through all the coach trainings. I’ve been in coach trainings, a couple of them. And I have my experience, but just listening to everyone’s experience, it’s one of two things.

It’s either like, I don’t know, I learned this kind of one tool or one thing and that’s all of it. And then it’s like, how do I coach outside of that? Or like, okay, now, what do I do with that? Or it’s the exact opposite, which is like I learned 5,000 tools, and now what in the world do I do with all of them?

And I think that that was one of the main reasons when I started thinking about the Coach Lab, it was very like what’s the middle ground, right? What are just the basic tools, the simple things that every coach needs without all of this extra added confusion? So I love that you mentioned that. And I’m glad that that’s been your experience.

What would you say, we’ll start with you, Chelsea, what has been, so far, kind of your biggest takeaway from just being in the Coach Lab?

Chelsea: My biggest takeaway, so far, has definitely been you get to just make this shit up. You get to create whatever you want to create. It’s completely up to you. You get to integrate all the skills and techniques and certifications and your personality to create this body of work that is completely individual to you.

And really, you don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do, which is something I get coached on often. I come in and I’m like, “I don’t want to do that.” And you are like, “Okay.” And I’m like, “Oh, I don’t have to do that?” That has definitely been my biggest takeaway, you get to do whatever you want to do and just make it unique for you.

Lindsay: Yeah, I think that’s one of the hardest things sometimes about being an entrepreneur of any kind, but especially in the coaching realm, which is a fairly new area, right, and a fairly new space in kind of the mental health arena, I would say. And I think just leaning into that as an entrepreneur of like there actually isn’t a right way. You do get to decide, you get to pick, there’s no one watching you to say like, oh, you did that wrong, or you did that right.

And there might be opinions all over the place. But at the end of the day, I really think that it is important for every coach to know, you get to pick. There’s no perfect way to do really any of it.

Chelsea: Yeah. And you gave me a lot of permission really, because it was like I was asking for permission to do it the way I wanted to do it. And it was like, oh, there is no right or wrong way to do this. What do you want to do? Okay, how do you want to do it? And that’s how I was so simple, like, okay, what do you want to do? How do you want to do it? And in my mind, it was like, oh no, I can’t deal with that, that’s the wrong way. Like who told you that was the wrong way? And fire them from your brain.

Lindsay: Yeah, and I think one of the things that I love to do is just give people permission to like, okay, try it, right? Go try that. Try it with your clients, see how it works and then evaluate and go from there. Not just make up whatever and then who cares if the clients get results or not. But do what you want, pick the things you want to pick, set things up the way you want to set them up, like break the rules if you want to, whatever. By rules I mean whatever is in your mind, right?

And then try it and see because if it feels great to you, chances are your clients are probably going to love it a lot more than they would if you’re fighting with yourself the whole time. Like, I don’t want to be doing this. This is not my way. So I appreciate you saying that. Jolene, what about you?

Jolene: For me, there’s been a few big takeaways. But if I had to pick the biggest one, I think it would be like if you’re nervous about something or have this sort of hidden kind of fear around something with your coaching or the way that your clients are showing up or not showing up, to lean into it rather than trying to avoid it.

And I think that that was happening to me a lot prior to the Coach Lab, where I was avoiding certain conversations, or if the client kept showing up late, not really wanting to address it. Or if they were lacking in motivation, sort of just like trying to pull them, like pull them towards getting more motivation. And I was frustrated by it, rather than being curious about it and like having that be the topic of our coaching.

And I think by practicing that, I’ve noticed it in other areas of my life too where if I’m feeling resentful, or something’s at nagging me or I’m nervous of something, stopping and noticing that and then questioning it, and either solving for it or working on my mindset around it if it wasn’t solvable. And yeah, it’s just been so helpful for me in so many different areas, coaching for sure, but I think even just in my personal life as well.

Lindsay: Yeah, I think it’s so easy, right, to just like, “Oh, this feels really uncomfortable, I’m just going to ignore it as long as I can. We’ll try to solve it in other ways, right? By changing things or changing the structure of my coaching, or changing the way I, you know, deciding I don’t care if my clients always show up late or whatever, right? Like just changing what you’re doing, instead of just like, oh, wait, this isn’t working. Why not? Let’s get really curious about it. So much.

So it makes your coaching so much more powerful. And it takes kind of the shame and all of that out of it for your client too, right, when you’re like, no, it’s okay, let’s just talk about it. Let’s figure out why it’s happening.

Jolene: And it’s interesting too, because a lot of the clients that I work with, a lot of them are sort of in that perfectionist type, I guess, like they work really, really, really hard so that they don’t get negative feedback because they’re really nervous of that negative feedback. Or they’re worried about those unspoken things, that they’re not good enough, or they don’t have the right skills. And if they do get criticism, they don’t quite know how to handle it. So they’re avoiding it.

And so what we work on is that exact thing. Like if somebody is going to give you either negative feedback or criticism, I think there’s a difference between the two. Like leaning into it and asking them for more information because what I noticed is a lot of times people aren’t trained in giving feedback so it comes across super awkward and not helpful.

But if you have enough space to go, okay, what do you mean by that? Like, how would it look different if I did it the right way, or I did it the way that would be better? Then you can actually get some really useful information and it separates your self-worth from the skill that you’re trying to improve. So it translated for me into helping them in their professional lives as well.

Lindsay: Yeah, I love that. And I think it creates the space then to actually solve the problem instead of, like either way it feels bad, right? It’s uncomfortable to maybe hear feedback, in this case of what you’re talking about, like it’s uncomfortable to hear the feedback. But it’s also uncomfortable to know that something’s not working and just sit with it and try to cover it up without solving the problem. But only one of them actually solves the thing.

Jolene: Totally. Yeah, and creates a better product in the end too. Lindsay: Yeah, definitely. Okay, so I think you had two things. What was the other thing that you were going to say?

Jolene: The other one was the simplicity. So one of the things I struggled with, even before I started coaching, so I was a professional geoscientist. I still am as like part of my other side of my work life. And always I’ve been the type of person that gets really detailed, like can kind of go into the weeds on things.

And I found that when I first started coaching I wanted to provide a lot of value. And in my mind value meant more, like more worksheets, more actions for them to do, having this big coaching platform where I could put all my clients in and then they could like constantly be reading and doing things. And I just overwhelmed them.

It just got really overwhelming and I couldn’t quite figure out how to solve for it. And so with the Coach Lab, seeing the simplicity of it and going, oh, this is actually more valuable because there’s less for me that I have to go and study. And there’s more time for me to actually apply it and practice it, which is really what I need. Oh, so I can actually do that with my clients. Like less really, actually is more.

And so it’s me doing that and practicing it. But I think also you setting that as an example, was really helpful to see that.

Lindsay: I love it. Scientists are my favorite who come into my coaching space because they have a mind that’s very like, more data, more data, more data. And I’m like, no, no, no, not more data. You don’t need more data, you have all of it that you need right now. Let’s apply it and then figure out how we’re going to go from there. And so it makes a lot of sense that you say that.

Chelsea, what do you – So inside the Coach Lab there are many opportunities to get coached or to consume or all the things, right? There’s the calls, there’s the community, there’s the vault. I’m curious if you have a favorite one of those things or if they’re equal, if there’s anything that stands out for you that you would want to say about that?

Chelsea: Do I have a favorite?

Lindsay: I’ll give you an example. So I interviewed – It’ll be coming out before this comes out, I did another interview with a couple clients from the coach lab. And some of them, like one of them that was on there I was like, oh, I don’t think I’ve ever coached you on a call, right? And she was like, oh, no, I mostly go through and watch the modules, like a bunch of them over and over. And for her that’s like one of her favorite things.

And then there were a couple of other people who come to every single weekly call. And they’re like, this is where I get so much of my coaching. I love it.

And you don’t have to have an answer. Maybe you’re just like, nope, it’s all great and I don’t really have a preference. And this can be for either of you as well. I’m just curious if there’s anything that comes up for you when I say that.

Chelsea: For me, I do enjoy them all. However, I really enjoy the calls because there’s usually something in there that I can take away, even if I’m not being coached. Or if I’m in there and like I’ll raise my hand to be coached, and so I’m waiting to be coached. And then all the people in front of me kind of like, there’s bits and pieces from everyone in front of me. And I’m like, well, what am I going to get coached on now? All of my questions have kind of been explored and answered.

And then I just think they’re all super useful. They’re all very useful depending on what you want or need at that moment, or what you want to explore at that time. And so if you want to go to a call and just sit on a call and just listen, there’s always gems there. If you want to go into the Facebook group, and what I do actually is I type in like keywords.

If I have a question or I’m thinking about something, there’s like keywords I’ll type in and I’ll just go in and read and take what I need and leave what I don’t want. And then, this is funny. And then now, the website with the modules, it’s like, hmm, what do I want to explore today? Or what do I want to look into or just be a part of today? And you could just go in there and take what you need and leave the rest.

And so I think I said the calls are my favorite, though. But all of it is so useful. It’s just there waiting for you and I like that because I like options. I have an ADHD brain and I like to dabble in things. Hello, dopamine. I like to dabble in things and I’m like, “Ooh, what’s over here? Ooh, let’s go over here.” And so having multiple ways to get into things that are also simple because, again, I have an ADHD brain that wants to be complex all the time. And it’s like, oh, okay, let’s see what we’re going to explore today.

So I really enjoyed all of them, but the calls are my favorite. If you want to get a whole bunch of information that’s simple and valuable in one sitting, I love the calls.

Lindsay: I love that. One thing you said that I really resonate with just as a, like from the client side is I love being in group coaching settings. I love one-on-one coaching too, of course, this isn’t like one’s better.

But one of my favorite things about being in a group setting is sometimes I’m listening to someone else get coached. And me thinking I didn’t even know I needed coaching on that, but I did.

And I just got it from listening to them ask this question or explore this thing. And that is, like I love that. And when I’m in groups as a client being, you know, just watching people get coached. Jolene, is there anything you want to add to that? Do you have an answer or a different answer?

Jolene: Yeah, I mean, I can relate to Chelsea. I feel like I love all of it. I do really love the workshops. So it’s like the calls that are on specific topics. And because often there will be things that I’m like, “Oh, is that a big enough topic to have a call about?” And then you’ll do the workshop and I’m like, “Oh, there was one on celebrations.” And I didn’t realize the nuances of that, and how important that was. And then that became my word for 2023 because it was cool.

Lindsay: I love that.

Jolene: Yeah, it was such a neat breakdown. And so, yeah, the workshops with a little bit of the teaching and then the coaching after it, I really enjoy.

Lindsay: Someone actually messaged me about that workshop and said, like they sent me an email and said, “When I saw that that was the topic for this month’s workshop I was like, that is the most ridiculous topic. And then I listened to the replay.”

And I think maybe she said I listened to it by accident, because I think the workshops are in the private podcast, right? So I think it just started playing. And she was like, “Oh my gosh, I can’t believe I wasn’t there. And I’ll never miss a workshop, even if I think the topic is stupid.” I was like, okay, that’s real honesty right there. Thank you. So yeah, I think that’s funny.

I love teaching the workshops because I think it’s one thing to show up and just get whatever coaching. But sometimes it’s like, okay, let’s just do a little bit of teaching, but then also coaching on a specific topic.

I think it can help bring things up, kind of like what we were saying a minute ago or like, oh, I didn’t even know I needed to learn this, or I wanted to learn this, or I needed coaching on this. And that’s kind of where that idea came from.

Jolene: Yeah, and I like how it becomes a little bit more applied in that way because when we watch the module, there might be questions that people have, and then you might answer it later down the road. But in the workshop, it’s like right after all these questions that I wouldn’t have even maybe thought about until I started trying to apply it in the real world. So it’s just that’s a really cool way to have that group kind of thought process going on.

Lindsay: Okay, I’m so curious, I’m going to switch gears just a little bit. I just want to know how you got into coaching. How long have you been a coach? What was the thing that kind of prompted you to like, I think I want to be a coach?

Chelsea: I love that question. My heart right now is like fluttering in a good way, not in a like a nervous system shut down way.

Lindsay: Good. That’s good. You didn’t look like you were shutting down, I would have changed the topic if you did.

Chelsea: For me, personally, this is really about alignment and purpose. I’ve always been that person that was always kind of listening to people and giving them really like permission to do what they want to do and being like a sounding board, if you will.

Lindsay: You mean just like people in your life, like friends?

Chelsea: Yes.

Lindsay: Okay.

Chelsea: Yeah, just like friends and family. So I was working as a mortgage loan processor and I was making such great money, but I was so unfulfilled and so burned out, and just wondering. I’m like, I have all these great gifts. I’m not using them in the capacity that I know I need to use them that I know would fulfill me.

And I remember texting a friend. And I’m like, what am I good at? What should I do? Lindsay: That’s so good. I love that you asked a friend.

Chelsea: I did because I often think friends can see you from a lens that you don’t see yourself. And the same way with coaching, someone else can hold that mirror for you because you don’t see yourself in that way or in that light. And she said, like she just texted back immediately, a life coach. And I was like, “A life coach? What?” And I was just like ew.

Lindsay: I love it.

Chelsea: I had this version of a life coach in my mind that was like the person that tells everyone what to do with their life. This is what you should do and like gives advice. And I’m like, no people should do what they want to do, it’s their journey, their life. Everyone’s good at something different. I’m like, no, I don’t want to do that. And then I explored it and I was like, hmm.

Lindsay: Wait a minute, maybe that’s actually what coaching is. It’s not telling people what they should do.

Chelsea: Right.

Lindsay: That’s so good.

Chelsea: The more I explored what it was, I felt literally, like there was like a ray of light that was just like beaming through me and I just felt so aligned, like this is it. Like when you have that rush it’s like, “This is it! Yes!” And so I said this is it.

And I started, I got certified through LCS in March of 2022. And then I just went into overdrive with all the things. And then I looked at my bookshelf. It was so funny, I looked on my bookshelf and I looked at the books that I had acquired over the years. And I’m like, duh, you’re supposed to be a life coach. What are you doing, ma’am?

So that’s how I got into life coaching. And it just all made so much sense. Like my whole life, it was like I saw a movie of my life and I’m like, girl, this, is it. This is it the whole time. What are you doing?

Lindsay: I love it so much. You’re like, wait, there’s not one book about mortgages or whatever you were doing.

Chelsea: No books about mortgages.

Lindsay: It turns out that was not my passion.

Chelsea: Clearly. Hello, self-development.

Lindsay: That’s amazing. I had a very similar experience, so I can relate so much to that. So when you say, like in your intro you said that you help your clients with embodiment. I’m curious, if you want to tell us what that means for you, because I know that that is a word that I hear sometimes in the industry.

And I just think it’s interesting to explore those things because I think most people know what mindset is and what just a basic, like mindset coaching, a lot of people are familiar with that. When you say, embodiment, what does that mean for you and what does that look like in your coaching?

Chelsea: For me, embodiment means feeling the feeling of whatever it is, whatever state that you’re wanting to enter into. So it’s easy to think, “I am confident.” I am confident.” Okay, but our body and our mind and our brain doesn’t understand words, it understands behavior. So what does that feel like? How do you know that you’re feeling confident?

So it’s an inner-standing. So an example like, okay, if I’m feeling confident, well my chest is out and I feel warm or I feel light. What does it feel like in your body to feel confident? And just acknowledging that feeling versus staying in your head the entire time because a lot of times our body knows before our mind knows, and I believe it’s kind of like a loop.

So when you’re entering embodiment it’s like I’m putting it on. Let’s put it on, let’s try it on. What is it feeling like? It’s like, oh, okay, how do you walk when you’re feeling confident? And how do you move and you’re feeling competent. Because most of the time, when you’re feeling confident, you are not walking with your shoulders down and you’re slumping and moving like a slob. No ma’am.

If you do move like that and you’re confident, then go. That’s for you. But in my experience, when you’re confident, your shoulders are back, your chest is up and you just move differently. So embodiment is just entering into the state with your body and just putting it on and wearing it.

Lindsay: And you know what it feels like because you have felt that before, even if you don’t feel it in this moment around whatever it is that you’re thinking about, or wanting to do, or whatever the actions are that you’re wanting to take, right? Is that what you’re saying?

Chelsea: Yes. Yes, that is so true. And a lot of times our subconscious mind knows, most of the time it already knows. So in my practice we work a lot with the subconscious and your conscious mind. So when you enter into your subconscious, it kind of takes over and it accumulates all this information. So it’s like even if I don’t consciously know, like I don’t know what I’m feeling. Some people just, you don’t remember, like I don’t know.

But if you’re able to a lot of times we’ll enter like a trance and you allow your subconsciousness to kind of take over and it leads. And it’s like, oh, I do know. I really do know. And so that’s always so beautiful. So like exploring to see people reach inside to grab that inner knowing.

Lindsay: My husband who is not a coach, obviously, I’ve talked about him on the podcast before. He’s not a coach, but he is so good at noticing, like one thing he’ll say to me is like, hey, are you feeling a little anxious? And like, nope. First of all, that tone, he probably is like, oh, okay. But he’s like, let me just give you a hug. And I’ll just feel my entire body, like my shoulders just relaxing and my body like entering a different state.

And he can just see it. He sees it immediately. And he’s like, if I give her a hug, I bet she’s going to relax and she’s going to notice how tense she was. And that’s what I, when people talk about embodiment, I’m like my husband is so good, just with me I’m sure. He’s not out in the world hugging other people. That’d be weird. But with me, he’s just so good at noticing like, oh, she’s in this state that she’s not even aware of. Let me help her get into her body and see that she doesn’t need to be walking around with her shoulders by her ears.

Chelsea: Right, we don’t realize it sometimes. It’s just like we’re just going throughout the day.

Lindsay: Yeah, the body just takes over.

Chelsea: It does.

Lindsay: I love it. All right, Jolene, how about you? How did you get into coaching? And your niche is so specific, and I love it, so I’m curious about that, too. Like how you got into coaching and why that path specifically?

Jolene: Yeah, my initial introduction to coaching was probably when I first heard about it through The Life Coach School Podcast. And I was like, what is this coaching? Like, what does she mean when she says she coaches people? I had no idea.

And I got really into that podcast and I joined her program. And then that’s when I was introduced to it. And I was like, wow, this is so powerful. It had such an effect on me personally in my personal life, that I was like, Oh, this is like a real thing. This isn’t fluff. This isn’t just like a woo-woo, you know, whatever I had initially thought, even though I didn’t even know what it was.

I was like, this is powerful and it helps me in a way that nothing else ever has. I had done therapy when I was younger and I had done a few other things. And not that there’s anything wrong with it, just for me it wasn’t what I needed. And coaching, it just helped me in a very challenging time in my life.

And so then my friend introduced me to the nutrition coaching program that I got into, which was very like more holistic, it wasn’t just about nutrition. And they totally sold me on the health coaching, on the coaching side of it. And so I saw a pathway that I could learn how to be a coach. And I went with it, even though it was more specific to health coaching.

And then when I started doing that, I coached just generally everybody. I didn’t have a niche at that time. And I started to notice that often people would bring me, like even though we were coaching on nutrition, they would bring me other things. And I was like, okay, can I coach on this? Am I allowed to coach on this? And so then that’s when I started exploring other tools and other ways I started to have interest in other than just nutrition.

And then at some point, I wanted to get back into working in my profession as a professional geoscientist. And I started to go, wait a minute, there’s all these issues that I had as a young woman in this sort of male dominated profession. And there’s not a lot of people working with women in this industry. There’s a lot of like mentorships and sort of groups that are trying to raise equality, but there’s nobody that’s working specifically on issues that a lot of us might be dealing with, like confidence.

Lindsay: More personal.

Jolene: More personal.

Lindsay: On the personal side versus like career development or feeling good in the office or something like that.

Jolene: Totally, yes. Or even like negotiation skills and things. So I was like jeez, this seems like there should be. Why couldn’t I be that person? And so that’s when I just decided that I wanted to get into doing that. It felt more aligned for me to work sort of with that group of people specifically, because I had been one, I knew firsthand how hard it had been for me, and still was as a mom in more of a male dominated profession. And just sort of filling a gap that I saw was there.

But I think, for me, coaching, and I’ve gone over this a lot with my own coach that I met through the Coach Lab. And what I’ve kind of had to sort of coach myself on was, I guess, the power of coaching, even though it is separate from the technical side. And what I found is a lot of times, people that I work with feel like the technical side has all the value. That’s sort of like bread and butter.

But I think we forget that the people doing the technical side are humans, human brains and human emotions. And the quality of that technical work has to come from people who have the thoughts and feelings and actions that are aligned with that. And so if they’re struggling in those areas, that’s going to affect the technical side.

So, to me, the coaching is just as valuable, if not more valuable than the result, which is the technical work.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm, I love that. When you say geoscientist, geo is like geology, right?

Jolene: Yeah, earth science.

Lindsay: I was a geology major. It was my first major, I had several of them. And it was my first major and I was often the only girl, I guess I would call myself at that time. I was what, 18, 19? The only one in all of my classes, like just all males and me, which I didn’t mind. I always had a little bit of a rebel like watch me, like that kind of thing. Just like, oh, I’m going to make a splash kind of.

But there were times that it felt awkward even in that environment. And I can’t imagine what it’s like that being your life, going out into the world and just being in an environment where I feel like in the coach world we almost have the opposite, where it’s, at least in our space, it’s mostly women. And I just love that so much.

Jolene: For me, I had about, I don’t know, 50/50 in university, there were a lot of women. But as you progress, I think there’s research on it around your mid 30s there’s this huge drop off. And my role isn’t to try to convince people to stay in a job that doesn’t suit them, but I think it’s just knowing your reasons for staying or not staying and liking them, which is what you talk about.

And I think, so for me, it’s not about trying to keep things equal or 50/50 all the way through, but it’s just more supporting women through that decision making process, or even just figuring out ways that they can have more control over their situation so that they’re not feeling like they’re at the mercy of the culture of everything else going on.

And I even see it in leadership and the way we are taught to lead. It’s in a very male dominated mindset of like, don’t let them see you flinch. Don’t let them think that you don’t have all the answers. And it just, it’s just not super aligned, I think, with a lot of the females that I work with. And so it’s also about, I think, finding different ways, different possibilities, different perspectives. And so, to me, the coaching, it’s so powerful in that context and I want to see it grow there.

Lindsay: I am just so grateful for both of you. I’m so happy to have had you here. And I want to check in, is there anything else that you want to add that we haven’t talked about? I know, Jolene, there was something you were wanting to share that we haven’t touched on yet. So you could definitely share that. But I just want to leave it open for you, like if there’s anything else that you just would love to say.

Jolene: Was it related to coaching, like finding coaches?

Lindsay: Yeah, one of the things that you said you love about the Coach Lab, which before you say it, I will say this isn’t something that I advertise about the Coach Lab, right? It’s not like a reason that I’m like, come in here so you can hire a coach. But I do find it to be a lovely perk of just like, here’s this big space full of lots of coaches, pretty much any kind of coach you could want. There’s one here for you. And so you shared something about that. So go for it.

Jolene: Yeah, exactly. I didn’t join the Coach Lab for this reason, either. But when you were just starting to do the calls, one of your guest coaches was Kimberly Mathis and I just really liked her and I was looking for a coach at the time. And so now she’s been my coach now for, I think, eight or nine months, and really helped me through my whole transition to change niches and to go back to my company.

And so I don’t know, for me, it was just like, wow, there’s this whole pool of coaches. So if you’re also looking for coaching, it’s a really great place to be and to meet all these other coaches. But even I was thinking, too, about like if I end up doing a group program and I’m looking for coaches to help me fill some dates that I can’t coach on, it’s just a great networking community.

Lindsay: Yes, I’ve actually started to – I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I’ve had colleagues start to reach out to me to say like, I’m doing this thing, can you help me fill coaching positions? I’m like, absolutely. I have a huge room full of people who would probably love to do that. So yeah, and I think that that is so fun because not everyone wants to grow a huge business of their own, right? Some people love to coach and they’re like I’ll love to coach in all these other spaces.

So I think that’s really fun. But thank you for sharing that. I also love Kimberly. And that’s so perfect because she’s so good at making decisions, making changes, all of those things which it sounds like what you were working on.

Jolene: Yeah, totally.

Lindsay: Chelsea, is there anything you would love to add, anything we didn’t touch on, didn’t address that you want to say?

Chelsea: Yes. So I want to add one of the things that I do intentionally when coming into the Coach Lab for the weekly calls, is to come in messy.

Lindsay: That’s my favorite.

Chelsea: As a Black woman I have been conditioned to be the best in the room, to be the smartest, and to be on point, to never let them see you sweat, carry yourself this way, all the things. And I gave myself permission to come in messy because that is when you get the most value and you have the biggest awareness and breakthroughs.

And as a Black woman, to feel safe is a big thing. Safety is huge. And Lindsay has cultivated an atmosphere and has, with the coaches that I have been coached by in her coaching calls, I felt safe and I created safety within me to be able to show up messy and talk about the things that some people would never bring up. Like, let’s be real.

And so I come in there and be messy. It’s kind of like when I have so many friends that they’ll clean their house before the housekeeper comes.

Lindsay: Why are you calling me out like that? What’s happening? Okay, I just pick up. I don’t clean, I’ve gotten over that, but I used to. I got coaching on that.

Chelsea: And it’s a thing, it’s such a thing. It’s like, let’s just tidy up it so it’s not as bad. And it’s like, what did I hire this person for? I’m going to come as I am because I’m not going to make it mean less of me. Just come as you are and allow yourself to be in that state that you’re in. Because if you come in trying to hold back some parts, how beneficial is the coaching, really?

And so come in messy and just let yourself be messy. And if people have opinions about it, that’s their business, not yours. Your opinions about me have nothing to do with me. I know who I am. Stand firm in who you are, be grounded in who you are, and be a human.

Lindsay: So good.

Chelsea: And that’s where you get the most.

Lindsay: Yeah, I’m so grateful that you shared that. And I think that it is something that I have intentionally spent time thinking about, right? Like how do I create a space where anyone can come in and get coached in a way that they can show up messy, and while also knowing it can be really uncomfortable to do that with a screen full of people also there, right?

And so I can appreciate if people can’t do that, but I just have such a heart for all of my clients who show up and get coached on something that I know like, that took a lot of courage. That was like, I’m just going to put all of this aside and I’m just going to show up as me and get the coaching that I need. And it’s really powerful when you all do that, because then everyone else, like I think it just chips away at all the things in the room for everyone, right?

Like if you can do that, then maybe someone else can do that. And maybe this other person could show up and get this scary coaching. And I’m just really grateful that you shared that, so thank you.

Okay, you all are amazing. Thank you so much for doing this. I would love for you to share with them – So obviously everyone’s going to want to come find you, both of you. I would love you to share, Chelsea, you can go first, just where people can find you, where they can interact with you if they want to see what you’re up to.

Chelsea: You can find me on Instagram. And it’s two underscores then Chelsea Simone, C-H-E-L-S-E-A-S-I-M-O-N-E, Chelsea Simone.

Lindsay: Perfect and we will link that, for sure, in the show notes. So if anyone’s driving or showering, they don’t have to stop what they’re doing and write it down, it will be in the show notes. You can go find her. So fun. Jolene, go for it.

Jolene: I’m on Instagram as well, the coach for women in STEM, and I’m also on LinkedIn. Actually, that’s mostly where I am now. I’m really enjoying being on LinkedIn actually over Instagram. So that’s just Jolene Hermanson and I have my website as well, jolenehermanson.com.

Lindsay: Thank you. We will link all of that in the show notes as well. Thank you, both of you, so much. I very much appreciate it. I loved this conversation and I can’t wait to see you in the lab.

Jolene: Thank you so much, Lindsay. This was great.

Chelsea: Thank you Lindsay.

Lindsay: Bye.

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