Ep #180: A Genius Solution for a Lack of Motivation with Jennifer Dent Brown

Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills episode 180.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey coach, I am so happy you’re here today, as usual. Today I have such a fun interview for you. I am interviewing, actually I’m having her back on the podcast, a past client who is now a contract coach who sometimes coaches as a guest coach in The Coach Lab, while of course running her own super successful business.

Her name is Jennifer Dent Brown and we are going to talk about something that is going to be really useful for you no matter who you are, no matter what you coach, no matter where you are in your coaching journey. She’s going to teach you something that is so fun. So, without further ado, here we go.

Lindsay: Hello, I am so happy to have you back. So fun. Please introduce yourself, tell everyone who you are and a little bit about what you do.

Jennifer: I feel special, this is my second time on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Hello everyone, I am Jennifer Dent Brown, I am a health, life, and weight loss coach. I’ve been coaching full time since 2020. And I became a coach in 2014, so I’ve been in this game for quite a bit.

Lindsay: I love it. That’s the year, actually I think I started my business in 2015, so we’re close. 2014 is when I hired a life coach just to help me get my act together.

Jennifer. Coaching has changed my life.

Lindsay: Me too. Okay, so first just a little set up on why you’re here, how this happened. I was scrolling, I think, I’m pretty sure, I don’t know if it was on Instagram or Facebook, where I saw it, but I came across a post of yours that I thought was super interesting. And just for context, so everybody knows, you are a contract coach inside The Coach Lab. So you coach every once in a while in there when we need a guest coach.

And so I immediately messaged you and I was like, hey, this feels like – You were talking about it in terms of wellness, weight loss, whatever your, like the frame of your business. And I said, this is such a good topic for anyone, like for coaches, for whatever.

So I asked you to come teach it, which you’re doing this month in The Coach Lab, which I’m super excited about. And then I said, actually, we should record a podcast about it too. So we’ll just start there, if that works for you.

Jennifer: Let’s do all the things. Yes, let’s start there. Start with the reel that started it all.

Lindsay: The reel that started at all, yeah. And it’s funny because I remember the concept and I remember seeing it and just loving it. And it’s funny, it must have been maybe like something I needed to hear that day or something because it just really hit me. It was so good.

And I don’t even remember what you said. I just remember you talking about something that you teach your clients called the F-It strategy. Would you love to, first, just explain what that is?

Jennifer: Yeah. So the F-It strategy is we all have those moments. When we have a goal and we’re super focused on the goal, but then we have those days or those weeks we’re just like F-It, I don’t want to do anything that is aligned with my goal. I don’t want to do anything that I know I’m supposed to do.

And I think I was talking about it in the reel, from my example of I think I was working out. I’m a very inconsistent worker outer. Like I enjoy working out, but I get tired of my workouts. I get bored really easily, so I need a lot of change. And so I was having my own F-It moment, right?

I’d already decided we were getting ready for a girl’s trip. Me and a bunch of my girlfriends are doing a 50s girls trip because we’re all turning 50. And 90 days out I was like, all right, got the 90 day workout plan. This is what we’re doing. And the moment came, like the first week all good. In it, I got my little tracker. We’re messaging on WhatsApp, like got your workout in? Got your workout in? Are you doing this? So we’re all motivated and hyped.

And I don’t even remember what the exact circumstance was when I was like, I feel like doing it.

Lindsay: I don’t feel like it.

Jennifer: I don’t feel like it. And so those moments, we call F-It moments, E-F-F to be specific. And so I teach my clients the way that you get over an F-It moment is to have an anchor thought. So we all know that these moments are going to come, like it’s inevitable. I don’t care if you’re super motivated or you had the best intentions and you think your plan is rock solid, you’re going to have an F-It moment.

So instead of waiting until you have an F-It moment and then you don’t do the thing and then you feel badly and you go through that whole cycle and you’re like, all right, I got to start all over again. We’re just going to avoid all that. We’re planning ahead of time for the F-It moment. We’re creating what I call anchor thoughts or an anchor strategy.

So when you have that moment, it’s like, okay, what’s my anchor thought? That’s all you have to remember. Like here we are, we’re in an F-It moment, what’s my anchor thought? And that is the thought that you’re going to use to link you to the place where you achieve the goal, right?

You’ve gotten beyond the F-It moment, the place where you were like, I’ve reached my goal, everything’s amazing. It’s that place. I mean, I really think it’s important to create that anchor thought in the beginning where you first start working towards a goal. And then you have that.

I was using this example, the other day we were talking about this. I was coaching a client in my group and I was using the example of like, your anchor thought is like a life jacket.

Lindsay: That’s good, yeah.

Jennifer: So when you’re working on something, you’re having an F-It moment, you’re like in a storm, right? So you’re tossing and turning. It’s very uncomfortable. The wind is whipping you around. The waves are making you nauseous and you want to quit. You’re like, I just need to get out of here.

Your anchor thought is like a life raft or a life preserver that you can just hold onto so you can keep your head above water so you can keep swimming towards what I call the land of possibility.

Yeah, and so that’s all it is. That’s all it is. In that reel I was just explaining I had achieved my goal. I overcame my F-It moment with my anchor thought. And I was like, you know, I think I want to just create a real quick reel with this. And you know it was on the spot because my hair was not done, I remember putting a hat on. I’m like, I’m just going to record this real quick, teach about the F-It strategy, how useful it is. And then here we are. You saw it.

Lindsay: And then I was like, this is genius. I think what struck me about it is I’ve heard different variations of similar things to this, but this is the first thing that I heard, I’m sure there are other things out there, but it’s the first time that I’ve heard about it where it’s like, we’re just going to plan ahead to normalize that moment.

And that’s a lot of the work we do in The Coach Lab, just like normalizing things that come up in coaching sessions and all of that. And so when I heard that, it was like, oh, this is – Because it’s not just the moment that takes us out, right? It’s not just the moment of like, I just really don’t feel like showing up this week, which happens to all of us for all different reasons.

That happens and then there’s the moment where you then possibly shame yourself or beat yourself up for not doing the things and not following the eating plan and not whatever your examples would be, or in a coaching practice, like having some bad sessions and then just sitting in the blah of it all. Or having a bad week in your business or not creating the content that you said you were going to do or not filming the reels that you had planned to film. And then making that all so much more of a problem than it needs to be.

Jennifer: It’s a spiral.

Lindsay: Yeah, versus like this happens to all of us. Now I just need to re-anchor to – But it’s very hard in my experience to re-anchor when you’re in the storm.

Jennifer: When you’re in it, right. So this is why you prepare ahead of time. And what you just explained is like, you have that F-It moment and then you don’t do the thing and then you don’t do the thing and you spiral, I call that problem-ville.

Lindsay: You have so many great names. I’m so bad at naming things and you just have a name for everything. It’s so good.

Jennifer: We end up in problem-ville. And so problem-ville is like when one thing is a problem and then all of a sudden everything’s a problem. So it’s like, okay, I didn’t do my content today. But then it’s like, oh my God, then I probably need to take down the content I did last week because it’s not good enough. And then you’re like, oh my goodness, well, the fact that the dog is barking and I haven’t fed the dog, that’s a problem.

It’s just your brain spirals out of control and you descend down into the land of problem-ville. And I say the way that successful people, in my case with my clients who are wanting to lose weight, they move out of problem-ville, the quicker you can move out of problem-ville, the closer and the faster you will achieve your goal.

But the longer you sit in problem-ville, it’s harder to get out. And I think it’s very normal when you’re first understanding what problem-ville is and you’re understanding how you descend there. I totally remember when we first started coaching, Lindsay was my very first one-on-one coach, I lived in problem-ville. I was like, everything is a problem. And you were like, but no, nothing has gone wrong. And I’m like, yeah, no, everything is a problem. Everything is a mess.

Lindsay: No, you don’t understand, there’s a storm happening around me.

Jennifer: There’s a terrible storm happening. And I don’t know, like it’s all happening to me, right? And so it used to take me weeks to get out of problem-ville. First of all, I didn’t even know I was in problem-ville. But then it would take me, I’m like, okay, we’re in problem-ville. And it felt so hard to get out until I got the tools and I was able to begin to start coaching myself to get out of problem-ville.

So one of the easiest things to do when you’re in problem-ville is to recognize, oh, this is where we are right now. It’s okay. Okay, we’re sitting in problem-ville. It’s a little uncomfortable right now. And then the next thing, all you need to do is just remember, and it’s not a problem that you’re in problem-ville. So let’s have some compassion, it happens to all of us. What’s my thought? What’s my thought? What’s my thought?

Lindsay: You probably even have friends there. I bet there are friends sitting there with you just in problem-ville.

Jennifer: Totally. Yes. So if you have friends, your buddies who are like, let’s just complain and whine and like, girl, that’s terrible. Like he did what? If you have those friends, don’t talk to them when you’re in problem-ville because they’re just going to keep you down.

But just know what your thought is. Keep it on your phone. Keep it in like a post-it note on your bathroom mirror. Just so you know, like, oh, right, I’ve got my life preserver. I can grab onto something and it can at least get me through the next hour. It can at least get me through the next two hours. I can at least use this to get through the end of the day and then we will reassess and keep going.

Lindsay: Yeah. So when you teach this, do you teach your clients or do you yourself, do you pick like one anchor thought or is it layered, like multiple thoughts or how do you think about it?

Jennifer: It depends on the person and I think it depends on the season. So I was just telling my clients this, like that thought that you gave me, “Nothing has gone wrong,” that served me for, I don’t know, like two years, three years. Nothing has gone wrong. I have given that to my clients. They’re like, “But nothing has gone wrong.” And I’m like, “Yes, that is true. Nothing has gone wrong.” And then I had, recently I had, I think the thought, I don’t even know if I shared it in the reel, what my anchor thought was, because I can’t even remember what it was now, but it doesn’t serve me anymore. So I have a new one I just came up with this weekend because I was in problem-ville and I have a new thought.

And it was just inspiring for me, I was reading an inspirational book. And I was like, oh, this speaks to my soul. And I just started repeating it to myself. And that became my anchor thought for the season. Now it may change later. I don’t know, but we’ll see.

Lindsay: When I think about the way you’re describing it, I feel like nothing has gone wrong is such a good thought to practice when you first realize, like, here I am, I’m in problem-ville. And to just, if you aren’t used to practicing that, that’s such a great first thought to have. Like nothing has gone wrong, I’m just here and I know a way out.

Jennifer: Yeah. And I’m not going to be here forever. I’m not going to be here forever. So you know this, my dad is a Baptist preacher. He’s retired now, but he always used to say life is you’re either getting ready to go into a storm, you’re either in a storm or you’re coming out of a storm. That’s just the ebb and flow of life. That’s just always where we are.

Lindsay: I love that. I can see that.

Jennifer: Yeah. You’re like, oh, this is the stormy part, okay. This is problem-ville, it’s okay. There is a light at the end of the tunnel eventually, I just need to use my anchor thought, use my life preserver, keep treading water until I can get myself back over to the land of possibility.

Lindsay: And I do think it’s human nature when we get out of it to think like, oh, thank goodness I’m out, that’s not going to happen again or whatever. I learned the lesson, now I’ll never be back there. And I just think that’s always trouble.

Jennifer: It’s setting you up for failure. Yeah, totally. You just have to expect like, yep, it’ll come back around again and it’s okay.

Lindsay: I have tried, recently I’ve been being very open with just things that I have been going through in my coaching business and in my coaching and just all of that, just very like an open book. Which I always have been, I’m just doing it a little more purposeful now. And I just find it really interesting some of the feedback I get that’s like, I can’t believe that you go through that. I’m like, that’s so interesting. We all do. Like the thought that I’m going to like somehow get through this thing and never be back here again –

Jennifer: It just comes at a different level, right? So your F-It moments happen, but you probably move through them quicker because you have the tools. You recognize where you are, you have the tools and you know how to give yourself lots of compassion like, this is just where I am right now. And I’m just going to ask myself what I need in this moment and go give it to myself. And then you’re like, the next day you wake up and you’re like, all right, back in the game.

Lindsay: Yeah. And I feel like that process used to last, I mean, it could have lasted, I don’t know, a week or more maybe. And now it can pass in almost an instant where it’s just like, I recognize it. Not always, right? But depending on what the topic is, where I just recognize it and then I’m like, oh, okay, this isn’t a problem. Turns out I’m ready to just get out of it now and that’s available.

Jennifer: And when you do and you make that decision of like, I’m ready to get out of it now, I don’t know about you, but I feel so inspired, like so empowered. Like, okay, girl. All right, we’re good. We can keep going.

Like, literally, I think it was this week, it’s been a long week. I was crying about something and I was like, all right, I’m just going to let myself cry. Like sobbing, boo-hooing. And then I had my anchor thought, I had my music, so I had this like double duty, I have a playlist.

So I had to play the playlist, I had to do some dancing and I had to acknowledge where I was. And then in like 20 minutes, I was good to go. I was like, all right, I’m good. Like, I’m good for now. And tomorrow, I might be coming back.

Lindsay: We might be back, we never know.

Jennifer: It’s okay.

Lindsay: One thing that I’m just hearing you say is that it really just kind of puts you kind of back in control. Even if you don’t have control over every single piece of the equation, which is pretty common, right? There are some pieces that might be out of your control. But just thinking about like, what do I have control over? How do I want to get out of this? How do I move forward? It’s very different than like, I’m just here and there’s nothing I can do about it.

Jennifer: Totally.

Lindsay: Okay. One thing that’s coming up for me, and we’re going to move on to a couple other things, but if there’s anything else you want to share about this, let’s do it. But one thing that also is coming up for me is one of the most common questions I get from podcast listeners, from people inside The Coach Lab, from just like all around is what do I do in a coaching session when everything is going great, or when a client has nothing to coach on?

And this feels like something that you could talk about in those moments because, to me, and totally correct me if I’m wrong, but to me, it feels like you’re going to create the most powerful F-It plan or anchor thought and all of that when you aren’t at all in the storm.

Jennifer: Exactly. Exactly. And you can prepare in a much stronger way when your emotions aren’t all wrapped up and you’re not feeling all the things. You can just be like, okay, all right. You can think very clearly, very logically.

Lindsay: Yeah. Well, I’m very excited for the clients inside The Coach Lab because your workshop, I already know, is going to be amazing. And I might even have to watch the replay. Learn it myself.

Jennifer: I think you should.

Lindsay: It’s going to be so good. Okay. Is there anything else that you want to share? Like did we cover the basics of that?

Jennifer: I think we covered the F-It strategy, yeah.

Lindsay: Okay. It’s so simple and so powerful. Those are my favorite strategies, my favorite anything. Like simple and powerful, that’s probably one of the things that I recognized right away when I saw you talking about it. Like, oh yeah, I need to write this on the list.

Jennifer: Good. I love it. Keep it simple. Keep it simple. That’s one thing I have learned from coaching, a lot of people are used to being very process oriented and like, okay, you got to do this first, you got to do this first, you got to do this first, you got to do this first. And then it’s like, okay, when someone’s having, like they’re really struggling, they’re not going to be like, let me pull out my checklist.

Lindsay: No, they don’t give a shit about your process.

Jennifer: They don’t want to write anything down. I give my clients a beautiful planner. I was like, they don’t want to write shit down. Like none of that. Like what’s the easiest thing that they can do in that moment? It works for me and it works for them.

Lindsay: I love it. This comes up a lot in the advanced certification room because one of the things that I kind of promise is that you’re going to leave with your coaching process. But what we always learn, what they always learn along the way is that –

Now, some of them are creating, maybe if they’re creating something that’s like The Coach Lab or a program where they’re working with many clients at once versus more like one-on-one coaching, they might be creating a process, like a very specific longer process. But even then most of the stuff that comes up is like, yeah, that’s the process, but all the coaching is like when the process isn’t working.

Jennifer: Doesn’t work.

Lindsay: Pretty much, yep.

Jennifer: Been there.

Lindsay: Yeah. Oh, we all have, right? Like that’s just, it would be so easy if coaching could just always be a five-step check it off.

Jennifer: Five-step process. 20 minutes, done.

Lindsay: Yep, it’d be so much easier.

Okay, so that was one of the main things I wanted to talk about but then you and I, before we started recording, talked about a couple of other things that have just been kind of coming up for you recently in your business and in your, whatever. All the people that are listening are coaches, so I was like, what would be interesting for them to hear about from you?

And one of the things we thought about is, this was really just me being curious about this, about kind of like the evolution, like one thing I have noticed in the space, and you kind of agreed that you see it too, is the evolution in the, I’m going to say in quotes, like “weight loss coaching” space. And what you have seen, you know, just like the shift in what people are looking for, what they’re hiring for, just anything around that that has come up for you lately.

Jennifer: Yeah. It’s kind of crazy right now with the onset of the weight loss drugs and Oprah coming out and talking about, yes, all the things. So, I mean, I struggled with that for a while and I was like – I had been watching the trend of weight loss drugs. I knew that Weight Watchers the company had purchased a pharmaceutical distribution company, so they were going to start offering the drugs.

Lindsay: I did not know that.

Jennifer: Mm-hmm. And so I was like, okay, how is this going to impact my business? I could have been like, oh my God, I’m going to lose my clients to a weight loss drug, especially since all the celebrities are doing it and if you turn on the news, it’s like the big topic.

I just read some data, like the weight loss drug industry is going to be a $1 trillion industry.

Lindsay: What?

Jennifer: Isn’t that crazy?

Lindsay: That is crazy.

Jennifer: So I have lots of thoughts about that, but one of the reasons why it’s a $1 trillion industry is because somebody, and I haven’t figured out exactly who, they had to decide that obesity was a disease. Drug makers can’t make any money off of a drug if something is not labeled as a disease.

Lindsay: Interesting.

Jennifer: Right. Exactly.

Lindsay: I didn’t know we were getting into this. This feels juicy.

Jennifer: Me neither. But this is what, you know, this is some of the things I’ve been thinking about.

Lindsay: I’ll pause you for one second, I think it’s so important that we just do have this conversation and that people hear you kind of even in the moment working through it because there are so many wellness coaches, right? Wellness, health, weight loss, like coaches in that corner of the industry.

And I hear it every once in a while in The Coach Lab where they’ve come for coaching on this about like, I kind of don’t know what to do. And especially newer coaches who are like, I got into this and now all of this is happening.

Jennifer: Yeah, so this is what I want to say about that. Yes, there’s the industry trends and then there’s like your trend. And you’ve got to decide, just like I had to decide. I was like, okay, how am I going to approach my business? How is my business going to fit into the industry or whatever I think might be a problem?

And I remember when I first started talking about weight loss drugs and my coach, you know my coach, she was like, is that a thing? People are taking weight loss drugs? And I was like, oh yes. I was like, I looked at the weight loss drugs. I was like, what is this? But I just decided, okay, people who are taking weight loss drugs are going to lose weight in a very specific way. They’re still not learning what I’m offering, which is the emotional piece of how to actually change their relationship with food.

What they’re doing is just a diet, right? It’s like, oh, they’re just cutting their appetite, in a very physiological way cutting their appetite and eating less so they lose weight.

I actually had one of my old private clients reach out to me. She’d lost 80 pounds, she’s on a weight loss drug. She lost 80 pounds, they want to wean her off or lower her dosage. She’s terrified because she has not yet figured out her emotional eating fully. So I was like, come back to coaching. I was like, let’s work through it.

And I was like, oh, this is how I’m going to partner with the people who are on – This is how I’m going to show up as a thought leader, as an industry leader inside of this, like, oh my God, the weight loss drugs are all over the place. And for me, that also is just me going with the flow, but also knowing that I want to veer a little bit closer to wellness and longevity because I’m 50 now, Lindsay.

Lindsay: What?

Jennifer: I’m 50.

Lindsay: I don’t believe you.

Jennifer: So I am, you know, the size six jeans, that was the vanity number back in the day when I wanted to lose a lot of weight, like that was the goal. Now it’s like, no, I want to have muscle mass. I want to have strong bones. I want to have healthy cells. And so that’s how I’m ebbing and flowing in this world that we’re in right now with weight loss.

Lindsay: Well, and for anyone listening, whether it’s weight loss or not, I think this comes up with so many different coaches and so many different kinds of pockets of the industry. And one example that I thought of before we started recording is business coaching, I think there’s so many trends that happen there.

And one thing that I say to all of my clients is the strategy isn’t really, I mean, although it’s great to have a strategy and it’s great to have your process and all of that, but really it’s not the most powerful piece of the coaching.

And whether someone is taking weight loss drugs, or I’m not normally paying that much attention to that industry, but I’m sure there are other examples that we could think of that have happened in the past that we could go back and say like, well, there’s this trend and this trend. One is like the keto diet or this diet or this diet, where so many weight loss coaches would then come to me and say like, well, my client lost so much weight doing this thing. And now that diet is like making them sick or it’s not great for them or it’s whatever and like, how do they transition?

So the point of this is, for anyone listening, I just think it’s so important to remember that the coaching is the most valuable piece. Like if it can be Googled, it’s not the most important piece of what you do, even if it’s part of what you do. Amazing, yes, definitely do it. And just always remember that coaching is the most important piece.

Jennifer: Same thing with if you think about business coaching strategies, right? It’s like, oh, funnels, evergreen funnels, like that’s the thing. I’m going to set up all these evergreen funnels. And I mean, I don’t know what the industry says now, but I’m sure that hit a peak and now it’s not a popular thing anymore.

Lindsay: Oh, totally. Yeah, it changes all the time, especially with algorithms and just things that you can’t control. I think AI is probably a really good example too for coaches that are like copyright coaches or even copywriters or coaches that do anything in that realm. I have seen some of them make genius pivots where they’re still totally embracing their genius and embracing the AI, right? Like embracing here’s how we work with it instead of just like, I just wish it would go away so that I could just do what I normally do.

Jennifer: Or feeling badly and having an F-It moment. Like, oh God, now I have to change my niche because I’m not going to be able to find any clients because of AI.

Lindsay: Yeah. Which is interesting, I mean, I’ll share that I’ve hired copywriters in the past and now just recently I hired someone, I paid for just like a program that was using AI for copywriting. And it’s like taught by a copywriter and she’s a genius at it. And it’s like there’s just a shift. It’s just such a subtle thing that she’s like, well, here’s how to work with it and here’s what you still need to know about your copy.

Jennifer: Yeah. I think using the F-It strategy, going back to that, and when you’re feeling like I’m doing the wrong thing or like what I’m doing isn’t working anymore, it’s okay. Like, it’s not a problem. I think that’s actually the fun part of entrepreneurship. I mean, some people may be like, oh God, it’s awful.

Lindsay: No, that’s what I was getting ready to say. I think it’s one of my favorite things about being an entrepreneur. Because it happens to me too, I can’t think of a specific example right this second, but where things kind of shift and I’m like, oh man, that makes my job harder. I just remind myself, like, no, the thought leadership, the creative part of what we do is actually why I am kind of here doing this thing. I just got lazy for a second, that’s all.

Jennifer: I mean, that’s how I came up with the F-It strategy, like problem-ville, land of possibility, the F-It strategy. Because if I had stayed back in 2021 where I’m like, okay, this is a five-step process, people wouldn’t be doing it. It wouldn’t be as effective as what I’m teaching now. And I think that’s the beauty and the fun of entrepreneurship. Just embrace this opportunity for growth and change because your clients get to benefit from it at the end of the day.

Lindsay: Yeah. I recently had a, I was just talking to a coach and she said, well, I was going back through this ads course I bought like five years ago or something. And I was like, oh, I mean, you can if you want, but that kind of feels like a waste of time. I think that in some spaces, it’s like things change so quickly, like take whatever the goodness is from it. I’m sure there’s still nuggets of genius in it, but just know that that space is just so different now, paid ads and all of that. So, so good.

Okay, so I hadn’t even considered the drug part. What I was thinking when I brought this up was just kind of the, you might disagree with this, but there’s I notice maybe a shift towards like wellness and nutrition, health, like all of that versus just weight loss, right? Just like the straight, I just want to lose weight.

Jennifer: Yeah, so I actually love it.

Lindsay: I think it’s perfect for your messaging.

Jennifer: It is. I’m certified as a health coach, so that’s what I learned. Like when I learned about holistic health, integrative nutrition, like food is medicine, like healing your body, like all of those things I learned way back in the day, but that wasn’t hot and sexy back in the day. Nobody wanted to talk about holistic health. Everybody just wanted to lose weight. They wanted to just lose weight.

And that’s how Stop Dieting Forever came up because I’m like, all right, diets don’t work. What does work? Oh, this is what works. But I never used, back then, longevity, holistic. Like it was all about, okay, let’s lose some weight. Let’s get into your skinny jeans. Like that was totally my messaging, the single size digit, like all of those things.

And now what I’m finding is that my clients can lose 10 pounds in 30 days because of what I’m teaching them from an emotional standpoint. But what I’m noticing is the response to that tagline, that marketing is slowing down a little bit.

And as I’ve been having conversations with people like with you and some other coaches, and I did an informal Instagram poll in my stories, are you interested, is your priority wellness or weight loss? Nobody chose weight loss. Nobody chose weight loss. It was all wellness.

So people are now wanting to, yep, I want to lose weight, but I also want to be like, be that confident person. I want that inner glow. I want to be the person who loves to drink a green drink and have my matcha protein shake. Like they’re interested in nutrition. They’re interested in food. And I’m like, that’s game on. That’s what I love.

So now I’m just like, okay, how do I take that and turn it into some marketing so I can introduce more people into Stop Dieting Forever?

Lindsay: Do you have an answer for that right now? Like, how do you make the shift? Or just something you’re thinking through?

Jennifer: So I’ve been thinking on it. I’ve been like, literally I’ve been journaling on it. I’ve been reading articles about wellness. I read a really good article today about Black women wellness. I was like, oh, this is good. So no, it hasn’t hit me yet. I’m waiting for the divine inspiration, but I’m just working through it. It will come to me and then you’ll know.

Lindsay: Yeah. This is my favorite answer though. Like, I don’t know. I’m just trying all the things. I’m just like, I’m figuring it out. I’m willing to try things, see if they land, see if it works, see what happens. I think that’s such a good lesson for probably everybody listening.

Jennifer: Yeah. And nothing has gone wrong. Everything I do is a success.

Lindsay: Except when it’s not, and then still nothing has gone wrong, but we just need to figure it out.

Jennifer: We’ll just learn from it. Like, okay, so we’ll just cross that off the list and we’ll just keep going. So that was a lesson learned.

Lindsay: Yeah. Maybe real quick, I hadn’t considered this, but since you just brought it up, I’m curious when you’re working with your clients if there’s a difference, like if you notice a difference in coaching in the space of wellness and coaching like women of color that hire you versus not? Versus like me.

Jennifer: It’s so funny, I always joke and I’m like white women from the Midwest love me.

Lindsay: Well, that tracks. I mean, here we are.

Jennifer: I love them too. They find my podcast and I coach a lot of them. There really isn’t a difference. You think there might be, but everyone has the same, like the circumstances that I coach people through are very similar. It’s like, oh, you know, I got mad at my boss, coworkers said this, my spouse is driving me nuts. Like it’s all very normal, no matter what race you are.

Lindsay: Right. Okay, I like it. Do you think, like when you think about kind of the shift that’s happening and the shift that you’re thinking about in your business, do you feel excited for it? Or how are you feeling about it just in general?

Jennifer: I think I’m at the excited part now. I think before I was like, ooh, oh. And then Oprah did the whole show on ABC. I don’t know if you saw that post, but my mom texted me and she’s like, are you watching Oprah’s special on weight loss? I was like, no. And she’s like, well, what if your clients have questions? I was like, well, I will tell them what I know and not what Oprah thinks.

Lindsay: Yes.

Jennifer: She was just like, understood.

Lindsay: I actually did see that and I was like, yes, get it. That’s so good. I’ll tell them I’m the expert at what I do, and if you want to learn from her –

Jennifer: I had to work myself up to that because I was like, you know, I love Oprah. Like I talked about Oprah all the time and like, you know, auntie O. But I was like, no, Oprah, use your platform for good. Don’t promote a weight loss drug.

But, you know, she’s had her struggle. She looks fantastic. If she feels healthy and she feels great, all power to her. However, there are bigger issues at play that cause obesity. She could have used her platform for that. But, you know, who am I? This is my platform. This is my chance to say what Oprah didn’t say.

Lindsay: Yes, so good. And I think for any coach listening, when you’re thinking about your marketing or your whatever, the same can be true, right? We see this often where sometimes people’s marketing can turn into like marketing against something or like, I don’t like this thing happening, but then you end up talking about that.

It would be like if all you were doing, besides the post that you did, which was genius, like if all you were doing was talking about, here’s why Oprah’s wrong or whatever. Versus here’s what I know. Here’s what I’m an expert at. Let’s just stay in that lane.

Jennifer: Let’s just talk about that. And then I’m like, not everybody wants to go on Ozempic. I mean, listen, or whatever the weight loss drug is. Those side effects are nasty. They’re pretty nasty. And they don’t talk about the people who don’t stick with it and what happens to their bodies after they go off it.

Lindsay: Yeah. I can’t even be a part of the conversation because I don’t really know. But what I do know is that this shows up in my news feed just in the scroll, whether it’s like a news article or whatever. And so if it’s showing up in mine and I have a pretty curated, for example, like on Instagram, I’m pretty curated. I have like one fourth, like plant content, just like random stuff.

Like I have plant content, I have horse content because my daughter likes to watch horse videos and we do that on my Instagram. You know, like one fourth whatever and one fourth like coach content. And that’s about all I see. So if I’m seeing it as much as I am, I can’t imagine what it looks like in the feed of someone who is actively clicking the links, reading the things, Googling more information or searching for more information. You know, I think we forget how truly powerful the algorithm is of like hijacking what we see and what we are exposed to.

Jennifer: Yeah. So you’ve got to come up with your own opinions, people, do your own research.

Lindsay: I like it. Okay, so one more thing that I thought could be interesting for people listening, since they’re mostly coaches/entrepreneurs, is what do you see, like when you think about – When your clients are entrepreneurs, what do you see as the difference or like what are the things that come up for them that are maybe a little specific to entrepreneurs when it comes to wellness, health, weight loss, any of that, that don’t necessarily, like maybe they come up with everyone, but they’re just like very specific to entrepreneurs?

Jennifer: Yeah, I like to talk to entrepreneurs a lot because I am an entrepreneur. So I understand the emotions that go along with creating clients and marketing yourself and being visible. Like I understand all of that. And if you’re an emotional eater, I get it. You are my people, I understand.

So I do talk specifically to entrepreneurs. I also talk to corporate executives because I spent 17 years in corporate America understanding the stress that comes along with having to like travel on the drop of a dime or like run a team.

I mean, same thing with an entrepreneur. Like for those of you who are scaling your business, you’ve got to hire people. And all of a sudden you’re responsible for not only your clients, but you’re also responsible for leading a team member or two team members or three team members. And if you don’t know how to do that, that can be very stressful.

So what I have found with just being in the coaching community and talking to different people who have gone through these seasons of incredible growth in their business, they usually let their weight go. Like they just can’t focus on eating properly or eating to support their health. They’re just like, I’m all into my business and they gain all the weight. And then they reach a point where they’re like, okay, they’re good in their business. And then they’re like, okay, now I’m going to focus on my weight.

So I’m starting to see those people. And I’m just like, hey, you can grow your business and still focus on your weight. It doesn’t have to be either or because when you learn how to manage your mind and you learn stress management techniques, as you’re growing your business you’re going to end up eating less. You’re not going to be doing all the stress snacking and all the things. So I’m like, y’all just do it together. It doesn’t have to be two different things.

Lindsay: Yes, I totally agree with that. And I think emotional eating isn’t a big thing that I, I don’t know, struggle, is that the right word? It’s not a big thing that I think about. I prefer wine, I think, over food. So we all have the thing, right?

Jennifer: Rose all day.

Lindsay: That’s right. But I mean, I just think just being an entrepreneur, it’s like if you work from home, you’re at home, there’s just food there all of the time, at least for me, right? I always have food at my house. And I have kids, which means I have food that I might not necessarily eat usually. And I do think if that was something that I had to put a lot of energy into thinking about, I could see how that would be different than being at an office, being distracted, being whatever. I’m sure there are challenges that come up with that too.

Jennifer: Or the same. It’s like at the office you can walk down to the vending machine and grab chips or walk down to the Starbucks or kitchen, same thing. You’re working from home. You can run over to the kitchen and grab a little bite of last night’s dinner. Or that cake that’s sitting on the counter, you can just stick a forkful in it.

Lindsay: You’re right. You’re right. You got me on that. When I pull up my husband’s credit card, when I’m paying his credit card thing, I’m like, what are all of these charges? Oh, that’s the downstairs like snack bar or whatever he calls it. So yeah, I guess that makes sense. I love it.

Okay, so I think those are the main things that I wanted to talk about. There are two things I want to tell you, but I want to save them for the end. Is there anything else that you want to say, that you want to bring up, that you feel compelled to discuss while we’re here?

Jennifer: I just, first of all, I’m so proud of you two years Coach Lab.

Lindsay: Thank you.

Jennifer: And I think I said this to you on the celebration, but the work that you do to support other coaches is like, you can’t find that anywhere else because we give, as coaches we give so much of ourselves and we really want the best for our clients. And it’s like, who’s supporting us? Who’s supporting us? And so, you are. So thank you for that.

Lindsay: I love that. Thank you. Thank you so much for saying that. That is very kind. And I’m working on receiving. This is always my work. Just like, okay, I hear you. Normally I’m like, just don’t really listen, then I don’t have to feel weird.

Jennifer: Receive it all. Just open your arms and say, thank you.

Lindsay: Yes. Oh my gosh, were you on the call when I started crying at the beginning of The Coach Lab celebration?

Jennifer: Yes.

Lindsay: It just hit me, this wave came over. I just immediately started crying.

Jennifer: It was special.

Lindsay: It really came out of nowhere. So I’m working on just like, yes, I’m proud of myself too. And I love this work. There’s no other work that I would rather be doing.

Jennifer: I agree. I agree.

Lindsay: Okay, so two things that I want to tell you. I don’t think I’ve ever told you this. Maybe I have and I just forgot, but one thing I’ll just share with the listeners because they might think this is funny. When you were my one-on-one client, I had been a coach for, I don’t know, years at that point. It’s not like I was a brand new coach. Was it like 2019 maybe?

Jennifer: It was 20, yeah, 2019-ish, 2018-ish.

Lindsay: Okay, so I’d been a coach for like four years or something. When I mentioned it to my husband, I don’t even know how this came up. When I mentioned it to him, because when you hired me you worked for – And I don’t know, I’ll let you decide if you want to say the name. But you were a contractor at a company that he has heard of.

Jennifer: It’s a very big company.

Lindsay: Yes.

Jennifer: A pretty big global company.

Lindsay: And I think it was the first time, but it was so offhanded that I said the name of it and I think it was the first time that he was like, what? Like you’re coaching who? It was just such a funny moment of like, really, this is the thing? But he has remembered it ever since.

Jennifer: Really?

Lindsay: Uh-huh, isn’t that funny?

Jennifer: That’s so funny. I mean, I’m not surprised that he said that, but the impact of like, oh, she worked at that company. Because I don’t know if you remember, but that was like my whole identity. Like as a consultant, a management consultant, it took me a while to really step into the coach identity. It was very difficult to step away from being a consultant because, you know.

Lindsay: I remember, we coached so much on it.

Jennifer: We did important things.

Lindsay: You were changing the world.

Jennifer: Changing the world on someone else’s dime. But yeah, that is funny.

Lindsay: It’s like it made my business more legitimate in his eyes, I think. Just like, oh my, like you –

Jennifer: Because of the company I used to contract with?

Lindsay: Yes, isn’t that hilarious? I was like, okay. We had a talk about it, don’t worry. So how do you feel about that now? Like years later, are you like, thank goodness I’m here? Do you miss it? Do you?

Jennifer: This is funny, in my last program I had a client who joined, and you know how you have your Zoom profile picture? She had her camera off. And I looked at her picture and it was like, I know that background, because we all had the same background for our professional headshots.

And she came on camera and I was like, “Do you work for such and such?” She was like, “Yeah.” I don’t think she wanted to talk about it on camera, so after we stopped recording, I mean, it’s not a bad company. It’s just a really big company. You just never know who’s listening. I don’t know what she did there, it’s a huge company.

But that was just so ironic. I was like, so you hear me talking about this company on the podcast? And she’s like, yeah, I understand, you know, when you were talking about your travels and things, she’s like, this is why I love you so much.

Lindsay: Yeah, that’s good.

Jennifer: And I was like, did we meet before at work? She was like, no. She’s like, I found you on your podcast.

Lindsay: That’s amazing. Did you like overlap like when you worked there?

Jennifer: No, I have no idea who she is. And I think she was – I tried to look her up. I was like, I wonder where she works. So I tried to look her up on LinkedIn, but I think she’s using a different, like a maiden name. So it’s fine.

Lindsay: We’re making this company sound very cryptic. It wasn’t like the FBI or anything.

Jennifer: No, no, no. I can say what it is. It’s Deloitte, which is just if you know management consulting companies, it’s like one of the largest global consulting firms in the world. They employ like, I don’t know, 100,000s of people. And so I worked there for 10 years.

Lindsay: And isn’t their name, like it’s in the big five or something like that, isn’t it?

Jennifer: I think it’s a big four now. But I started with E&Y, then I worked with Accenture. And then I moved to Deloitte. So I have the professional services trifecta, which is like, you know, in those circles, it’s like, oh, okay.

Lindsay: Well, yeah, that’s why my husband had that reaction because he knows. I mean, I hear the word Accenture just when he’s talking on calls now, like with his team or whatever. So that’s why he had that reaction, right? Like, oh. And it’s such a funny mindset of like something about that just really struck him as like, whoa.

Jennifer: Yeah, I’m special and you’re special.

Lindsay: I love it. Okay, the other thing I want to tell you is, I think I’ve kind of mentioned this to you before but I’m just going to, especially because you made me sit here and listen to compliments and just receive them. I just want you to know, first, I just love you. I think you know that. I have told you that before.

And I listen to your podcast a lot, even though I don’t listen to it – There’s a reason I want to plug this. I don’t listen to it through the lens of weight loss, I think you teach so many things that I’ve learned from you that are just about taking care of myself and just even as an entrepreneur, like taking care of myself when I travel. Taking care of myself, like how do I arrive somewhere and not just be exhausted from traveling all day or need a recovery day?

And just things like that that are just like nuggets that’s one of those like take what you need and like leave the rest. So some of it I’m like, that’s not really something I’m thinking about. But just from an energy, just general wellness perspective I think your podcast is excellent. And I love your voice and the way you teach. So that is really useful as well.

Jennifer: Y’all can’t see me right now, but I’m gushing. Thank you. Oh, wow. I didn’t know you were a Lux Lifer.

Lindsay: Yeah, I don’t listen – It’s not one that I, and actually I’m not like this with many podcasts right now, except like not coaching ones. It’s not like every week I’m like, oh, it’s whatever day this is out. But I’ll listen in chunks. Like I’ll listen to like five at a time or when I’m traveling, I’ll download a couple of them and listen.

Jennifer: Well, good. I expect a five star review.

Lindsay: Oh, I already gave you one today.

Jennifer: You did?

Lindsay: Yeah.

Jennifer: Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Lindsay: Of course. I was on there because I was just – When I have guests on, if I know they have a podcast, I might just go see what are they talking about right now? Or like, what are some of the hot topics that sound fun that I want to dive into? So, yeah, I was like, I don’t know if I’ve reviewed this, better do it.

Jennifer: Well, thank you. Like I just recorded episode 200 today, which is mind boggling to me.

Lindsay: It’s so fun though. Do you love having a podcast? Is it like a labor of love? Do you love it?

Jennifer: It’s a labor of love.

Lindsay: Okay.

Jennifer: It is a labor of love. I love having the podcast, however, this neurodivergent brain, it takes a minute to get my thoughts organized and to get everything to come out as seamlessly and as wonderfully as it does when y’all hear it in the published version.

Lindsay: Maybe that’s one thing I love about it because I can completely relate to the wandering brain. And I know, listening to it I know how much work you must put in to get it so concise and great because I know sometimes I don’t do that. And then I’ll hear clips of the podcast and I’m like, oh boy, I’ve got to bring it in next time. I need some more notes.

Jennifer: Yeah, no. No, trust me, I’ve tried all the ways. I don’t know if you remember this, but I was like, Lindsay, I was like, how do you do your podcast? I was like, do you outline? I was like, do you write it out? Like, what do you do? And I think that’s when you had just started.

Lindsay: And I was like, I write it out, the whole thing.

Jennifer: Yeah, me too.

Lindsay: Thank goodness I don’t do that anymore.

Jennifer: I have to get all of my thoughts organized. Now I can be a little bit more like outlining, but I have done the like, let me just grab the mic and start talking. I’m like, y’all, just bear with me.

Lindsay: Sometimes I do that and I think it’s great. Sometimes I do that and I’m like, oh, we’re not putting that one out there.

Jennifer: I’m like, whatever. Once I hit done, it’s done. And I’m like, if y’all love me and you’re rocking with what I’m saying, you’re going to keep listening. If you don’t, you’ll just stop and keep going, and hopefully come back later.

Lindsay: Well, I love it. I think it’s excellent.

Jennifer: Thank you, I appreciate that.

Lindsay: Tell them what your podcast is called so that they can find it.

Jennifer: Oh yeah, Stop Dieting Forever with Jennifer Dent Brown.

Lindsay: Love it. I was also thinking about, I don’t even remember what it was, but there was something I saw on your podcast today that brought me back to these memories of being little and just thinking about diet culture and the things that we’re just programmed with growing up. And I remember probably in second grade, third grade drinking Slim Fast for breakfast, because it’s just like, not because I was trying to lose weight, but it’s just what my mom had at the house.

Jennifer: And it tasted good. They were good.

Lindsay: It was like a milkshake, kind of. As close as I could get at that age to her letting me drink a milkshake for breakfast. And let’s be honest, a lot of times I was home by myself trying to get myself on the bus or whatever. And I was just like, oh, this will be fine.

Jennifer: Slim Fast to go. You can still taste the little chalkiness in your mouth, can’t you?

Lindsay: I can close my eyes and it literally feels like it is there. I remember it so distinctly. And then doing some Jane Fonda workouts.

Jennifer: Denise Austin. Did you do Denise Austin?

Lindsay: A little bit. My mom preferred Jane Fonda. And the one that I had that was like my workout tape was Latoya Jackson step video.

Jennifer: Oh, I didn’t have Latoya’s workout. Oh, I didn’t know Latoya was a workout person.

Lindsay: Listen, I mean, I don’t think she was. I think she was just leading it. I’ll have to see if I can find a clip because I can’t imagine now what it looked like, but it was like step aerobics.

Jennifer: Oh God, that’s hilarious. I didn’t know about Latoya, she was like a –

Lindsay: It must have been like a one off. I don’t even know. I don’t know how that came into my life, but I had it.

Jennifer: Good, you had some diversity in your workouts. Good, good.

Lindsay: I was always like, Mom, okay, Jane is great, but what about Latoya Jackson? Do you know who that is?

Jennifer: That is hilarious.

Lindsay: All right, we may have gone off the rails, but this was amazing. Thank you for being here.

Jennifer: Yeah, it was good to catch up.

Lindsay: Tell everyone where can they find you?

Jennifer: Well, you can find me at JenniferDent.com. I think you can also find me at Jennifer Dent Brown. I feel like I bought that URL. But you can find me on my podcast, on Instagram at Jennifer Dent Brown. I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on Facebook, Coach Jennifer Dent. So if you go to my website, you can find all the places.

Lindsay: And we will link them all, too, in the show notes. So they will look it up to see if you actually have both of those, they’ll link both of them and then they can come interact with you. You have great content. Everybody should come see what you’re doing.

Jennifer: Oh, and I have some new freebies, too, that I just put up on my website.

Lindsay: What are they?

Jennifer: One is, I forget the exact name of it.

Lindsay: I put you on the spot.

Jennifer: Yeah, it’s like how to reduce nighttime snacking. So a lot of my clients eat after, you know, between dinner and going to bed. So I put together a little guide for that, a little challenge to reduce your nighttime snacking. And the newest one is, I think it’s called how to lose weight in a week.

Lindsay: Simple, perfect.

Jennifer: Which teaches the five different types of hunger. So it’s not like, you know, drink a gallon of water and do two workouts a day. That’s not what we’re talking about here. Teaching you about physical hunger versus emotional hunger and how to know the difference.

Lindsay: I love it. Okay. Thank you so much for being here today. This was so fun. And I’m just really grateful that you agreed to do this.

Jennifer: Thank you, Lindsay. Thank you. Good chatting with you.

Lindsay: Bye.

Jennifer: Bye bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.