Ep #21: Business and Pleasure with Danielle Savory

Hi, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills, episode 21.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Oh my goodness, hello. Today, I have such a treat for you. And I know I say this every time I have a guest on, but today is going to be something so fun. So, as you know, probably by now, I usually interview clients that have worked with me. But I have a couple of guests lines up that are colleagues and coaches that I have actually worked with myself.

We started with Stacey Boehman a few weeks ago. And I just think they represent some of the best coaches in the industry. And since that’s what we’re all about here, I wanted to have some of them on to share some of their brilliance with you, to talk a little bit about how they get started with coaching, how they navigate being an amazing coach. Because, of course, that is applicable to all of you.

So, today, so special. I’m having a conversation with another one of my best friends. Yes, I have a lot of those. I love best friends. And today, we’re talking to sex coach extraordinaire and the queen of all things pleasure Danielle Savory. If you know Danielle, then you already know this episode is going to be spicy and delicious.

And I don’t usually say this – actually, I’ve never said it yet. But sometimes, you guys tell me, so grateful I don’t cuss, et cetera, and you like to listen to this with your kids. Today, I’m just going to give you a little warning, we’re not that graphic at all, but we do talk about sex and some grown up concepts.

So, maybe pop some earbuds in or save this one for later when the kids aren’t around if you happen to be in the car or working with your kids around. The other thing I wanted to add before we get started is that Danielle and I mostly talk about sex and pleasure for women and for entrepreneurs just in general. But here’s what I want to share.

Danielle works with women, but I know not everyone that listens to this podcast is a woman. So, if you’re not a woman or you don’t identify as a woman, that is okay. There are still going to be so many takeaways from this episode. I hope that you learn a lot and really, really enjoy this conversation. Let’s do it.

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Lindsay: Hello.

Danielle: Hi.

Lindsay: How are you today?

Danielle: Good. This is so fun.

Lindsay: I know. I am so excited for this. we have been talking about this for a while.

Danielle: Yes.

Lindsay: So first, please introduce yourself and tell people what you do.

Danielle: I am Danielle Savory. And yes, that’s my real last name. So, just destined to be a sex coach, which is what I do, tasty and delicious. It was in the stars. So, I am a sex coach for women, helping them increase their desire and actually enjoy it and not have it on their to-do list and have more pleasure and all the orgasms. Yeah, that’s what I do.

Lindsay: Love it. Okay, and I may have said this in the intro, but I just want to reiterate that you are not a client of mine. We are colleagues. We are also best friends. And I have been your client, which is so fun. And so, one thing I want you to talk about for just a second is what kind of sex coach are you? Because I’m sure that people listening, some people are like, “Whoa, oh no, that’s not for me.” So, I just think within the realm of pleasure coaches, sex coaches, whatever else they might go by, there are different flavors of that, right?

Danielle: Yeah, and I think that’s just so great for all of us to acknowledge within every niche, right? You might have a particular niche, but what you bring to it, your energy, your flavor can be so different. And that’s so liberating, I think, for us as coaches to understand that just because we’re in this niche, it could be totally different than somebody else in our niche.

And so, for me, my background is in neuroscience. I also taught meditation and mindfulness has been a huge part of my life for over a decade in my personal practice, but also in my professional practice. And so, my approach to sex coaching tends to be more in the logical, I guess, that might not even be the right word, but using people that might be a little bit afraid of the words like goddess and feminine energy and all of these things.

And even though those are things that I can personally support and I’m behind and I’m passionate about, that’s just not my language that I tend to speak into in my coaching. I really love bringing in the brain, bringing in the neuroscience, and with the type of women that I tend to work with, which are go-getters and busy women and high achievers, they really want to understand why. They want to understand why this is important, why they should make the time, why they should fit it into their lives.

And that’s where I was. That’s where I was personally but also as a coach. And it’s always allowed me to have so much more self-compassion and also so much more motivation when I understand the systems at work.

And so, for me, regardless of if it’s a post or if it’s in my course or the way that I’m coaching, I’m always infusing it with this science because that really does make a difference for so many women, especially when they’re approaching this thing that can be saturated in shame or in confusion or anything else, this really helps us approach – and I just make jokes all the time. I’m like the sex coach that just makes you laugh even when you’re crying.

Lindsay: I remember one of my favorite – so many favorite things of working with you and really just of being your friend also, because of course, you, even if I’m not specifically coming to you for coaching, you might sometimes offer me some advice. And one thing I really love is that I could ask for coaching on something and not only would you coach me but you would also explain the science behind it.

I have a very nerdy brain. I love math. I love science. And for me, it was like, such a deeper understanding of why my body is doing what it’s doing or why I’m just thinking the things I’m thinking and that for me was huge. Plus, of course, the meditation piece, which is something I’ve always really liked. And so, for you to wrap that piece in was really great for me too.

Danielle: Yeah, well I think it’s like, when you’re telling somebody to go sit on a cushion quietly for 20 minutes you’re just like, “WTF, why would I do that?” But when you really understand what it’s doing for you or why we’re doing it, I think that it does. It helps so much. I even have a client now and she makes me stop and is like, “Tell me exactly what’s happening in the brain because I’m not on board with it.”

And then, by the end of an explanation, she’s like, “Okay, I’m totally going to do that.” And it helps to have that explanation for so many people. Not everybody needs it, but I needed it, so I assumed other people probably needed it too.

Lindsay: I was going to tell you before we started and I completely forgot. I’m actually sitting on your pillow right now, the meditation pillow that you sent me. A lot of times, I will sit down – when I’m not doing an interview, I always sit on this pillow. So I will sit down and have a quiet moment in my closet, surrounded by the dresses that you can see right now, just have a minute to myself and be quiet for a minute before I record. So, I just wanted to tell you that.

One thing I do want to kind of explore with you, because I do think that sex coaching is, like that niche is very – what’s the word I’m looking for…

Danielle: Taboo.

Lindsay: Yeah, like it could be, right? I don’t think it’s taboo, but I could see how other people could. So, I just want to kind of explore, how did you pick that niche? How did you get into it? How did you get started? Have you always been a sex coach? Or were you something else and now you’re a sex coach? Wherever you want to start with that.

Danielle: Yeah, well it’s a great question. And I feel like I have a lot of different answers for it because I don’t think it was ever a straight line for me from getting from, “Yes, this is what I’m doing,” and then I just kept going and doing it. There was a lot of a few steps forward, few steps back sort of thing.

But I had this inkling that it’s something that I did really want to address just because of my own personal journey. And you know, but your listeners don’t know, for me when I even got into coaching and I got into mindfulness and meditation, it’s because I had hit such a low point in my life. I had hit such a dark period. I was bedridden for two years. I couldn’t work. I couldn’t do anything because of health issues and the pain in my body made activities of daily living very difficult.

And this was also right after I got married, so my husband and I were wanting to have a baby and I had some failed pregnancies and it was just like everything felt like failure. I felt like a failure. And so, when your body feels like it’s failing you, when it’s riddled with pain, when you’re not getting out of bed and you feel rather worthless, the last thing that you want to do is have sex or even be touched. But also, knowing that that was a huge part, like if I wanted to have a baby, we know how the birds and the bees work, this was probably a part of it.

And it was so heartbreaking because my husband and I had such a passionate fun relationship and I felt like that was a huge part of us. So, there was so much sadness, like this is who we are. And if I can’t do this with my partner, what’s the future of our marriage and us and who am I as a woman? There was just so much heartbreak and doubt and just shame wrapped up in all of that.

And that’s when I really found mindfulness. And even though I studied – Buddhist philosophy was my minor in college and I knew it from this cognitive understanding. I understood the concept of mindfulness, but I never actually practiced it.

And so, during this time, I went to a yoga class and I started to find my breath and I started to realize this asshole that was living in my brain with me was creating so much more of this tension. And that was like the beginning of all of it. That was the beginning of me becoming aware of my thoughts and how that was impacting my body and how it was impacting my health and my relationship and everything.

But I knew ultimately, I wanted to heal that relationship I had with my body and I knew that healing that relationship I had with my body would also heal that relationship with my husband. And I also have background in sexual assault and sexual trauma and abuse. And so, it just kind of felt like this pinnacle of all of the things.

And when I started focusing on that part and healing that part, it was like everything else seemed to be wrapped up in it. It seemed to get taken care of when I personally was going through that. And then I heard of a life coach, because I was looking at maybe becoming a therapist and I was at this training, this self-compassion training for therapists. And I met somebody that was a life coach and I was like, what is this?

I was like, that sounds exactly like what I want to do. And so, then I went through and I went through all the training and certification and I’ve done I don’t even know how many different types of trainings and certifications since then. But I knew that was a part of it.

And even during my first year of starting to coach people, I knew I really wanted to coach women on intimacy and sex and healing past traumas and being able to reconnect with their partner, all these things. But it was so scary.

And I think it was about five years ago now, maybe six years ago, did my first webinar called Get Out Of Your Head and Into Your Vagina, and it was so good. And I did it. But the response I got; it wasn’t like how it is on social media now. This was five years ago. People were just posting pictures of their food and their chubby babies. That was it.

You know, that was a totally different texture to the social media world back then. We weren’t having these brave conversations. We weren’t having these courageous conversations. We weren’t talking about our opinions and what we thought and all this different stuff. That really wasn’t happening.

Lindsay: I’m going to interrupt you. I feel like that is truly one of my favorite things about you. I just have this visual of you walking into this room where everybody’s talking about what’s for dinner and you’re like, “But how about vaginas?”

Danielle: Yes, and that’s how it felt. And I remember even my husband, he was just like, “Wow, I’m getting on Facebook now…” But it was like I knew I wanted to, but to do it publicly, it was so different. It was such a different environment and I just completely shut down and freaked out.

And I was doing a bunch of women’s groups and a lot of guest speaking at the time and so, once people were kind of in my realm and they got to know me and I was like, “By the way, this is what I really coach on,” kind of thing, so it was more this hush-hush and people knew about it but I wasn’t talking about it on social media because it still felt very unsafe in a lot of ways.

And the comments that I was getting and the misunderstandings and the ridicules and the comments from men and people saying I’m damaged. And when you’re a woman out in the world saying anything publicly, that can be very scary and you’re building up your courage muscle.

But when you’re coming out and talking about sexuality and sensuality, all of the things that made it hard for us to embrace this part of ourselves to begin with gets shoved in your face. You know, men thinking that you’re easy, men saying that you’re damaged, and then women thinking all of the wrong thoughts about you, those same type of slut-shaming tendencies.

And that just came out in full force, and so I retreated. I was so afraid and it triggered so much anxiety in me that it was hard enough trying to start a business, but then starting a business with that type of, I don’t know, response, reaction, it was just so hard. And so, I just kept it more private for a long time.

And then, I went on a retreat in Mexico with you and with Stacey and we were all at this table and everyone was just like, “How can you not do this? you’re obviously an expert. You talk abut it so effortlessly. This is your thing.” And I was like yeah, I think it’s time now. And it had been so private and something I’d been coaching on for years at the time but not ever, quote unquote marketing to it or talking about it or being open with my ideas. And I got on the airplane and I said, “Once I get on this airplane, when I land, I’m a sex coach and I’m not going back.”

Lindsay: And you haven’t. That’s when I met you. And as long as I have known you, you’ve been a sex coach.

Danielle: Yeah. So that was like three years ago.

Lindsay: So fun. There are so many things I could dive into about that, but one thing that comes to my mind is I have a lot of clients who will come to me with some drama – I don’t even know how they say it, but somehow, basically, in their mind they’re thinking their business is not in their control and tomorrow maybe they’re going to wake up and have all of a sudden 20 clients. And I coach on this a lot because it’s always not logical.

First of all, you also have drama about finding clients, so what in the world? How do you think you’re going to wake up tomorrow and your business has taken off without you? But I think that this is such a good example of there are so many coaches that are like, “I want to make a million dollars and I want to coach hundreds of people in my niche.”

And this is one of those things where it’s like, “Do you though?” Like, have you worked through all the things? All they’re thinking about in that situation is like making a million dollars or having the million dollars or working with the dream clients. But the comments and the unwanted feedback that you get as a business owner is tricky and I can’t even imagine what that’s like for you. You and I talk about it all the time, and I say yeah, I would probably quit.

Danielle: Yeah, I send you screenshots and you’re like, “I just can’t…” It gives me no faith in humanity.

Lindsay: I would have to coach myself on that every single day. Like, is this real life? This is terrible.

Danielle: And I think that’s the other part of it too. It’s like, you do want that. But I don’t think for a lot of women, especially women wanting to get into sex coaching realize, you’re doing your own work behind the scenes. And if you do have a background at all with trauma, whether that’s straight up sexual type trauma or if you’re dealing with other things that are triggering, just the slut shaming or the bullying or if that’s a trigger for you from when you were younger, it’s important to realize, those do come into play.

And I’m not saying don’t do it. But just be prepared that a lot of the work that you’re doing isn’t just in your client-facing work. It’s behind the scenes to build your courage muscle, to be able to put yourself in this vulnerable space, to be able to use your voice in this big, bold way that a lot of people aren’t going to agree with and are going to misunderstand and are going to ridicule you, and then not even just to mention that, but just the whole other side of the patriarchy, which is a woman talking about sex and what that means to men is it’s a different world than we think.

We’re like, that just sounds so great, to be able to do that. And it is. It’s beautiful. But prepare yourself to do a lot of your own work to build a container of safety within your own body, within yourself, within your support system, because that’s part of the work.

Lindsay: What would you say are the couple, if you can give the couple top things that you did to kind of work through that? I know you said “I’m going to get on this plane and when I land this is just who I am and it’s what I do,” but either ongoing since then or to work up to that point, can you think of a couple of things that you could – and this could be for anyone, whether their niche is sex coaching or whether they’re like, “I want to be a general life coach and I’m scared to post on social media.”

Danielle: Yeah, most people, it’s funny, when they start working with me they’re like, “You’re really just the self-compassion coach.” But that’s so much of it, is just really holding my heart. I would have things that I would say to myself consistently, like it’s okay, you’re safe. I have meditations just around creating this feeling of safety in my body, like how to calm down the anxiety, how to calm down the fear.

Like, really meeting myself and just putting my hand on my heart and feeling it there and being just like, “Of course you’re afraid.” Just really acknowledging, “Baby girl, of course you’re afraid. You put yourself out there in a big bold way and that’s scary. I’m so proud of you. And how can I take care of you now?” And really asking myself, not only am I acknowledging that it’s okay to be afraid and okay to be nervous, and of course I am, but then what do I need to feel safe?

So, that was a huge part, just my inner dialogue of continuously creating this container of safety for myself and belonging and bringing to mind all of the people that were on my team. I would close my eyes and I would picture hugging you and picture hugging Stacey and my best friend and Claire and all these people that I love so much that I know are rooting me on, you know, like Maggie, all the people in the coaching world, Melanie.

Or reaching out to these people too, when I’d had a hard day, and letting them help remind me of my bold moves and my brave moves, and also doing the things that support me like getting out into nature is a huge part for me. I feel so held by the force. And so, I would just make sure I got out into nature a few times a week just to reset and be like, “Hey, you’re okay. Everything’s okay. Keep going. You’re doing it.” And giving myself the space to just take the time that I needed. I think that’s important for everybody.

It’s like we have this rush and this comparison of what other people are doing and the pace that they’re doing it with. And acknowledging my pace is just my pace because of my past, because of where I’m at right now, because of all this stuff. And it’s okay, it doesn’t mean that I’m less than. I’m going to take my time. But I’m going to create so much resilience as I’m going through it and I’ll get there eventually.

Lindsay: Yes, someday I’m going to come be in nature with you in Oregon in the mountains, in the yurt with bunnies. That’s our joke. Whenever I have a bad week I’m like, “You know what? I’m just going to come live in the yurt with bunnies.” I don’t even know why bunnies, like that’s just what I said one day and it stuck.

Danielle: I don’t know about the bunnies thing but…

Lindsay: I think I’m actually probably allergic to bunnies, so it would probably be a terrible idea.

Danielle: You’re allergic to everything, so…

Lindsay: It’s fine. Okay, what’s interesting is that when I hear you describe that – and I’ve thought about his before and I think you and I have talked about it before – we tend to work with similar types of women, of clients. I don’t necessarily work with only women, but it’s pretty much who my clients have been up until this point. And when women have that personality, that drive, and like to be good at things, put a lot of pressure on themselves, at the end of the day, whether I’m coaching them on their coaching and their business and their coaching practice, or you’re coaching them on sex, aren’t we kind of both just self-compassion coaches?

Danielle: Totally. Yeah, and that’s what we don’t even realize we need. And it always comes back to the way that we’re speaking to ourselves and the pressure we’re putting on ourselves or what we’re making something mean. And it really becomes apparent in these things.

And for sex coaching or any kind of body coaching, like when I’m bringing people into their bodies, you can’t lie to yourself that you’re being nice to yourself. It’s very apparent right away that the way that they’re speaking to themselves is not creating a container that pleasure can enter because you’ve literally become your enemy and when you’re living in your body with your enemy, it’s always in the stress cycle. It’s always under pressure. It’s always feeling like failure. And that is not a conducive environment to feel good, let alone have mind-blowing orgasms.

Lindsay: My gosh, okay, this is so weird, but you know how weird my brain is sometimes. I literally just had a flash of the movie, is it called Sleeping with the Enemy? Where it’s like living in the house with your enemy literally always being afraid, always on high alert. I think that’s what it’s called.

Danielle: Yeah, I don’t – but yes, that’s exactly what it’s like and that’s what I love to explain to my clients. I was like, this is what you’re doing. Until we can change that, you’re always going to be this scared, frightened tensed up thing. And guess what, when you’re scared, frightened, tensed up, you have no blood flow to the lady parts that are going to bring you all of the fun.

Lindsay: Yes. When you say pleasure, what does that mean for you? Because does that mean – I know the answer to this, but I just want for anyone who’s listening who’s like, “What does this really mean? Does she just coach on having sex?” Obviously, the answer is no. But when you think about pleasure, how do you describe that and what is it that you’re most often coaching on?

Danielle: Yeah, I think it – well, it goes hand in hand with desire. So, so many women, I think, struggle with wanting it, especially in our very full lives, busy lives. A lot of women that I work with are entrepreneurs or business owners or high up in academia or other careers. And so, to them, they’re like, “Yeah, but I find a lot of pleasure, I have a lot of fun working on my business or working in these other places…”

Lindsay: I never said that ever.

Danielle: “But I’m so excited about this project I’m creating. I’d rather do that…” right? And helping women understand, especially potentialites and passionistas, I don’t know if that’s a thing. I’m just going to make it up. But when we have these other things, why take the time for this? Why put ourselves on hold?

So, I think that desire part, they do actually want to want it but they haven’t quite figured out what the benefit is or how to get themselves onboard. And deep down, they know that it’s important. And also that I talk about the benefits all of the time. And more importantly that this is part of who we are. Our sensuality and our sexuality I part of who we are as a woman, not just to talk about what it offers us, but the fact that it’s part of us.

So, it’s either part of us that we’re pretending isn’t there, like that hidden closet with all of the stuff that you’re just pretending isn’t there, you’re like, “I don’t want to touch that. I’m not going to organize that at all…”

Lindsay: You just put it in, close the door as fast as possible…

Danielle: Close the door, just done. So, we’re not bringing our whole self to the table. We’re not bringing it all to the table of who we can be and how we can show up when we’re not bringing this part to the table. And so, really helping women create that desire and create that want, that’s a huge part of the work that we’re doing because for so long and in this society, there’s all of this pressure and this stress and this shame. So it’s like, no, duh, of course you don’t really want to because it doesn’t feel like you.

So, that’s a chunk of the work. But then, when it comes to pleasure, guess what? It’s really easy to want something if it feels good. If it’s really fun, if it lights you up. And so, when I’m talking about pleasure, that’s like dropping into your body and being able to pau attention to sensation that feels good, but then also having the ability to increase good sensations. Because the way that we’re wired, number one, we’re not really in our bodies. But we tend to focus so much on the negative. So, helping rewire that brain for the pleasure and the satisfaction and the happiness in our lives.

And that doesn’t just happen because we pay attention during sex. There are so many other elements when you’re asking, like, do we just coach on sex? No, we have to get in the body. We have to learn to tend towards pleasure, turn our head towards it in all areas of our life. And that’s why so many women that I work with, they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I’m having so much fun in my business and I’m having so much pleasure over here and I’m so present with my children, and then I’m having this lit up encounter in the bedroom as well,” because we’re working on that muscle, quote unquote, in your brain. We’re working on doing it all of the places so it’s more accessible to you in this realm of sex.

Lindsay: Yes, and when you, even the way you define sex, let’s just be clear for anyone that’s listening, does that mean – I’m sure there are people listening who aren’t coupled, right, or who are single or who just choose to have multiple partners, there’s so many different scenarios. So, you and I mostly talk about our…

Danielle: Genitals…

Lindsay: Husbands…

Danielle: Obviously genitals are involved in pleasurable touch. So, it can be just you and yourself. It can be you and your partner. And it doesn’t have to be penetration. We really have to expand our idea of what we even consider sex to be. That alone gives us so much more self-compassion.

Lindsay: A small piece of my experience I think before, one reason I hired you is as an entrepreneur and most people that are listening to this are probably entrepreneurs. And whether they’re men or women, as entrepreneurs, one thing that happens is that it always feels like there are five fires to put out.

I would always use the analogy of, like, it feels like I’m spinning five plates in the air. But sex isn’t one of them because it doesn’t feel like an immediate – it’s not on fire. It’s not a fire to put out. I need to do all these other things first. I’ll put that off for later. And it’s so easy to do. What would you say is one way or maybe even the first step to just start working through that?

Danielle: Schedule sex. For real. And everybody is like, “No, I don’t want to.”

Lindsay: Everybody’s head probably exploded, like one more thing to schedule…

Danielle: Yeah, you don’t want to.

Lindsay: Tell them why.

Danielle: So, I mean, there are so many reasons. I just actually finished recording a whole mini training that I’m offering on just this, the importance of it, why you should do it, how it’s going to help, and we have to remember, our brain is always going to operate in immediate gratification. And so, of courses, what you’re saying, those immediate fires, those feel like the most important thing. But when you think long-term about what you want in your life, and so many people end up getting to this place where it’s like, “Oh, they’re taking care of the kids or they’re taking care of their business or taking care of…” and then the kids move out and you’re left with your partner and you’re like, “Oh hey, who are you again?”

Like, you haven’t even really connected at all because those years in your life can be so crazy. And this is, when we talk about ships in the night and being roommates, and especially for those of us that have been in these long-term monogamous relationships, it can feel like that.

And so, when we just wait for it to happen, it’s not going to happen. Your brain is always going to pick the most close to you immediate fire, like you said, to put out. It’s going to pick the thing that is most painful.

And even if you have this idea of, “I really would love to connect with my partner,” and then it comes time to, you’re going to be like, “Yeah, I’d rather just sit and watch a show. I really deserve to go to bed early…”

Lindsay: I put out those five fires. It’s time to check out and go to sleep.

Danielle: Yeah, now it’s time to chill. Yeah. And so, scheduling it isn’t so you’re this regimented, like, we’ve gotten to this place and we suck so bad as a couple and now we have to schedule sex. Like, it’s not like that. I am a sex coach, Obviously, I would hope that I’ve kind of nailed it, no pun intended, when it comes to this realm. I still schedule because I want to have incredible sex.

And this is the way to do that because what you want to do is you want to prepare your brain and you want to prepare your body. And the way to do that is to know that it’s coming. And again, we think – I mean, there’s all these puns in here…

Lindsay: I was going to say again, no pun intended.

Danielle: This is what it’s like talking with me all the time. We’re always like, “And there’s another one. And there’s another one.”

Lindsay: The two of us are terrible together. I was thinking about that before we started recording. I was like, “Okay, I’m going to have to dial it in just a little bit because most of the people listening don’t know me, they’re going to think that I’ve lost my mind.” We just like to have fun and laugh pretty much all the time.

Danielle: All the time. Brains like a teenager. So, when we do this, we are preparing for it. We’re like, “This is important. This is something that I want to do.” And you get to see all the reasons that your brain doesn’t want to. So, it’s so helpful.

And I think the other thing just to remember is we give ourselves this false idea that sex is something that we shouldn’t have to schedule, that we should just want. Like, hello, when you were dating, you were totally scheduling sex every time, or some kind of intimate interaction. It’s like, “Oh, he’s coming over tonight. We’re going to go on this date. We’re going on vacation. We’re going on this beach getaway this weekend.”

You know exactly what was going to happen. You were totally preparing for it in your head. And so, when we are in this mundane everyday sort of life, it’s not like a problem that you’re scheduling. You’re doing what you used to do that really worked. Why would you not do that?

Lindsay: Yeah. And one thing that was very powerful for me, when you told me to do that, was that just what you said, not only did I notice all the reasons and all the thoughts that would come up, but I also noticed myself trying to find them. Like, “Am I tired? Maybe I don’t feel great.” Literally scanning my brain for there’s probably a reason. Let’s find it.

Danielle: All the resistances.

Lindsay: But it made me aware of it instead of – because I think that that is what happens for a lot of people. They’re just not aware. They’re like, “Okay, it’s Tuesday and my husband…” or whoever, for whoever’s listening, whoever they’re connected with is like, “Hey, want to have sex?” Does anyone say it like that? I don’t know.

Danielle: They kind of do. They kind of grab your buns and they’re like, “Hey… wink-wink, want to do this?”

Lindsay: Remember I used to say make out and you were like, “Is that what you call sex? I’m not really sure what’s happening here. But normally, in that moment, you’re not aware and you’re just like, “Oh no, I’m tired.” And it just happens so quickly that you don’t notice it. So, when you schedule it…

Danielle: You don’t notice the resistance at all.

Lindsay: But guess what. Same is true for our businesses, right? So many overlaps.

Danielle: Yeah, we just don’t make a big deal about it. You know, I think we do make more of a big deal about our businesses. Like, “Oh does this mean that I’m not really into it because I don’t feel like posting on social media?” It’s like, no, you’re dealing with resistance. Get over it.

Lindsay: One thing I get sometimes from my clients is, “I just notice I have a call scheduled or a coaching session scheduled and I don’t want to do it.” And it’s kind of the same thing. It’s like, “Okay, well notice in that moment, why? Are you just tired? Is it this one client or is it all of the clients? There’s just so much overlap. And the scheduling, just like you would with a client, the scheduling is what brings up all of the things.

Danielle: It’s everything. It’s really big.

Lindsay: So, I want you to tell them, and if you want to get a little geeky and sciencey, that’s perfect, and if not that’s fine too. But I like to play with the dichotomy of looking at things from both sides. So, there’s one side of teaching yourself to think about it like it is important and, like, yes all these fires that we’re going to put out over here but learning to also incorporate pleasure.

But how can we think of it as, like, what if it just is one of the fires? It’s like the other side of it, what, especially for an entrepreneur, why is pleasure important? What does it do for us? What happens when we incorporate more of it? Bottom line, how does it affect our business?

Danielle: Yeah, well I love that you asked that question. I love that you put it in the fire. Because the way my brain works, as you know, you’re like my best friend, but I really like to tend towards the dramatic…

Lindsay: No…

Danielle: Yeah, I know, it’s weird right?

Lindsay: We have so much in common, and that’s probably the one area where we’re quite opposite.

Danielle: Yes, so I like to tend towards the dramatic. Not with all things, but with certain things. And in my head, to get myself to do something, I really have to think like, “This is a big deal.” In a good way. It works for me. Not in this way that shoves me down. And so, when I looked at things like mindfulness and pleasure and satisfaction and presence, I really had to get to the place, like this is a life-or-death situation, dramatic yes, but also true.

And what I mean by that is life as in the type of life I want versus death, like the person that I want to be or the life that I’m creating dies a little bit every time, I don’t choose this. And for me, when I first came to pleasure and mindfulness, it wasn’t life or death like I was actually going to die. But for my health and being able to get up and out of bed, it did become a little bit more dramatic like that. For my business, I realized, the kind of business that I want, if I’m not – I think of it more as balancing my nervous system. And I’ll talk about that in a minute, like really the benefits of it. But that presence, that slowing down, being able to be a creative person, all of that stuff, I needed the pleasure. I needed the presence. I needed to slow down.

So, when it comes to our business and when we’re thinking about what we want in our business, usually most of us, we want a lot of awareness. We want focus. We want self-compassion so that we can do the big bold things out in the world and have our own back when they don’t work out.

We also want to have creativity and we want to have problem-solving. I would say those are the five things that we really want. And the way that we work on those parts of our brain, those all have associations with particular parts of our brain. We can’t be in this go-go hustle-hustle go after the thing. You literally don’t have access to your creative brain. You don’t have access to the part of your prefrontal cortex that’s involved with problem-solving. You aren’t able to settle down and have your own back and speak kindly to yourself.

There’s all of these sorts of things where it’s like, when you prioritize pleasure, when you make pleasure the goal, you are having to constantly reorient yourself and reorient your attention so that you’re resting in these different parts of the brain. And those get developed because pleasure is the goal.

If I’m looking at my schedule, and like I said, scheduling sex or scheduling connection, I know for me that I’m not going to be able to connect with my partner if I’m in a stress cycle. So now, I’m doing things in my day to help get myself out of the stress cycle. I’m helping myself slow down and take breaks during the day and being present in my body so that I can connect with my partner. But what’s so cool about it is also all the things that you’re doing so that you can have this pleasure later on or connecting with your first sip of coffee or whatever it is, is still working on all those same parts of your brain that will serve you in your business, that are going to give you that focus, that presence, that slowing down, that pulling back when it feels really hectic and triggered. This is a way.

But when we focus on pleasure as being the goal, you see it really trickle out and impact all the other parts. And then, not to mention just us, especially as women, learning how to receive and learning how to receive pleasure and feel our worthiness in that allows us learn how to receive money and also just sparks your creativity. It actually opens up the part of your brain that becomes more creative, that comes up with new ideas.

So, we could talk for like two hours about all the different parts of the brain, but those are the things I think are important, like the receptivity, the focus, the self-compassion, the slowing down, all of that is going to be impacted by prioritizing pleasure, and not to mention resilience. There’s so many.

Lindsay: And not to mention ten other things.

Danielle: And not to mention all of these things, when we’re talking about the brain, you’re actually changing the structure of your brain. Like, I’m not just blowing smoke up your ass and being like, “Oh, this is so great…” You are doing things and paying attention and focusing during your day in such a way that you are changing particular structures of your brain. And when you do that, when you make those changes at the foundational level, everything in your business changes.

It becomes so much easier to be creative and a problem-solver and focus when you need to write a post and not get super-distracted or whatever it may be.

Lindsay: What are some ways that you notice or that you your clients notice or experience, what are some signs that maybe someone does need to incorporate a little more pleasure on their calendar, in their weeks?

Danielle: Yeah, that’s a great question. I think what you were saying, all the excuses, always feeling like that frantic kind of buzzy energy, like, “I just don’t have time. I just don’t have time.” Like, waking up and not even wanting to take time. You’re just like, “I’ve got to do this. I’ve got to do this.” It’s kind of that gripping feeling in your body to just get to it, get to the next task. I think that’s a huge part. Like, “I don’t know what I should write about. I don’t know how to talk to it.” It’s not having ideas, not having – constantly going to other people maybe in your same niche or other places to, like, look for ideas to spark your creativity because you’re not knowing how to really access your own creativity.

Lindsay: Oh my gosh, that’s brilliant. You find yourself looking at other people’s websites and seeing what they’re saying because you don’t know what to say. Go have sex instead.

Danielle: Yes, totally. That is your trigger for some self-pleasure time. That needs to be part of your office hours.

Lindsay: That’s so good. Yes.

Danielle: I’m like, no, put the mouse down. Go double click a different mouse.

Lindsay: Oh my goodness.

Danielle: Yes, so I think that’s a huge part. Just seeing that and that graspy energy or when you’re being really irritable with your partner or your children, I would say that’s a really big sign that it’s time to get out. Because when we start getting irritated with everybody, that is always a sign that you’re hanging out in your sympathetic nervous system way more than you should be.

And when you completely collapse after a supposed failure or not meeting your goal, of course you’re going to have some disappointment. But when it really shuts you down, that’s another sign.

Lindsay: I have no idea what you’re talking about because I just always hit every goal, so it’s like, so easy.

Danielle: Yeah, when the bounce back isn’t there though, when we’re in the river of misery for days, then that’s a sign…

Lindsay: Or months…

Danielle: Months, a whole year, it’s fine.

Lindsay: Danielle and I are, just for everybody listening, we are so much alike. We have similar thoughts about our business, about launches, about all the things. And we love to talk a lot about it and help each other through it. So, I was being very sarcastic when I said I hit every goal. Because Danielle knows that I do not.

Danielle: Totally. I think the main thing, it’s just that go-go, how most people talk about masculine energy. It’s that constant go, the feeling of being in hustle mode, of beast mode, sort of mentality, where you’re just hard at it and go getting it and you’re almost afraid that if you slow down, that you’re going to miss the mark or not reach your goal or it’s not possible.

Lindsay: Do you have any suggestions – this is a sidenote, but I think this is something really on a lot of people’s minds right now, over the last year. So, I worked with you – when I hired you was pre-pandemic. So, this was not something that we talked about when you were my coach. I’m just curious, any tips you give your clients – and some people might not be experiencing this, but I know that there are just so many people right now who have been home with their families for now a year with little or at least less than their normal interaction with other humans outside of their house, and possibly even if they have kids – I know my experience is like, my kids have been at my house every day for the last year, pretty much.

And so, I’m just curious, even when it’s not pandemic, that’s still a thing when you have kids for sure. But what are your tips for creating those pockets of space to connect with yourself, to connect with your partner, when you’re not having a date night every Friday and the kids are at their grandparents or whatever, however people usually do it. do you have any tips for that?

Danielle: Yeah, well I think it’s different, connecting with yourself and then connecting with your partner. So, starting with just connecting with yourself, you know, with both of these, it’s always really getting your brain onboard with like why is this important?

Because it doesn’t matter as much as what we do, but getting our brain – why do we want to? Because that makes it so much easier once we do. If you’re just like, “I just should. I just need to connect with my partner. I need to connect with myself,” you know, really helping yourself see why it’s important because it doesn’t have to be a big thing. It could just be, you know, my husband and I like to call it, we’re having a meeting in the office, when it’s not really a meeting in any office. It’s just like, after putting the kids down and laying in bed and just being like, “Hey, check in, how was your day today? What were you up to?” You know, just these little points of connection.

But it’s because I genuinely want to feel connected to him. I want to know. And we don’t typically have those types of conversations when you’re just going through the motions. And so, I think that’s the main thing is just really understanding why you want to do it. Why do you want to connect with yourself? Why do you want to get back in your body? What do you want to feel good?

And then, with your partner, again, it doesn’t have to be this thing, but it has to be something. It doesn’t have to be like – some people like to get all dressed up and they have like a quote unquote pandemic date night where maybe they’re having a nice dinner together.

And you can do that. For me, it’s just having the time set aside. It’s just knowing that that’s what we’re going to do and break out of our normal pattern, to be able to connect with one another.

I think that is the key is that there is something different that we’re not doing all of the time. And the purpose is for us to hang out together. So, whether that’s playing a boardgame together or having a conversation or anything, and then also, as far as intimate time, the brain is so cool. I just have to say it.

It’s so cool. So many people are like, desire really does depend on novelty and so we think that we have to go and do these, like, spice things up. Which is fun. You can go ahead and spice things up. But you don’t realize, you can just create novelty with your brain. And that’s really something that I train my clients to do, is how to make things feel new even if it’s not new, even if it’s the same person you’ve been with for years, the same bedroom, the same song and dance on a Friday night, you know, even if it’s the same position. There’s ways that you can use the brain to make it feel fresh, and that’s really the purpose here is helping it feel fresh and exciting and new and getting your brain onboard with looking forward to that and feeling eager for it.

Lindsay: Whenever you answer these questions, it’s so funny because my brain always goes to, like, where’s the parallel in our business? And it really just reminded me, when of when I have clients who want to keep changing things about their business, like want to keep, “Well now I’m going to have this offer and then I’m going to have this other offer, and then I just get so bored, I can’t imagine just having the same offer.” And it’s kind of the same thing. You actually could convince your brain that this is a fantastic idea.

Danielle: Yeah, and it’s the same one. And that’s what we deal with when we’re in long-term monogamous relationships. It’s like, I’ve been kissing those same lips for over 18 years.

Lindsay: I said to someone the other day – this is so funny, I said, “Maybe get some new pens or something.” And it’s so funny, like, maybe get some new pillows or sheets, what do you need? Just get something. Change it up. Change one small thing. It doesn’t have to be changing everything.

Danielle: No, it doesn’t have to be changing everything. And I think that’s what some people are worried about or think about or even want or think that they want when it comes especially to sex. They’re like, “Maybe we should be more adventurous…” and if you want to, for sure. But also, just understand, you could have vanilla sex for your entire life and it can be mind-blowing and just get better and better.

Lindsay: It’s like spicy vanilla.

Danielle: Yeah.

Lindsay: It’s like chai tea or something, spicy vanilla.

Danielle: Yes, we have the chunks of vanilla beans in there.

Lindsay: So, you said something to me one time, just totally offhanded comment that really blew my mind and helped me think about connecting with my husband and just pleasure in general and making space for it differently. We can totally edit this out if you don’t want me to say this, if it’s TMI.

But you said – I don’t even remember exactly what it was, but it was something like, I asked you a question and you said, “Oh yeah, but the girls…” you have two daughters, I have two daughters. You said something like, “Oh, but the girls know that they don’t come into our bedroom before noon.” That’s not what it was, but something like that. Like, on Sundays or whatever it was. First of all, I hope that isn’t an overshare for you.

Danielle: No.

Lindsay: And you didn’t give me any details of like, what are you guys doing in there until – I’m totally making up noon. I don’t know what your actual rule is…

Danielle: It’s our nap time, and I’m doing air quotes. It’s our middle of day Sunday nap time.

Lindsay: So good. It just opened my brain to, “Oh, that is fascinating. I have other rules. I love alone time. I love to just lay in my bed and be alone. And I have no issue telling my kids, “Absolutely not, you do not come in here. The house better be burning down, it better be an emergency, otherwise go play.” And it just really opened my brain to, like, “Wait a minute, if I thought connecting with my partner, just pleasure and sex in general, whatever that looks like, hanging out, whatever that looks like, if I thought that was as important, if I took it as seriously as I took just being by myself sometimes, what would that change?

And so, it just kind of opened my mind to, like, “Wait a minute, I could create rules like that.” And it just – I just wanted to offer that for anyone listening because that was just – it was the tiniest little comment. And I don’t think we even continued the conversation after it about that thing. I just took it away, stored it away in my brain, and unpacked it later and really spent some time thinking about it.

Danielle: Yeah, I love that you brought that up because I think that – this is what happens though. You talk so much obviously on your podcast about getting our brains onboard. It’s not just taking the actions, but having the beliefs behind and what that opens up. And when you believe that connection and pleasure is a priority, what are the actions you end up taking?

That’s where those ideas came from for me because it was like, this is the life and death of my connection. This is a vitally important part of my life, just like if I have, like right now, I had that conversation with my girls. I’m recording this podcast. Unless you’re bleeding or something falls off, I don’t want to hear a peep because the way that I look at recording this podcast, it’s so important. So, do not disturb. Absolutely do not disturb.

And that is possible for us if we also look at our own, whether it’s our self-pleasure or your pleasure with your partner or connection in the same way, what if you shut the door and it says do not disturb, just like if you were on a Zoom call? Like, it’s not that hard. It’s not rocket science.

Lindsay: The red light’s coming under the door. That means don’t come in.

Danielle: I was like, were you at my house? My husband and I actually have this lighting that goes down our stairs and you can change it from your phone.

Lindsay: We usually have it in our bedroom. We haven’t put it in the new house yet, but we have the hue lights and you can turn them all kinds of colors. So, for a while I did make a joke, like if the lights were, I don’t know, I don’t think I did red, or pink, magenta, then that means you should probably come to the bedroom.

Danielle: Yeah, we have it. My husband will have the stair light lit up all red and I’ll be like, “Yeah, I’m coming up here but I’m just brushing my teeth. I saw the red light. I can see that you’re there, but not me.”

Lindsay: You yell that from the bottom of the stairs, “Just a heads up.”

Danielle: “Just a heads up… not interested.”

Lindsay: It’s a no today. Thank you. That’s so good. Okay, one last thing that I just want to say, because I realized this right before we hopped on here, I want to offer to anyone listening, if right now you’re thinking, “Oh my gosh, I have so much work to do here, I’m so far away from what they’re talking about. This is a big thing,” I just want to offer, I noticed right before we hopped on that I was like, “Oh my gosh, I have really let this slide,” or become not as much of a priority. And for one second I was like, this is terrible.

And I just want to offer, no, you can just decide today. It doesn’t have to be this big thing. It can be, like, let’s just think about it a little more. Let’s just add it to the day, to the week. It can be tiny tweaks. It doesn’t have to be everything, like a whole sex life makeover. That is not what we’re about. It doesn’t need to happen. And do you have anything to add to that?

Danielle: Yeah, I totally do. And I think that’s what I work with, with all of my clients. We fall in love with where we’re at. It’s not like we’re looking at this, “Oh my gosh, this is this huge problem to fix.” Especially if you’re in a long-term relationship. And we’re all in a long-term relationship with ourselves that we don’t have to go from nothing to full on turned on pleasured self-love affair woman. But at least planting the seed that that’s something that you want to be a part of your life, that it’s something that you do see the importance of it and you’re willing to take one small step towards it.

And you know, I think also what we talked about at the beginning, just with like courage and fear and picking your niche or doing whatever, it’s the same thing. It’s like, whether it’s our business or our pleasure or our coaching, we don’t take on any of these things thinking that we’re going to go from chapter one to chapter 26. It’s one small thing.

And I’d really like to bring in this analogy of running a marathon, even though I’m not a runner and I have no intention of running a marathon, so I don’t know where it comes from. But we’re not going to be running 26 miles tomorrow. You’re going to run down the block and then you’re going to run down two blocks and then maybe you’ll run your first mile. But just be like, that’s something that I want to do, and understanding that we’re building up our courage muscle. We’re building up our presence. We’re building up our focus. We’re building up our pleasure and our resilience. This is all part of the journey. There’s no rush at all, just one thing.

Lindsay: I love it. And I always say that awareness is the best first step. So, if you do have that awareness after this podcast, sometimes that’s all you need. It’s just a little seed panted of like – that’s what it was for me is like, over the last year I think it’s been – not just in this area but I’ve talked about this with you and I’ve actually talked about it on the podcast a little bit a couple weeks ago. But it’s kind of been this, like, blah, blahness over the last year.

And I’m coming out of it and I feel it and I feel so great. But I don’t have to add any judgment or shame, or neither does anyone listening. There’s no need to add any of that on top. It’s just like, “Oh…” it’s just something I kind of stopped focusing on for a minute, and now I can just change that, no problem.

Danielle: Exactly, it’s like no biggie. That’s what I tell my clients. It’s like, no biggie. Here we are, all you’re noticing, and this is where I’m at. It’s really good to know where you’re at, right? I’ve got to know where I’m at. No biggie.

Lindsay: Okay, is there anything else that we didn’t talk about that you want to add?

Danielle: You know, I think the one thing – and I’m sure you talk about it with your clients all the time. But also, when you’re coaching, you know, I think you and I are very similar in this way, in thinking that there’s a right way to coach and a right way to be a coach, and taking into consideration what you’re coaching on and how you’re coaching and what you’re really trying to create with your people, that that is going to make it so your coaching might look very different than maybe even a coach you work with.

You and I, we talk about this a lot because what we’re trying to create with our clients is much different than maybe what Stacey’s trying to create, coaching us in our business. And just giving, I think, yourself permission. Like, you asked so many great, amazing questions on this podcast to really help people trigger their brain into thinking, “What’s best for my clients, or what I’m creating?” but that we’re always creating that.

And I think that’s one thing I really had to learn, especially within my niche, that being harsh, being this coach that’s like – that’s never going to work with my people that already put all this pressure on themselves. And the reason I thought of all this is because of what you just said, of like, “I should…”

Lindsay: I remember that about her.

Danielle: Like oh it’s should or I must be behind or how our judgment comes in or whatever. And me coaching ways that I might see other coaches coach or with the tone that they coach in this realm, knowing that I’m already working with high-achievers and perfectionists and women that already have a hard time slowing down and giving themselves grace, that’s never going to create the kind of container that I want. And I think that as you’re developing your own coaching language, being really cognizant of what is the kind of container you’re creating and where are your own clients getting hung up? And how is your tone or approach, or how is just the kind of questions and the way that you’re showing up in this space of coaching going to impact them? And it’s going to look different for everybody because of your people and because of your niche.

Lindsay: Yes, I love that you said that. I think that that is probably what 98% of my podcasts are about in some way, right? And it is something that I learned pretty early on in my business when I notice, you know, when I had one on one clients and I started having more and more one on one clients and I just really noticed, the last thing my clients need, usually, is for me to say something like, “Well, you see that’s your thoughts creating that, right?”

Danielle: Totally, they’re already beating themselves up.

Lindsay: They’re like, “No, I’m fully aware it’s my fault. Yes.” That’s not what I meant, but you have to be aware of how do your clients interpret your questions. How do they interpret what you’re saying? Because if they’re already being so hard on themselves, the last thing they need as a coach is, like, “And, you know it’s your thoughts, right? Why would you choose to do that?” or anything that could be interpreted as, “Yep, I was already asking myself that. Thank you.”

Danielle: Yeah, let’s just push them down that shame slide a little bit further.

Lindsay: Yes, yes, yes. Is there anything else? Shall we wrap up?

Danielle: That thought made me think of listening to all your podcasts and what we’re talking about here, that made me think, you know, we’re all becoming our own voices, you know, not just publicly and in your marketing and in your copy, but really in your coaching practice, it’s allowing yourself, giving yourself that permission to be like, “My coaching’s going to look different because of this and that’s what I want and that’s okay.”

Lindsay: Yeah, and a lot of times, we attract people that are like us. So, if we know that we have those tendencies, there’s a good chance our clients do as well. And you and I could not be more alike when it comes to the things we’ve had to work through about how we talk to ourselves and how we talk to ourselves even still in our business sometimes. Which is funny that we’re always there for each other, “Let me just comfort you and be so sweet.” And then when it comes to ourselves, it’s like, “Why would you do that? This is terrible.”

Danielle: Yep, still happens.

Lindsay: Alright, tell them, how can they work with you? Where can they find you? And again, we will link everything in the show notes. You said you had a training coming up, so talk about that. Talk about how you work with your clients and where they can go if they’re interested.

Danielle: Yeah, so I have a group coaching program called Better Sex in 90 Days, which is really fabulous if I must say so myself. We’re right in the middle of one right now and it’s just so fun and I just love the women in there and all of the huge a-has and shifts that they’re making. So, that is the main way to work with me as far as coaching goes. Just check that out. That’s an online program as well as group coaching.

And then, I also have a new – it’s just like a mini training that is available and it’s kind of what we were talking about earlier, making time, getting your brain onboard, how to help just increase that desire and that pleasure, especially in your busy schedule. So, we’ll link to that. That’s just three steps type training. And that’s a course that you can just do on your own and really fun.

And on Instagram, I recently changed my handle. Always just Google Danielle Savory because I often have to change my handle, since I am a sex coach I get shadow banned often. That’s another thing…

Lindsay: You had to explain to me what that was.

Danielle: Yes, I get regular banned and shadow banned. So, I recently changed my handle, and so no wit’s @danielle.savory on Instagram. And that’s just fun because I do ridiculous reels.

Lindsay: Yes, I love your reels.

Danielle: And videos. Yeah, so that’s the other way to find me.

Lindsay: Okay, one quick question that I just thought of when you were saying that. I tell them, for anyone that’s like, “No, I would never be in a group coaching for sex…” overcome that objection right now for the people that are having it.

Danielle: Yeah, well, I mean I even had that objection before I created the group a couple of years ago. I was like, people aren’t going to want to. It’s such a private thing. And I think that really where I came to and why that is my main focus is because I actually see women making much quicker progress – not that that’s the goal. But that’s what happens being in a group.

Because what happens when you’re in another group is, number one, we all really want to be seen and be able to have a safe space to talk about this, even though it might make you feel nervous. It’s really important as part of the healing to be able for us to not feel alone. And when it comes to sex, because we don’t talk about it, because we don’t have these conversations, we feel isolated in our experience. We feel alone. We feel like we’re broken or our marriage is broken or there’s something wrong with us or our bodies aren’t working right.

But then, when you start to hear all these other women bringing up the same type of experiences, you’re like, “Oh, this isn’t a me thing. This is just a woman thing.” And your shoulders immediately relax away from your ears. You just have so much more understanding and acceptance for yourself and at the end of the group program, that’s what most of my clients say, is like, they wouldn’t have done it any other way. And it becomes their very, very favorite part of it.

And I have some women who have created their own groups afterwards and they still have get-togethers and meetings because you just fall in love with each other in this special way. So, yeah.

Lindsay: So, what you’re saying is, again, it’s the exact same thing as business.

Danielle: Yeah.

Lindsay: Different fears maybe, but I find the exact same thing in my mastermind. I think people get faster results because there’s just that normalizing of, like, wait a minute, all of you, same thing, same thoughts? No, come on.

Danielle: You all doubt yourself? You all feel like you suck? You’re never going to get there? Okay, cool, not alone. Yeah, it’s that normalizing of all of it that makes such a huge impact and difference in our own growth and being able to have our own back.

Lindsay: I love it. Thank you so much for being here today. This was so fun. And we will link up all your things so that they can come find you. And just, I appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Danielle: Thank you. This has been so fun. I’ve loved listening to this podcast and so it’s just a pleasure to be able to be on it.

Lindsay: Oh, well I love you.

Danielle: I love you too.

Lindsay: Bye.

Danielle: Bye.

—

So fun. I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation. If you want to find Danielle, I will link everything to my show notes. Isn’t she so fun? She’s so amazing. She’s such a good coach. And I just had so much fun talking to her. So, I hope you guys enjoyed it too. I will see you again next week. Goodbye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.