Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf, and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills episode 280.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey coach, I am so happy you are here today because I have such a powerful interview for you today. I am having a conversation today with my client, Kyle Miller, and we are going to talk about lots of things that will probably feel very relatable to you in one way or another. And I have no doubt there are going to be so many incredible takeaways for you from this episode, even if you don’t relate exactly to his story.

Because we are going to be talking about his incredible personal journey into coaching and all of the doubts that came up for him along the way. Plus, why his mission is so important and really how that fuels him to keep going and his experience of finding the right coaching support that makes sense for him. And I’m guessing something in one of these three topics or some of the other things that we talk about are going to be super relatable.

I do want to give a very light trigger warning before you dive into this episode. We do briefly discuss narcissistic abuse in relation to the work that Kyle does with his clients. We do not get deep into it, but I just wanted to let you know just in case. And I feel like I should also say, if you or anyone you know is experiencing abuse of any sort, you can always reach out to me, reach out to Kyle. We are both here to support you in whatever way you need support or help you find the support that you need. Now, with no further ado, let’s dive into the episode.

All right, welcome. I am so glad you’re here. Tell everybody who you are and what you do.

Kyle: I’m Kyle Miller. I coach people that have gone through narcissistic abuse. Yeah, I’ve been doing that just over three years now. It’s pretty awesome, pretty rewarding. Really love what I do.

Lindsay: Well, that is exactly one of the reasons that I asked you to be here today and that I couldn’t wait to have you on the podcast because as you know, we’ve been in contact about this a few times, but I’ve just told you, I really think this work is so important and I love that you do it. And I’m so glad now that you’re my client so I can help you get it into the world because I think the people that need it really need it.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: So maybe let’s just start there and talk a little bit about like how did you get into coaching in general, on the client side or business side?

Kyle: Yeah. So I’ve been studying personal development heavily for over 20 years, and I drove truck for 16 years, so I probably have listened to 3,000 hours plus of audiobooks and podcasts and everything, just everything I could get my hands on to figure out what, you know, looking, retrospectively, looking back, what was wrong with me and why did I have all these issues and all of that.

So at a certain point, and I think probably the initial thing that really got me looking at coaching was Dan Sullivan, strategic coach. And so listening to him and then I just couldn’t figure out how to quite bridge the gap as far as how do I go from being truck driver to then being a coach of some sort, which kind of leads into, so I was in a abusive relationship for about 14 years. And for many years, I thought that I didn’t have any empathy or compassion for anyone else.

And that was one of my beliefs that I had about myself. And luckily, one of my good friends right towards the end of the relationship said something to him about that and he said, “Well, I call F and BS on that.” And this is somebody I’ve known for almost 30 years now. And so it was, it was the right person at the right time that said the right thing to me and really then I began questioning, maybe I’m not the only problem in this relationship.

And you know, and then ended up getting divorced and all of that and in a mess and trying to get help. And somewhere in there, because I had multiple different counselors that I was talking to, and then I got into coaching, you know, getting coached, and that was way more helpful, although so much of the struggle was I basically had to coach myself through how I was going to present it to the coach or the counselor in order to get help from them so that I could work through what I was struggling with.

And that was pretty regular for everyone that I worked with. Then I basically saw the opportunity after, you know, I’d done some healing work and found out at that point too, of course, that I was working for a narcissist as well as in a relationship with one. And so got a new job and worked there and did some more healing work. And then realized that I could sell my house in order to pay for going through coach certification and get my business launched.

Lindsay: Wow.

Kyle: And so I did that. And really that was, you know, it was like, this is how I can bridge the gap of me going from truck driver to being a coach. And so, did that and then I figured that I would probably coach on entrepreneurs or high-performance athletes or something like that. And I just, I just kind of was a general life coach, you know, for most of a year.

And I had all of these little synchronicities, these people show up and they need help and they’ve gone through similar things and it was a lot of those things that kind of led me to then contemplating, which I was very much opposed to. I’m like, I don’t want to be the narcissist guy. Oh my gosh, you know, this is the last thing that I would ever think to do.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kyle: But it really, every time I came back to it, it was the first thing that really, like it really hit me in the heart. I really felt it deeply. This was not just a thing that I do, and I still feel that way. It hasn’t ever changed. I love what I do. And if I won a hundred million dollars tomorrow, I would still be doing the same thing that is, that I’m doing now.

And so that was kind of, you know, how all of that went. And I still had to fight with myself and work through what does this mean also in my life? Am I never going to have a relationship then because nobody’s going to want to date the narcissist guy? And all of those thoughts about everything.

Lindsay: Well, obviously going to have to dig into that. But I actually have a question first. I want to, something caught my attention all the way at like the beginning of what you were saying, which is when you said, “I had to,” I forget exactly how you said it, something like, “I had to teach them how to coach me,” or, “I had to teach them…”

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: “…my counselors and my,” the support that you were working with. Tell me more about that. What do you mean by that?

Kyle: Yeah, so, and I guess this ties into emotional abuse a lot. And so when we think about abuse, this is somebody hit you or they said something and that is the abuse. And a lot of times with emotional abuse, you know, there will be one thing that happened and that can be excused or explained away. And then another thing that happens along the way. So there’s half a dozen, a dozen, 10 dozen of all of those things. And not any single one of them really looks like abuse necessarily, but when you string them all together, then that is what the abuse looks like.

And so when I was coming to counseling or coaching sessions, I couldn’t just talk about the situation. I had to make sure that I packaged it together in a way that I could present it to the coach or the counselor so that they could help me work through the struggle that I was having, because most of what happened would be that I would be, not intentionally, gaslit essentially from the people that I was getting help from because I would start talking about whatever it was that happened, and they immediately come back with, “Okay, what was your part in this?”

And I’m like, I haven’t even gotten through what the whole situation of what happened was… Lindsay: Right.

Kyle. …so that you can understand what actually happened here. And so that was a huge challenge because I realized after however many times feeling horrible after leaving counseling or coaching sessions, that I need to do something different here.

And it was hurting more than it was helping. And so that was when I really, I’m like, how do I present this in a way so that they can understand what happened, so that they can understand what I’m feeling in what happened, so I can get help in working through those feelings. And so, yeah, that was really, really feeling like I had to jump through all of the hoops in order to get the help from the people that I went to for help.

Lindsay: Wow. That makes sense and, okay, now we’re just fast forward all the way to the end of your story, which is, thank goodness you do what you do because I’m assuming now people can come to you and they don’t have to do that work because you get it.

Kyle: Yeah. I get it and I think one of the biggest things with what I do is not necessarily in what I say or how I help them necessarily, and that’s important, but it’s in knowing the very nuanced subtleties in what not to say or how not to say those things to those people, which most people that haven’t gone through abuse don’t understand that.

And so they’re, you know, they’re well-meaning, they try to help, but the way that they say things or how that, you know, what they say or how they say it is very triggering to a lot of people. And I’ve probably been triggered in all of the different ways and so I know, you know, most of, probably, what not to or how not to say those things, because one of the big struggles with that is then it creates shame.

Lindsay: Mhm.

Kyle: And, you know, shame and judgment is probably the biggest things that we’re trying to work through in recovering from, uh, from abuse. And so, so really knowing how to say something to somebody so that they can understand and work through that, but also not trigger shame and judgment in them at the same time.

Lindsay: I read something the other day, or heard it. I don’t even remember now where it was. Probably on a podcast. I listen to tons of podcasts, but something about like if we could heal shame, like if we could heal shame in the world, it would just solve so many problems, like…

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: …most of the things that we, you know, are trying to solve. And I just thought that was so powerful because it really feels very true.

Kyle: Yeah. Well, when we release the shame and the judgment, we simply have experiences that we’ve gone through in our life.

Lindsay: Mhm.

Kyle: And we get to learn from those rather than carrying the emotional baggage of the shame and judgment in going through those things.

Lindsay: Yeah. Or reacting to it, right? In all the different ways that different people react to feeling that way.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: And, yeah, I just thought that was really powerful. So, the work you’re doing, as I’ve said, 1,000 times, is amazing. So, I’m grateful for that. Kyle: Thank you. I appreciate that.

Lindsay: Okay, so the next thing that stood out to me, I mean, so many things. This story is incredible, first of all. And the journey from, how do I go from here, from driving trucks to, I know I have to be a coach. Like just feeling that pull. Was that like a long journey or was it just like clear in a moment and then you figured out how to make it happen?

Kyle: I think it was something that burned in my mind for a long time because I didn’t, I’m really good as driving a truck. I mean, I’m a good truck driver and I liked it, but I just wanted something different or more or whatever. So it had been something that had been burning in my mind for a long time, but I just couldn’t ever figure out how to, you know, how to do anything different. And then after I got, I got into the best truck driving job that I’ve ever had, which was the last one, yeah.

Lindsay: Oh, of course. The universe was like, “Oh, really? Let’s see.”

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: “Here’s the best one you’ve had so far. Do you still want to leave?”

Kyle: Yeah, it was just really the best job that I ever had doing that.

Lindsay: That’s amazing.

Kyle: And yeah, the most money. And I was there for less than a year. And then I tried to work with them kind of part-time, but the way that truck driving is, is they basically want to own you completely. And, you know, maybe you get a little time off here and there, but essentially, you’re at their beck and call all the time.

So I said, “Well, I just need one day a week where I can go through this coach certification and do all of this.” And so I can, I can work the other days, I can fill in, I can do part-time, whatever you would like. But I need this time. And they were like, “Uh, no.” Actually, they didn’t even say no. They didn’t even respond to me when I asked them about it, basically.

And so then when the time came and I needed the day, they said, “Okay, well, you’re going to be working this day.” And I said, “No, I need that day.” And they said, “Well, this is, this is it.” But as far as figuring out, I think it just clicked in my mind at a certain point, oh my gosh, like I can buy another house, whatever.

But if I try to just scrape and save and wait and hope, and then at a certain point here in the next five years or however long, then I will be able to get into coaching. And I went, no, I can just sell my house and so it seemed very logical to me. And it did happen kind of in a moment. And then within a couple of months, I had my house sold and was in, going through certification. But it was a long time.

Lindsay: I love that. I love that. And let’s be clear, we are not saying that everybody should sell their house to do what they want to do.

But I do think there’s something about making big decisions like that really help you as a coach because I’ve kind of been there, not selling a house, but similar things where it’s like big decisions like that help me hold space so much for not being afraid of coaching a client and like whatever decisions they make or whatever conclusions they come to, it doesn’t scare me because I know like, yeah, as long as you’re committed, this is going to be fine. You’re going to be great.

Kyle: Yeah, I definitely agree. And for anybody out there, this is not recommended. I mean…

Lindsay: We are not suggesting everybody should do it. I just wanted to point that out because I do, and it does not have to be something that big. It doesn’t have to be selling your house. But I do think it could even just be like something that feels super vulnerable or, you know, putting yourself out there in a big way, emotionally, something that’s like, I did this thing that I thought I would never do or that most people would never do in pursuit of this thing that I want.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: And there’s something about that just like loosens the grip on, on like thinking that other people should or shouldn’t make those big leaps if they want to.

Kyle: Yeah, the big leap was, I wouldn’t change things, but boy, there are things that I would have liked to perhaps do different, which would have made the journey a little less, a little less brutal. Lindsay: Of course. Yes. I mean, I think we probably all have those if we’ve been in it, been in it for a minute. So I get that.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: Okay, so the other thing that stood out to me and that, because you just laid your story out so perfectly. So mentally I was just like, oh, ding, ding, ding, let’s touch on these things. Tell me about not wanting to be the narcissist guy.

Kyle: The narcissist guy. Yeah.

Lindsay: Tell me about that. And I have colleagues and friends and clients who I’ve heard say similar things about certain niches. And so I don’t think this is totally uncommon, but I’m curious for you like what, what was that?

Kyle: Part of it was thinking that it wasn’t as exciting as what I had initially sort of planned with entrepreneurs or high performance athletes or something like that. Because I was like, wow, that sounds super neat and exciting and, and excited to tell everybody about it. And there was almost like a level of shame in me thinking, oh, I’m going to coach on this thing that nobody really wants to talk about. And I don’t necessarily even want to talk about it, you know, at that point.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kyle: So there was, there was just lots of emotions in that. And then what is everybody going to say? And I’m, am I now also going to be attacked by these toxic people that were in my life? Is there going to be extra more hate from all of the other people that really don’t like me talking about this and exposing people that are not healthy people?

So there was a lot of thoughts around, is this going to be a security risk for me, for my family, all of those thoughts went into that because I know, you know, I’ve listened to Dr. Ramani, who is probably one of the top, and if not the top, and she receives like death threats.

So this was all in my thought process…

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kyle: …as I was thinking about, oh my gosh, is this something that I really want to do? And then one of the other main thoughts that I had too was, have I worked through, have I healed enough of the triggers and everything else in myself so that when I start talking to people about this, that I’m not going to be triggered myself…

Lindsay: Right.

Kyle: …and not be able to help them or to cause more harm. You know, there was lots of fear of causing more harm. There was the other thoughts too of I’m not a therapist. And so I’ve had and I’ve heard people talk about, you know, you have no business if you haven’t been trauma informed and, you know, and if you’re not a therapist and all of those things.

And at that point, I was working with a therapist who was the only good therapist that I think I’ve ever had. And she was amazing. And I, not to take anything away from her, but still the coaching was still more helpful than the counseling. But that was another factor, you know, getting counseling from her. And I remember when I finally really kind of was leaning in and deciding that I was going to do that. And I told her and she lit up and she said, you are going to be so good at this.

And that was, I think in a lot of ways at that point in my life, I was still looking for outside resources, confirmation, permission in a lot of ways that I could do this. And it was just, it was a culmination of so many different things that I struggled with in wanting to do this. And it just kept coming back around. And I was like, I don’t, like this is a mountain that I’m willing to die on because I know how important it is to me just because of how hard it’s been for me to work my way out of it.

Lindsay: Yeah. Wow. First, can we just like shout out to that therapist because what an amazing thing for her to say instead of, you know, you shouldn’t do that or you’re not qualified or because therapists tend to lean one way or the other, either love coaching, super supportive or in my opinion, maybe a little triggered by coaching, like you’re not qualified to do that.

And my background is in psychology and I get it. Like there is stuff going on over there that is very, you know, like there’s a lot of information that is great. And I don’t necessarily think to do what we do as coaches that we have to have all of that. So, I just, for a second, just like shout out to her. I think that’s amazing that she said that to you.

Kyle: Yeah. She’s super, super amazing, very incredibly grateful that I have her in my life. Yeah

Lindsay: Okay, so those fears that you’ve had to work through, do you feel like you’re just on the other side? Do they pop up still every once in a while? Like how are you with them now?

Kyle: Yeah, I still have some of those that pop up a little bit. And I haven’t gotten the hate. I mean, not that I haven’t gotten hate because I certainly have.

Lindsay: Okay.

Kyle: And definitely some from therapists or people who say they’re therapists online, I don’t really know, but…

Lindsay: Right. Okay.

Kyle: But I’ve had, you know, a number of those and then all of the other people and so yeah, I’ve I’ve definitely had a lot of those thoughts pop up a little bit here and there. But most of it, I think it’s two sides of it because the one side is, I don’t care and I’ll still do it anyway.

Because it’s super meaningful and I’m really striving continually to be the person that I wish that I would have had. And that’s really who I am for a lot of people. And so that part kind of went away when I first really just leaned into it and decided I’m going to do this and I don’t care what the consequences are.

And that was, that was another, another one of those feelings, even though it seemed small, it seems so and looking back it was huge because, because this was another sending it off the cliff again, just like selling my house, that I’m going to just step out and be this person. And I think that commitment when I did that, then that became my identity.

And so then I didn’t have all of those other struggles. I think it was a lot of the questions in my mind, whether or not I really wanted to really lean into it because if I go into this, then I’m going into it and that’s it. So I think that was initially a big part of the struggle with that. But then, then once I jumped into it, then it’s like, okay, this is what I do now.

And then the questions of, oh my gosh, I’m never gonna have a relationship because who’s gonna want to date a narcissist guy?

Lindsay: Yeah. Okay, hold on. Let’s talk about that. That was the last thing that stood out, which obviously connected to this. What? That’s my question. What? I have no other question than that. What do you mean by that?

Kyle: I think the initial thought was, oh my gosh, I talk about all of these toxic things and who would want to date somebody that talks about all of that stuff.

Lindsay: Interesting.

Kyle: That was the initial thought.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kyle: And that one didn’t last as long because then I got some coaching, I think, but then I also was like, oh, I’m really emotionally intelligent and available and healthy and…

Lindsay: That’s what I was thinking when you said it. I’m like, no, no, wait. But there’s the other side of that coin, which is like the opposite of that, right? Like the also you know what a healthy relationship looks like and you’re probably emotionally available and whatever, the opposite of like the fears you had, there’s also the other side of it.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. So, so that was, I mean, I came around fairly quickly on that, but that was, that was another initial, you know, crisis. And it was a couple of months in after I had already been doing this and coaching on it and putting out content and then I went, oh no. Oh. This was an unforeseen consequence. And it wasn’t really that big a deal because that one didn’t last very long until I realized that, okay, yeah, I got to find the right person who wants somebody that is healthy and emotionally available. And…

Lindsay: And I will say, kind of like when you’re calling in clients, it’s like you have client filters. I feel like there’s this implied filter here that’s like you have to be a pretty, I think confident person or confident and self-assured with who you are, person to be in a relationship with someone like you because otherwise you might be questioning like, okay, what does, is he going to think I’m a narcissist? Like what are the, you know, like that line of thinking, which to me just means you’re just going to find someone incredible.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay: I love this for you.

Kyle: Yeah. It’s been, been good. Yeah.

Lindsay: All right. So what has been kind of your biggest struggle in building your business, being a coach, since you’ve decided you’re all in?

Kyle: Yeah. There’s a fear of failure and a fear of success. And all of the emotions around those two things have been the biggest struggle for me. And I realize that I’m maybe spoiled in some ways because I’m more familiar with the technology and all the little detail things, you know, building a business, setting a business up.

Lindsay: Okay, hold on, pause. Was that just like a slight dig because I had a bunch of mic issues right before we started recording?

Kyle: No, not even a little because I go through, I mean, just because I’m familiar and I know the technology does not mean that I don’t ever have the struggles and the fights and cussing all of that stuff out because I certainly do and I have been struggling with something that I that I don’t know exactly how to fix right now also. So…

Lindsay: Yeah, of course. I had to throw that in because of course it was funny. We, there, you got to witness a real live like what the actual F is happening right now with my equipment. So, you know, there’s that. And I appreciate your patience. You helped me take some deep breaths. It was lovely. Okay, so back to what you were saying, sorry to interrupt.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: One thing I think is so interesting about your answer, and you are not the only person to have answered this in this way before, is that it’s like both. Like, well, I’m very scared of failing, but also succeeding. And I’m curious like what, how does that show up for you?

Kyle: Yeah. We’re going a little deeper now because one of the things that I realized also in the years after I got out of the toxic relationship is that I was the scapegoat my entire life. And in realizing all of that, I figured out that if I was a failure, if I was screwing up, then I would get support and love. And if I was doing okay or succeeding, then I would not, then it would really be withheld. So that all came into the picture as well with all of this because if I’m successful, does that mean that I don’t, that I no longer get love and support and all of those things?

And I think the biggest thing that I think over and over again is that most of all of building business and success and all of those things, it’s all only the emotions behind it. When you work through all of those, then everything else is, I mean, just like talking about shame and judgment. You know, shame and judgment in our lives from all the past experiences, when we remove the shame and judgment, it’s simply just experiences.

But I think so much of me going to work and doing all of the different things that I do. I mean, I had another meltdown on Monday just with getting everything set up to get business cards made. And I was like, “Oh no, then I’m going to be that much more visible.”

And so just another level of working through all of those emotions, even though it is what I want. It’s like, okay, I want to make more money, I want to be successful in business, and also that’s scary because then I’ll be visible and people will know who I am and…

Lindsay: Just making physical business cards.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: What I think is so interesting about that and the, we’ll share because I think it might be useful for someone listening, is you’re so visible. Like we literally before we started recording, you were talking about you participate in this morning show that gets live streamed all these places and you, right? Like you have lots of different ways that you’re super visible and still that reaction, that real trigger popped up when just what designing the cards, picking them up, like what was the…

Kyle: Just the kind of the whole process and then, yeah, and then and then getting them actually ordered so that I can have physical because I’ve just done digital business cards. So that was unexpected. I did not realize that I was going to have all of that garbage come up in that process.

Lindsay: Yeah, I’m really grateful that you shared that. I think it’s so good for people probably listening for some of them probably need to hear this right now because just so often my clients will say things like, oh, I can’t believe I can’t believe this is coming up again, or I totally worked through this already. And I’m like, well, that’s not totally how it works, actually.

Kyle: Well, and that’s, I drove a truck for a long time because I was hiding. And so, you know, I didn’t realize at that time that’s what was going on. And just over a year ago, I decided to start going to a mastermind. And that was terrifying because I realized, oh, you’ve been hiding behind your computer and your phone. Even though you’re all over the internet, you’re still hiding.

Lindsay: Oh, yeah.

Kyle: In your life. And so then I, you know, started getting out and going to different events and networking and things like that. And so it’s, it’s been layers of this because it wasn’t safe in my mind, in my emotions, in, you know, a lot of childhood stuff. It’s not safe for me to be out and be exposed and people to see me and to know me.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kyle: So that ties in a lot with the fear of success is, oh my gosh, then I won’t be safe. I’m safe if I can hide from everyone.

Lindsay: Right.

Kyle: And I won’t be safe if everybody knows who I am.

Lindsay: Yeah, that’s really powerful. I’m so, seriously, so grateful for you to share all of this so openly. We’re helping people right now, I think, just hearing you say these words. So what is, tell me about like the opposite then? Like how does the fear of failure, which probably people listening are, I don’t know, maybe this is an assumption, like more familiar or at least they think they are more familiar with that side of it.

Like I want to build a business and what if it doesn’t work or I can’t figure out how to make money or you know, whatever, however it comes up for them. So how does that show up for you or how does it relate maybe to this?

Kyle: Yeah, I’ve been lucky in ways because I’ve done a lot of things where I had a lot of failure. And I am just an unbelievably stubborn person.

Lindsay: I talk about this all the time. I’ve decided, I think stubborn might be one of the best qualities to have as a business owner.

Kyle: Yeah, absolutely. I think also, you know, people have gone through abusive relationships, maybe some of the absolute best or could be the best entrepreneurs because sticking with it through that.

Lindsay: Oh, okay.

Kyle: Making it through that feels kind of like building a business. I mean, it’s very different also. Lindsay: That’s an interesting observation. I’ve never considered that, but I can see what you’re, what you mean by it.

Kyle: Yeah, but I learned how to ride unicycle when I turned 21. And I ride mountain unicycle. So…

Lindsay: What?

Kyle: Yeah, that was my mountain bike for about, I don’t know, 16, 18 years. I rode a unicycle as a mountain bike.

Lindsay: Okay.

Kyle: And that was just brutal failure after failure. And I always thought that if I could translate that into other things that I wanted to do, because for whatever reason, I decided I wanted to do that. But then with trying to learn or do other things in my life, I was afraid of doing those things because I didn’t want to not be good at it. I didn’t want to fail or not succeed or look stupid or just all of those things that come up with the fear of failure. And I kind of have both sides, I think.

And I’ve observed that and I know that, you know, I have the awareness of that, but also couldn’t always figure out how to translate that. You know, yes, I spent all of this ridiculous amount of time learning how to ride a unicycle in the mountains, and also couldn’t deal with the failure of, I can’t get this set up to set up a business or I can’t figure this thing out because I’m afraid that I’m going to look stupid.

Which, I don’t know. I’m sure there’s other things that you can look more stupid than a guy riding, or trying to ride a unicycle and riding unicycle in the mountains.

Lindsay: I mean, I do wish I saw a video. I’m not going to lie. Like I’m really, so curious about this now. I just have to ask, like, what did make you want to do that? Did you see someone doing it? Was it like a…

Kyle: No.

Lindsay: You just woke up one day?

Kyle: Yeah, well, I wanted to learn to ride a unicycle. And so that was, for my 21st birthday, I was like, I want a unicycle.

Kyle: And so…

Lindsay: I love it.

Kyle: And then a friend of mine that I rode mountain bikes with, he said, “Oh, I didn’t realize this was for you because otherwise I would have told you to get this other one.” And then he showed me some videos and talked about that because I rode mountain bikes already with him.

Lindsay: Okay.

Kyle: And then I was like, wow, this is like a whole other world here. And I started riding, you know, off, as soon as I could actually ride it, then I’m going to go start riding in the mountains. Lindsay: And this is a thing that other people do also?

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: Like there are specific unicycles probably for riding on the mountain.

Kyle: Yeah, they have big tires, just like mountain bikes and yeah. So, so but it was it was a whole new world and for whatever reason, I just decided, okay, this is, this is what I want to do now and I went all in, which is probably a regular thing for me when I decide that I want to do something. Lindsay: I can relate to that.

Kyle: Yeah, but I think with so many things, like making the decision and becoming that person that now I do this thing is much harder. And I wouldn’t say that I’ve worked through what is the connection or how can I translate this to a new thing other than it’s almost like when it clicks, then that’s it. And then I’m in and there’s no going back.

Lindsay: I don’t know how you were training for this, so maybe this is not a thing, but I’m wondering if there’s a link between the unicycle being maybe more private. Like where you doing it mostly on your own when you were learning and failing?

Kyle: Yeah. There definitely is an aspect of that. I also, I know that one of the things for sure is because it’s weird, that was another way for me to keep people at a distance which would then keep me safe.

Lindsay: Okay.

Kyle: And then I wasn’t also in competition, you know, if I’m competing with other, not that I was necessarily competing, but if I’m competing with other people riding mountain bikes, then I might not be the best and then I might not be enough, which is probably another big one for probably everybody out there.

Lindsay: In some form, I probably, yes, I think so.

Kyle: So I think there was that aspect as well. So if I did something completely different, then I could be successful, you know, in whatever way that is, and also keep people kind of at a distance to keep myself safe. So, so much in being safe in, in my life.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kyle: Which I’ve had to do a lot of work on.

Lindsay: And what an amazing coach that makes you for people that need the same in whatever way. Kyle: Yeah, safety is, I mean, that’s probably the number one thing that I do is safety. Lindsay: Mhm. Okay, small pivot, although I’m sure somehow this is going to like come back and connect to what we’ve been talking about.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: So one thing that if people are listening to this in real time, coming up in a couple of weeks, I’m hosting Coach Week, which is something I’ve done every year for the past, I think three years maybe. And I’m doing some interviews to kind of like lead into that to promote it a little bit. And when I thought, like, who do I want to talk to? You were the first name that came to mind because you have come to the last couple of years.

And outside of that, I didn’t know you, you weren’t my client, you that was the only way you were in my world. And you just showed up fully. I just looked forward to you being on the calls because you were so engaged. And I’m just curious, why were you there? What did you like about it? Even though the format will be a little different this year, not exactly the same, but similar enough that I think you could speak to it.

Kyle: Yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate all of that. And I have felt the same way. I mean, since I, since I found out about you and started listening to your podcast and then coming to Coach Week was a whole another layer. And like I said, I’ve studied personal development for 20 years and I’ve been in a ton of different workshops and programs and all kinds of things.

And the amount that I have been pitched to in all of those different things. And not like I didn’t learn things from them, but it seemed usually very much that there was a little bit of information and there was a whole lot of pitching and selling and all of that going on. And it didn’t feel like there was as much care about the people as what I would like.

And what I have always felt with everything that you do, your podcast and Coach Week and everything, I have felt so unbelievably cared for always when I showed up. And that just, I really don’t have words to how meaningful that was for me. And even more so that you don’t necessarily know any of these people. And you simply show up in a way that is there to support and care for them.

And I resonate so much with that because it’s the way that I strive to be. So you, in many ways, unknowingly, I’m sure, but have been a huge inspiration to me because of the way that you show up for everyone, regardless of who they are. And that’s why I was like, I have to be there because it’s always that way. And I’ve always felt just that next level beyond of care for everyone. And that’s why everyone should be in Coach Week and anything else that you have going on, really.

Lindsay: Well, I was not prepared for that deep of an answer and I appreciate it, especially thinking about everything you just shared about your experience with counselors and coaches and whatever that feels really great for me to hear. So, thank you for that. And I will receive it.

Kyle: You’re very welcome. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to give a little bit back to you who have given so much to so many people.

Lindsay: I do feel this. I think there’s something about you, and I’ve, I’ve told you this, I love the work that you do. I think it’s super important. And I just feel like when there are coaches in my orbit that feel, it’s like this thing I can recognize because I have it and then I recognize it in other people when it’s like they feel so strongly about the work they do that they’re, that like that’s the pull, right? That’s the drive, the motivator.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: There’s something in me that’s like, I will help foster that as much as I can, as much as you’ll let me because I just think it’s so important. And like you, I feel like coaching really changed my life and very similarly also like even working with all the therapists, all the people, I think coaching was just a thing that felt so powerful for me. And I think that yeah, I can just relate.

So I’m sure that that’s part of what I always kind of notice in you showing up to all the calls and just participating so much and like I would get on before I even knew you, knew anything about you, I do have this memory of like getting on, I don’t know, one of the calls during Coach Week, I think it was the second Coach Week and there were a lot of people there, like a lot more people than the first time I ran it.

And after the second or third call because I do kind of a bunch of different sessions throughout the week, I just knew if you were there, like if I got on and saw your face, it was going to be fine because you were going to participate and ask questions and it was just going to be fine, like no matter what else.

So thank you for that because that, you know, maybe I’m wrong, but it feels to me like a lot of coaches probably have that experience where if they’re doing something that feels uncomfortable for the first time, it’s like being on a stage and like picking out one face that’s like, this is a kind face. Let me just like focus on this human. Yeah, that’s kind of what it felt like. So I appreciate you.

Kyle: You’re very welcome. I think in so many aspects of life and I’ve played music my whole life and I think about, you know, when the fans or the friends or whoever it is show up to support the band and how much that means they’re like, it’s gonna be okay because we have this person here.

I think it really is in every area of our life, but yeah, I can, I can definitely see with putting on programs and everything else that we put on as coaches, business owners, having somebody there that you’re like, okay, okay, somebody is here…

Lindsay: It’s gonna be fine.

Kyle: Yeah, that wants to be here, that’s that’s gonna, you know, gonna be helpful and wanting the information and supportive also.

Lindsay: Yeah. And probably, I don’t know that I was thinking this at the moment, but I do feel this about you now. Like I feel like if you were on, not that I think this ever happened, but if it did, you know, it’s just like a fear, I think in probably people’s minds when they do something like that, if it wasn’t going great for whatever reason, I feel like you’d help it get back on track.

Like just maybe ask a question or, you know, if you could tell I was like freaking out, you just have that energy and I think that’s probably also what makes you so incredible at the work you do with your clients and just your ability to probably hold space for them and all the messiness that they bring.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah, everything is not a big deal. I mean, it just is all fine. And I don’t, I don’t do stress in my life at all. So whatever it is, it’s all fine. And I, yeah, I definitely try to bring that everywhere I go and give that to everyone. I think the whole world would be a better place if we all got a little bit of that and gave a little bit of that as well.

Lindsay: Yeah, I definitely resonate with that except when my microphone is not working when I’m about to record a podcast and then maybe that goes out the window, but, but I was still pretty chill. I wasn’t, it wasn’t that bad.

Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. No, you were, you were super chill.

Lindsay: All right. I’m glad I asked you that. That was like, what’s the lesson here for other coaches listening from this part, what we’re talking about?

Kyle: Hmm.

Lindsay: I mean, come to Coach Week, obviously, but what’s the lesson for them to learn?

Kyle: Well, and I guess because we were just talking about all of the things going wrong or sideways, any of that, when we look back at all of the things that we’ve gone through in our lives, most of them ended up being not really that big a deal. And it’s really not easy to bring that energy into the moment when we’re going through the struggle.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kyle: But I think recognizing more of those things that have gone wrong in your life and recognizing how not really a big deal it was, even though we made a big deal out of it. And I think the more reps of that that you do, the more that you start to really catch yourself in the moment when you think that everything is going sideways and go, wait a minute, this is maybe not as big a deal. And also, even if it is a big deal, I can figure it out and it will be okay. And I think it’s helpful to have supportive people around you.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kyle: But, you know, being the supportive person for you, having your own back and recognizing that everything that you’ve gone through in your life, you made it through. And so you can make it through all of this that you’re going through now too.

Lindsay: So good. I love it. And now, exciting news, you have joined the new membership, which is really fun, so fun for me because you’ve been in my peripheral for the last couple of years in Coach Week. So I’m curious just briefly, like what, why did you decide to do that?

Kyle: I mean, I’ve wanted to be in anything that you have done. I wanted to be in and I just couldn’t make it swing financially. And I was able to do it this time. And, you know, I wanted to be a part because you’re doing it. And I think just so much help that I’ve gotten from the podcast and everything else that you’ve done, which has really helped me.

And you just help everyone to be better at being themselves. And I think being around all of the other people because I know as well that I’m like, okay, if Lindsay’s this way, then those are the people that are going to be coming here. And those are people that I want to be around. And…

Lindsay: They are some pretty great people.

Kyle: It has been so amazing to be in and just see how much just acceptance and love and support and encouragement. It’s a huge group of cheerleaders for everyone, for everything that they’re doing. And that has just been beyond what I thought that it would be because I figured that there would be support and encouragement and all, you know, conversations, all of those things. And it has been levels beyond what I would have anticipated that it would have been.

Lindsay: I love that. Thank you for sharing. I, it’s a good thing I didn’t ask you to be on here and then you were like, well, I mean, it’s okay and I, you know, whatever.

Kyle: It’s okay.

Lindsay: I’m always waiting for that to happen. You never know. I want people to be honest, I guess. Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: How about just what’s been your favorite part so far outside of that piece, what has been your favorite part so far?

Kyle: I think the group coaching and the calls have been, that’s been the biggest part for me. And I think not just, it’s wild because there’s so much encouragement and support in the group coaching calls from everyone else that’s in there.

And then in the other platform, you know, where we’re, where we’re all like there’s so much encouragement in there as well, but yeah, the calls definitely have been huge because we get, you know, I mean, we get coaching, but then also we learn so much from everyone else getting coached as well. And you can feel the support. Like there’s, there’s just love. Like everybody shows up with love on those calls.

Lindsay: I love hearing that. That’s so fun.

Kyle: And you can feel it. And so that is just so amazing because in a lot of ways, you can’t really pay for a room like that. And we can because you have put this together, but in most other, every other aspect of life, you can’t pay for that amount of love in a room. And that’s really, that is the best part, I think.

Lindsay: What has been really fun for me is that for years I’ve spent my time on Zoom closing down the chat because for a couple of reasons that I thought were great reasons. First of all, because it is, can be distracting to me and I don’t want to be distracted when I’m coaching. And I don’t want my clients to be distracted, right?

So like if I’m coaching someone and then they’re reading the chat at the same time, that can be a little distracting for all of us. But, which is not what’s happening. What’s happening instead is just the love that I see in the chat just blows my mind. I’m like, what was I doing for all of these years? So now we just have the chats open and that has been really, it’s just different and so fun for me to just watch that happen because exactly what you’re talking about, everybody in the chat stays on topic.

Also, it’s not like blowing up and going crazy. It’s just like really thoughtful comments or I actually saw this thing that you’re talking about, you know, the live you did today and it turns out your thoughts are wrong because it was incredible, you know, things like that. That I’m like, that’s so good. Like just so much encouragement which I love.

Kyle: Yeah. And, you know, kudos to you for because it takes, it takes a lot of capacity to be able to, I mean, I’m sure that I could probably do group coaching, but one on one is where I’m at. And it takes so much more to manage everything else going on. And so for you to build your capacity to where you can have the chat going and all of the other things happening.

Lindsay: Yes.

Kyle: And still hold space for everything that’s going on. I think that’s one of those things that people don’t necessarily think about with, it’s like, well, I can’t do this because of whatever reason. And I think that that’s true, but we can also always continue to build the capacity to where those things are no big deal.

Lindsay: Yeah, of course. There’s no way I could have done some of the things I’m doing now. I mean, I could have, but I would have, you know, been terrified and not able to focus and it wouldn’t have been anything close to what it is now.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: Thank you for saying that because I think it’s important for people to hear sometimes, like, no, I didn’t, five years ago, eight years ago, 10 years ago, however many years ago, I certainly wasn’t like, oh, let me just get on this call with 50 people live and be able to navigate the coaching and the chat and the, you know, whatever. Now it’s just like, yeah, I can do that. It’s fine.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: So it’s probably good for people to hear.

Kyle: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a process and a practice and capacity building. And it’s something we can all do.

Lindsay: Absolutely. Okay, I feel like we could talk for another hour, so maybe we’re going to have to do another one of these at some point. But for now, if people are listening, and I just have to say again, I know I’ve said it, but what you do is so important.

And if anybody is listening and thinks that maybe you could help them or knows someone, I’m just like doing a hard plug for you, which is rare. I don’t always do this, but actually, maybe I’ll ask you this. It feels like your niche could be fairly reliant on maybe referrals or I know a person that can help you type of thing. Does that feel true?

Kyle: It does kind of. It’s… referrals for my clients are hard because these are people that have been isolated from everyone in their life.

Lindsay: That’s why I’m thinking like, it might be really, really important for people listening.

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: Because they just learned so much from you. That maybe they could think like, if they know anyone, because I’m sure we all do, that are in these types of situations in their life, recovering from, on the other side of, maybe I’ll let you speak to it, but I, the plug I’m going to give is like maybe recommend this podcast or your website or whatever information you’re going to give here in a second for them to go to because I think that this is probably like word of mouth feels like a very good way for people to get help with things like this.

Kyle: Yeah, because it comes so much to trust and to safety. And it’s really hard to find people that, oh, I can really actually trust this person.

Lindsay: Yeah. And just from being a person on kind of the receiving end of a great referral in my 20s for something I really needed help with and I think that’s what makes me like, it’s one thing to ask your friends, hey, do you know of a good business coach, right? Or a good, do you know of someone that helps with literally almost any of the other things, right? Not that this is the only niche like this, there are certainly others, but it’s very different to say, do you know of any coaches or therapists that work with narcissistic abuse?

Kyle: Yeah.

Lindsay: Survivors or, you know, whatever. Like that’s probably not a conversation most people are having every day.

Kyle: Yeah, I would love for that to be more of a conversation that people are having, but it’s still…

Lindsay: Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Kyle: It’s not an easy conversation, but yeah. I think referrals is definitely the few that I’ve gotten, that’s why they came to talk to me is from somebody else. And it gave them enough level of trust that they could have a conversation with me because I feel that’s for most people, like even getting comfortable enough to just simply have a conversation with me and I do free consultations for everybody.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Kyle: So getting to that point where they even will have a conversation takes a lot because it’s, it’s super vulnerable, super uncomfortable. And I hate to say that it should be. I mean, in some ways it should be. I wish it wasn’t as hard.

Lindsay: Totally.

Kyle: Because I think this is much more conversation that all of us need to have more.

Lindsay: Agreed.

Kyle: But yeah, having that level of emotional safety and trust, it’s so essential and it’s, it is the most important thing for me is for everyone to feel safe.

Lindsay: All right. Well, hopefully they’ll hear that here. They’ll hear it in your voice. They’ll hear the way you’re talking about it, because I definitely can. So now tell them where can they find you, where do you want to send people if they either just want to check you out, follow you, do all the things, or if maybe they are looking for a coach or they know someone who might be looking for a coach.

Kyle: Yeah. KyleMillerCoaching.com is my website and then I am on all of the social media at Kyle Miller Coaching.

Lindsay: Literally all of the things. I’m pretty sure, even ones I’ve not heard of, Rumble or something, I don’t even know what that means.

Kyle: I mean, I’m sure there are places that I’m missing. I mean, I have Twitter, X, whatever, but I’m not really on there, but I still have all of them and it’s at Kyle Miller Coaching. You should be able to find me anywhere, everywhere.

Don’t ever feel afraid to reach out and ask a question even if you don’t want to work with me.

Lindsay: I love that.

Kyle: You know, if you’re looking for, you know, support in whatever way, if you want a counselor, you can always reach out and I’m happy to help in any way that I can because my mission really is for no one to ever feel alone or hopeless.

Lindsay: That’s a pretty powerful mission. I think we’ll just end there. Thank you so much for doing this, for being here today. I’m so grateful.

Kyle: Thank you so much for having me on.

Lindsay: I hope that you thoroughly enjoyed that conversation and Kyle’s vulnerability. I know I did. I had so much fun recording this with him. And if you would love to join us this year for Coach Week, that is happening beginning March 16th, and I will put the link in the show notes so you can register today, and I will see you there.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.