Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills episode 157. To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey coach, you are in for such a treat today. I know I say this every time when I do an interview, but this one feels extra special. We had such a fun time. Today I talked to my friend, my colleague and my client, Teresa Haag, about her experience in the Advanced Certification in Coaching Mastery, which is the advanced offer that I have. And I wanted to have her on because through the month of November I will be selling the certification for next year, we start in February.

And so all through November I’ll be selling the certification. And I wanted to just have a couple of people on and talk to them about their experience in the certification and if they would recommend it and why they would recommend it. And, of course, we also talk about so many other things: her coaching business, her art business, because Teresa is an incredible artist and she is also a coach for artists.

And I really loved working with her and really loved helping her figure out her special way to combine those two things. And I just know you’re going to be so inspired by everything that she shares.

So, no further ado, here is Teresa.

Lindsay: Hello, I am so happy to have you here today. Tell everyone who you are and what you do.

Teresa: So my name is Teresa Haag, and I am an artist and I coach artists.

Lindsay: I love it. That’s like the most simple intro I feel like anyone has ever given. I’m an artist and I coach artists. So first, let’s just dig in a little bit to the art piece of what you do. I’m just so curious, how did you get into art? How did you get started in the industry? And just, I don’t know, whatever you want to share around that.

Teresa: Yeah, I love it. I basically think I’ve identified as an artist my entire life. I can’t even remember a time that I wasn’t making art, creating art, thinking about art. And I went and pursued art all through high school. I like lived in my high school art room. And I always thought that I would end up as a professional artist, it was like how I saw my life unfolding.

And then when I got to college I took some art courses and realized like, oh, and also how am I going to pay for my life? I have no idea what this actually means. I mean, I love making that art, but I just didn’t see how it would pay my bills. So I ended up working for a company and I sort of started in their call center.

And I spent about a decade with them working my way up the ranks with them and making my artwork part-time until I just hit a tipping point when I was just really unhappy in my career, knowing that I wanted to pursue art. But then I was making a really good living doing that job for them. And it really just boiled down to my happiness level eventually tipping and I was like, okay, we have to figure this out. We have to try and make this happen.

And so in 2011 I quit my job and it’s sort of been an amazing experience ever since.

Lindsay: So since 2011 did you immediately go all in on art?

Teresa: Well, kind of.

Lindsay: Did you know you could sell it and make money doing it? Or were you like, I don’t know, I’m just an artist and I’m going to figure this out?

Teresa: I think I had an inherent belief that I could figure anything out. I think I was just born with that gene. And also I just had my second son. So he was four months old, and my other son was 16 months old. And we were looking at the daycare costs and we were like, okay, so if there was ever going to be a good time for me to quit, this is it.

So it was a little bit crazy because I was balancing for the first time being a stay at home mom with two little infants, and with this deep desire to make my art. So it was a challenge. It was trying to figure out how I could fit it all in. And I just kept saying like, all I need to do is make enough money with my artwork so that I don’t have to go back and find a job when my kids go to preschool.

So I kind of gave myself that space to figure that out. I didn’t exactly know how yet I was going to do it, but I just started making artwork when they were sleeping and slowly but surely figured it out.

Lindsay: I love that. That reminds me so much of my story. It’s very similar. I follow you on Instagram, obviously, and I’m obsessed with your art, especially the giant murals that you paint are just – I don’t know if you’ve done a lot, but the one recently, I just get chills. I’ve literally gone to find it. I don’t know if it’s on Instagram or on Facebook, but I saw it somewhere and just the other day I was like, I want to look at this thing again. And I went back and found it.

But for anyone listening who doesn’t follow you and has no idea what kind of artwork you do, how would you describe yourself as an artist? Like what do you do as an artist?

Teresa: Yeah, so I describe myself as like a very gritty, urban landscape painter. I love painting just busy city streets and lots of energy, back alleys, like rundown row homes. All the things that you don’t really pay attention to when you’re out and about in the world, I’m really drawn to painting.

And it’s not unnecessarily bringing beauty to it, but it’s like honoring it and just looking at it with a new set of eyes. And seeing it in a way that really makes you, the viewer, think like, oh, I can open my eyes and see what’s around me in a little bit of a different way than I thought I could.

Lindsay: Yeah, I will say that’s exactly how I feel when I look at your artwork because you paint, I think, spaces that are like, near you, right? Like where you live.

Teresa: Yeah, most often. Like it’s wherever I’m traveled is what I paint.

Lindsay: Okay. And so when I look at them, sometimes first, when I very first went to look at your, I think it was on Instagram maybe. I was like, oh, these must be photographs that she’s using to paint, to like copy or something. And then I was like, wait, these are not photographs. This is the art. What is happening? These are so incredible.

And I love that you said not necessarily bringing beauty to it, but to me it definitely brings beauty to it, just the honoring of the space. The spaces that you paint, they’re so incredible. I’m just going to gush over it for a long time.

Teresa: I appreciate that very much. Yeah, it’s been really interesting letting the work that’s inside of me reconcile with me letting it be born into the world, because it’s not your typical things that people paint. It’s not like, oh, those rolling landscapes or the beautiful still lifes. It is very much not those things.

And so it’s interesting, and we’ll probably talk about it on our call today, but just letting that be the thing that I allow myself to create has been a really interesting process for me. Lindsay: Well, you were clearly meant to do it because your artwork is amazing and I can’t get enough.

So let’s move into coaching. At what point or like how did coaching come up?

Teresa: Yeah, so in 2012, so a year after I left my job, I decided to create like a holiday veil with my artwork of these little tiny miniature paintings. And I made a bunch of them and so each day in December I decided to share a piece.

And it took off like crazy, people loved it. And over the course of the next couple years my business started to take off. That particular show started to take off. Lots of people were collecting my work. And then I just started bringing in other artists into this little circle, where we started working together and sharing each other’s work and collaborating and helping each other build our businesses.

And over time, over the next few years, more and more artists came in and more and more artists started asking me for help in the business realm, which was so interesting. Because I had been dismissive of my time in corporate, even though I was a sales rep and I was working as a sales trainer and I had all these skills. I completely blocked that out and I was like, none of that matters, I’m an artist now.

But seeing that come into play in helping me build my business and then ultimately helping other artists build their businesses was really helpful. But I knew that I needed some additional resources to help the artists. I could tell them what I did, which was helpful. But I could see that it wasn’t creating the same results for them that I was getting. I always just kept hitting a lot of walls because it was just like do this, do that.

And I just, on happenstance, was listening to an Amy Porterfield podcast one time and she mentioned Corinne Crabtree. And so that introduced me to the world of coaching. And I was like, it didn’t take long for me to put those two worlds together. I was like I need this. I need this coaching, I need to understand how this works.

Lindsay: For yourself or for – Like you wanted the coaching for yourself or did you know at that point that you were like, oh, this is part of my working with artists?

Teresa: Oh, that’s such an interesting question. No, it was actually at first for me. And seeing the world through the lens of coaching was like – I mean, I can almost remember the very moment when I realized that your thoughts create your feelings, which drive your actions. I was like, what in the world is going on? It’s like a before and after experience.

And I was applying it to weight loss for myself at the time, and saw just how it helped me with my weight loss and then it just helped me navigate – Oh my gosh, it’s so silly, but it’s like when people leave their socks on the living room floor that I wasn’t making that mean anything other than like, oh, there are socks on the floor.

Lindsay: I remember those tiny little moments too. The silliest things where it’s like, wait socks on the floor in the middle of the living room doesn’t have to mean this person disrespects me and just whatever. You know, all the things that we like to pile onto one little very neutral situation.

Teresa: That was exactly it. I was like, my husband doesn’t love me because he leaves his socks in the middle of the floor. It was so dramatic. And then I was like, oh, also, it’s not dramatic and I can just reach down and pick them up and take care of this right now and everything is great.

Lindsay: Yep, or leave them and someone will pick them up later.

Teresa: Or leave them, yeah. And that’s fine, too.

Lindsay: I’ve tried both. It turns out other people’s behavior still doesn’t change, but it does make me feel better to decide what I want to do about the socks.

Teresa: Totally, yes. Exactly. Yeah, so I started seeing how that was helpful in lots of different areas of my life. And somewhere along the way, I don’t remember when, but I just was like, oh, this is actually what I need in order to help my artists in their businesses. It’ll be way more effective, I can help them with their mindset and their business strategies than just telling them like, this is what I did.

So I decided to send myself and get certified. And that was back in 2020. And now we’re here.

Lindsay: Now we’re here. Okay, so when you think about adding the coaching piece, when you’re like, okay, I’m working with these artists. Now I have these tools that he didn’t have before, what would you say – I don’t know if you’ll even be able to pinpoint it, but I’m curious if you can say like what are the biggest benefits of that, like adding that in for the clients that you’re working with?

Teresa: Yeah, well, I think the biggest benefit that I have seen is having them be able to get out of the hustle of running an art business. There’s a lot of trying to keep up with deadlines, manage shows, make the work, make the work good, not be rushing through. And all the while seeking external validation that they’re on the right track and making the right kind of work. Like trying to prove that their work is valuable.

So there’s this constant patching up of like making the sale mean that they’re a good artist. And I think I was in that cycle for a really long time. And once I learned to break that for myself, it really got me out of that grind hustle that I was just never catching up and I was just driving myself into the ground on a constant basis.

And when I’m able to show other artists that they don’t need external sales to validate that what they’re creating in the world is important and valuable, that just shifts everything for them. So I think that’s the most valuable part of all.

Lindsay: And do you work with any kind of artists or just specific types of artists? Like specific types of art that they’re making or just anyone?

Teresa: I work primarily with just visual artists, but whether they’re a painter or sculptor, they draw. I mean, any of that you can find in the groups of artists that I work with.

Lindsay: Okay, I love it. One of my favorite things, and so you were in my certification, my Advanced Certification in Coaching Mastery. And one of my favorite things watching you in the group was, and I know we chatted for a second before we started this recording and I did not say this. I forgot, actually. So you’re going to be like, “Wait, this is not what you said before we started recording.”

But one of my favorite things was watching you plan and execute your live event.

Teresa: Yes.

Lindsay: Was it the first time? It was the first time, I think, that you’d done it, right?

Teresa: Yeah, it sure was.

Lindsay: And that was some of the work that you did in the group, was like just planning that all, figuring it out. So let’s just talk about that for a second because you turned into a different person. You just like lit up. You were like, this is where it’s at, this is what I want to do. We had so much fun. What do you think is the difference between when you infused that live portion into your coaching?

Teresa: You were right in all of what you said. The live portion was something that I didn’t even know how much I needed. And then when we got to the live in Miami as part of the mastermind or the certification with you, I could see so clearly, watching you create your live experience.

I didn’t run mine exactly the same way as yours, but watching the impact that it had on me. And then so clearly being able to see how much having my artists be live in a space where we can see each other’s faces and play off each other and connect so deeply, it was so clear that even before I left Miami, I had already sent out the invitations. Like I planned everything, sent out the emails, and it was like a done deal before I even flew home.

Lindsay: Yes. I remember you telling me at the live event, like I think on the last day maybe, you were like, “Oh, I just did this thing. And I decided that I -” And I was like, wait, what? This isn’t even what you’re getting, like it wasn’t anything you brought for coaching in the three days that we were together, or at least if you did, I don’t remember it. It was just like I had this shift while I was here, decided I needed to do this and just implemented it immediately.

Teresa: Yes.

Lindsay: And it was, as a coach, so fun to watch you do that because you were so excited.

Teresa: Yeah. I’m still excited. I love my live events. I love, we call them artist retreats and they are the most fun. They are so transformative and there is nothing like being able to be in the same room with somebody and sitting down next to them and just being able to take all the energy in and give all the energy.

I mean, I coach on Zoom all the time and that’s great. But there’s just something amazing about being in the room.

Lindsay: There’s just something different about it, right? I think it changes so many things for the client and for the coach. I know that might not be everyone’s cup of tea. Some people listening right now might be like, ugh, like running a live thing. But for me, I love being around my clients in person.

There’s just something so powerful about doing the work together in a kind of vulnerable space in a room together. I think it just adds another layer of kind of closeness and vulnerability when you’re actually in person. You can’t turn off your camera or mute yourself or whatever. Like it’s just all there. Do you think that’s the experience that your clients had as well?

Teresa: Yeah, for sure. My clients, they’re the cutest things ever. They bonded during the live and they made these special things that they’d mail to each other to have at their shows so they can all be connected. So these little rituals.

Lindsay: Oh my gosh.

Teresa: Yeah.

Lindsay: Stop, that’s amazing.

Teresa: I know, they’re the cutest. My first round was five, they all have renewed for the second round. So they’re all going to be together again.

Lindsay: I did not know this. I have chills right now, I’m so excited. Can I be an artist? Do I have to submit work before I come or can I just show up and pretend or what?

Teresa: You can be an artist. I know that there’s some art in there because I think your daughter also is an artist. So we will just –

Lindsay: I used to have an Etsy shop. Well, I didn’t make a lot of money. I brought a lot of money in, I didn’t make it because I didn’t know how to run a business. I needed you to show me what to do.

Teresa: I am so glad you brought it up because, I mean, it was capes, right?

Lindsay: Yep, dinosaur capes.

Teresa: I’m sure all of your coaches that listen to you already know about this, but if you don’t, you have to go check out these capes. They’re amazing.

Lindsay: I loved it. But really this was before I knew anything about coaching. I only say this because I’m curious, this probably comes up for your clients and maybe even for you before you kind of knew what you were doing, like when you were first getting into it. But I loved making them so much until at some point the demand was so high that that’s all I was doing. And I couldn’t be outside of it besides like I have to make 25 capes today. Great, let’s just go.

And I didn’t know how to run a business, like at all. So I was working like crazy with two kids at home, just like you. But making no money. I’m curious if that comes up. Like do you see your artists doing that?

Teresa: Yeah, that’s like one of the biggest things we coach on is that. In the beginning you’re just trying to make a sale. Like get one collector to buy a piece of artwork so you can have that experience. But after you get over that, like learning how to sell your art to collectors, then all of a sudden collectors are wanting to buy. And then you run into the same thing where there’s only one of you who can do what you do. It’s not like you can hire a team to make the artwork.

So eventually you do hit this wall where you can’t keep up. There’s just too many people wanting work from you. And you have to learn different skills. You have to learn either how to say no, how to create boundaries, how to raise your prices in an effective way that makes sense strategically for your business so that you can filter out and keep that time for you to be in the studio still magical.

It’s like the sacred time that you’re making art is the whole reason why you open up a business to sell your work. And that can easily become difficult when you have all these people needing things from you. So just teaching my artists how to protect that time for themselves is really important.

Lindsay: Yeah, I’m sure that’s huge. Even as you’re talking it reminds me, just for coaches listening, it kind of reminds me a little bit of I think sometimes people fall into that when they’re even building a coaching business where they’re like, I got into it because I love helping people. I love coaching. And I just wasn’t prepared for the business side of it, like I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m running a business, right? Which I think some coaches don’t think about that before they get into it.

Teresa: Totally. Yeah, because we didn’t become coaches to be a business person. We didn’t become artists to be a business person. We became coaches because we want to help people. We became artists because we have things that we want to share with the world.

And we have this other thing that if we want to do those things in a big way, like make big impacts, whether it’s in coaching or with your artwork, then you need to have funding and time and resources so that you can do all those things that you want to do.

Lindsay: And time, right, to just like continue to love what you do instead of just forcing yourself to go wherever you make your art to go and just like pump it out as quickly as possible.

Teresa: Totally. Yeah, I love it.

Lindsay: Okay, so how do you work with your clients? I know you have the group, and that’s what the live event – Was the live event like standalone or that is with your group, right?

Teresa: Yeah, so that’s my mastermind. It starts with a three day live and then we do six months of coaching after that. That’s for artists who have, like they’re more advanced in they’re selling. They have goals where they want to be making six figures or they want to be creating shows that sell out. That’s the group that I’m working with there.

And then I also have a program called The Art Room that is reminiscent of my time in my high school art room.

Lindsay: That’s amazing.

Teresa: Because I wanted to create a space for artists to just know they can come hang out. There’s no pressure, we’re going to teach you how to sell your work and we’re going to teach you really all the fundamentals of making art. And everything is on the table, there’s no judgment. There’s like a place at the table for you to sit and you can come hang out with us anytime. So that’s my program.

Lindsay: It’s kind of like The Coach Lab.

Teresa: Yeah, exactly. It’s very similar. It’s got a similar vibe, there’s just no judgment and everyone is really great and supportive there.

Lindsay: I just love spaces like that, because I think about this a lot with The Coach Lab, I’m like how much would I have given to have that space when I was, especially a newer coach, just to have somewhere to go after a call to be like, I don’t know what happened but that was not a great call. Can someone help me unpack it?

And I’m sure the same is true with an artist. Just like, I don’t know, this is not turning out how I thought it was going to turn out and now, like trying to keep themselves out of the like, and now I’m a terrible artist or I don’t believe that I can do what I want to do.

Teresa: Yeah, it’s like failed artwork or getting rejected from shows or zeroing at a show. Those are some of the big things that they’ll bring. Or just like it’s rained every weekend this summer, which up here in the northeast it’s been a really hard year for artists doing art shows because every weekend has been rainy. And they’re like, I don’t know how I’m going to make money. What am I going to do?

So, yeah, we support them in all of those things.

Lindsay: I love it. Okay, so you’re an artist, then you added in coaching. Now you have a mastermind. You’re coaching groups of artists all at the same time. Do you feel, like is this where you’re staying for a minute? Is there something else? I hadn’t planned to ask you this, but I’m just curious, because you and I haven’t talked in a minute. But is there anything else that you’re like, “I can’t wait to create this?” Or are we just like holding?

Teresa: Always.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Teresa: Always, always. This is the problem, Lindsay. I’m just like, I have an idea and I’m just like, let’s do it, which I demonstrated in your mastermind and at the live. But I think that was like a well-executed idea and plan and I love all my reasons for doing it so quickly. But I also have to, because I’m an artist and because my brain loves to create new things, I have to be really careful because I always have the ideas.

And while I do, like I can see other things that I want to add in, I’ve just decided we’re in a holding pattern. We’re just going to make these the two best spaces for artists to hang out. So we’re not adding anything new. We’re just going to continue to grow them and make them better and better.

Lindsay: Yeah, sometimes being in the holding is one of the most uncomfortable parts, I think. When you have a brain, especially, that’s like, “Oh, and I have this idea and I have this idea.” Even within The Coach Lab, actually, as we’re recording this it’s not out yet but I recorded an episode about the biggest things I’ve learned about The Coach Lab, or since I launched The Coach Lab. Kind of my biggest takeaways or surprising things. But the number one thing is the constant feeling of like, I have to create more. I want to add things. I want to do this.

I mean, it is constant. It’s just like, okay, it’s just there. We’re just going to allow it. It’s like allowing an urge, we’re just going to allow it. So I feel you on that.

Teresa: I know. Even when I post a workshop, I’m like I know exactly what I can do again to make this even better, and I’m going to do it next week. And I’m like, nope. And also, this is fine, we can just practice here for a little while.

Lindsay: Over the summer I was teaching a workshop, like through Facebook ads, right? And then clients were coming in and whatever. People were coming from the ad, coming to this masterclass I was teaching, and I had a whole plan to do the exact same one, three months in a row for a very specific reason because I was working on other things, right?

Like, the learning for me at the time wasn’t like, can I do a new one each time? It was learning other things. That was so uncomfortable. It was physically painful to just do the same one again.

Teresa: Yeah, I’m feeling it right now. You just saying it I’m like, oh no, there’s another thing that I have to do.

Lindsay: Right? It’s awful. It’s so funny, some people listening might be the opposite, which is totally fine. I think that there’s goodness either way, right? And it’s always like, okay, what’s your learning? For me it is constraint and just like, nope, we’re staying right here. We’re following the plan.

Teresa: Yeah, and I definitely need to subscribe to that a little bit more, for sure. Lindsay: Sometimes I go off the rails of it and I’m like, “Oh, I forgot about the plan. Okay, let’s come back.” But sometimes it’s easier than others.

Okay, what do you – So when you were in the certification, when this comes out I’m actually selling it for all of November. So I’ll be enrolling clients into the certification for the whole month of November. So this will be, I think this is coming out the first, maybe the first week or even right before November.

So for anyone that’s listening that’s like, “Okay, tell me more about this certification.” They’ve heard me talk about it, but do you care if I ask you a couple of questions about your experience?

Teresa: Not at all. Not at all.

Lindsay: So, first, I’m curious why you decided to join. Do you remember what your thoughts were at the time?

Teresa: Yeah, so I had gone through Coaching Masters with you and I was in the room with you when you were considering doing the certification. And as soon as you brought up the idea of it I was like, “Oh my gosh, I need to do this. This sounds amazing. This is exactly the work I need to be doing.” Because I had spent a lot of time working on my coaching skills, going through the whole process that you teach in Coaching Masters.

And then having the idea of this certification was just the right place at the right time for me because of the way you were structuring it with the project-based. And I was like, ah. It was such a creative outlet too. I was like, “Yes, I need to work on this project. I need the accountability.” And just to be able to bring something to life within a container that you were coaching, I was like, “Yep, let’s do it.” No questions.

Lindsay: I love that. So can we talk about your project for a second?

Teresa: Yes.

Lindsay: Because I think this can be really interesting for people to hear. So I have been, I’m a Master Certified Coach, I’ve been certified in spaces kind of similar to what I teach, except not at all like what I teach. And one thing that we had to do was pick a project, but it was kind of picked for us. And it was kind of like, here’s your project. And it was just like you have to get it done.

And so I knew, I was like I want this space – I loved the idea of a project. And that’s kind of where I stole the idea from, is like I want there to be a project. But for me, the point of it isn’t that we just get it done and get the gold stars for getting it done. And like congratulations, you did it. It’s really the learning along the way.

So what was your project initially? I’ll let you say it.

Teresa: Yes. So initially I was like, I’m going to do a podcast, finally. I’ve been wanting to do it forever. And I’ve been dragging my feet on it. So this is it, I’m doing the podcast.

Lindsay: And there were a couple other people who were also doing podcasts. And that was like, okay, great, there’s like a podcast group, a few of you. And then what happened?

Teresa: All the reasons why I was dragging my feet on the podcast came up immediately at our live. And I realized very quickly that it wasn’t just me needing accountability to create the podcast.

The reason I wasn’t making the podcast is because of all of my thoughts about myself. And so I didn’t recognize at the live that I was going to change my project. Almost the entire time we were together I was like, “Yeah, and also, I’m still launching my podcast eventually, once I work through all this stuff.”

Lindsay: I remember.

Teresa: But the entire time together, I was just working on my own self-love, self-acceptance, which was so surprising to me. But that ended up turning into my project.

Lindsay: Okay, so I don’t think I knew fully that that was happening until you eventually told me. But what I learned about you when you turned in your project and you turned in, because I had everyone just kind of turn in, if they created something maybe turn that in or just create like a little bit of a write up about what you did and what you learned.

And yours is the only one that I read and cried while I was reading what you did. Tell me, like what happened? Why did it feel so important to you to do that work?

Teresa: Well, I knew that it was like the key to everything, I knew that there was never going to be a time that I could effortlessly launch a podcast without all the drama unless I stopped telling myself that I didn’t know what I was doing and that I was bad at this and that people weren’t going to want to listen to what I had to say.

And it was so interesting, because I don’t operate in life like an Eeyore that’s like, “Oh, I can’t function and I don’t know what I’m doing.” But it was just this like subtext through everything on repeat that I just couldn’t shake. I remember, like on our very first call, before we went to the live we had a couple of calls.

And I remember this was the shift and it happened then. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is the work,” even though I didn’t accept it in that moment. It was when you were talking about belonging. When you were talking about the group and you were like, this is a place where everybody belongs. And in case you struggle with belonging, and lots of people do.

And then you said, I have like the opposite. I just believe that everybody loves me. And you said it not in a bragging way. You’re just like, I just have this innate belief that I fit in and people just like to be around me. And it was like this waking up moment for me. I was like, wait, it’s possible to believe this about yourself? Like how? I don’t understand how that’s even a thing. And so that kind of set the stage for me.

And when we got to the live, I just saw so clearly how being even in this space with the most wonderful people, I just kept thinking like, “Oh, I’m not as good as them. I’m not as good of a coach as them. I’m not as cool as them. I can’t hang with them.” It was just this constant thing.

Outwardly, though, I’m like a very outgoing person and I get along with people. But underneath the whole thing, this is what I’m thinking and feeling, which gets in the way of me doing big things like making a podcast and saying what I think and feel to the world. At least it feels very big and scary to me.

So I just realized that the best work that I could possibly do was to figure this out for myself, with the help of you and the most amazing coaches in the world.

Lindsay: Here’s how I know – As you were saying that, I think here’s one reason that it really affected me when I was reading what you submitted, is that I related a lot to it. Not from the perspective necessarily of belonging in the same way that you were talking about it. But I also am a person who is outwardly, like even when I’m working through some deep stuff, a lot of times you won’t recognize it on the outside.

So like every time I’ve been with you, and full disclosure, you and I are friends. I see you in other spaces, not just in my spaces and I always love being around you. And when I heard you talking about this, and then when I read what you submitted, I think I was just blown away by like, that’s not my experience of you.

And I think that makes it even more important, like deeper work because sometimes if I might recognize it in people, right? And I might know like, oh, some work that this person might have to do in this space is get a little more comfortable being vulnerable or really bringing the thing. Like if they’re going to get a lot out of it, they have to really bring the things that they need help with and ask for help.

And so sometimes I can see it. But with you I just didn’t see it at all. And I think I was just very surprised by it.

Teresa: Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think a lot of times when we are working on self-acceptance work it comes back to things like in childhood and trauma that you’ve had and things like that. So I got really good at being outwardly one way, and inwardly another way. And also that served me really well when I needed it to serve me.

But I think coming into your container, having gone through the other containers with you, I just felt ready, I think, for the first time – I’m going to get emotional. I just felt ready to shed that part of me. Like I didn’t feel like I needed it anymore. And I’m so grateful for the time together and the six months to be able to work through some really hard, heavy things from lots of different angles.

It wasn’t just like, come at it from this. It was coaching, it was at the live, it was in the workshops that we were able to kind of 360 the work. And that was really helpful.

Lindsay: Yeah, and what you submitted, it was like, and I got peer coaching and it walked me through every step of like, this is how I worked through it and here are the changes. And it truly blew me away. Like it’s such a good example of someone showing up to get what they came for. Even if it wasn’t what you thought you needed when you very first joined.

Teresa: Not even a little bit, yeah.

Lindsay: And I do think you still got, I’m going to say in quotes, the things that you thought you were coming for. It just ended up, in my experience of watching you, I think it just ended up being like, oh, also, there’s this deep work that I’m going to do while I’m here, because you felt I think safe maybe, doing it in that space.

Teresa: Yeah, I’m trying to think of a good metaphor. But it’s like thinking that you’re going to show up – Like thinking about the podcast. I’m like, okay, I am going to create this podcast and it’s going to be great for my business. And then to come in and then be like, oh, what I’m leaving with is the idea that I’m amazing and that I have so much to offer this world. And I can just be myself and people can take me or leave me, and that’s okay.

I feel like I have won all the lotteries and that there’s nothing that can stop me in whatever it is that I want to create because I’m leaving with that belief in myself, for the first time. So yeah.

Lindsay: Now you’re going to make me cry. This just feels so special just to hear you say that and because I know, you know, we’ve talked – Now that I know this about you, we’ve talked through it just a little bit here and there. And I’m just so excited for you to see what you create after doing this work.

Teresa: I am too.

Lindsay: It’s going to be amazing.

Teresa: I know, I can’t wait. I can’t wait to see what comes out of all this.

Lindsay: Okay, so what else? What else would you share? So if anyone is listening – That was like the main thing that stood out to me just because I was so touched by your submission. And what else? Is there anything else that you would say, like if anyone’s considering joining the certification, here are things they should know? That’s a very broad question, I’ll just put you on the spot.

Teresa: I know. I’m like, oh, there’s so much. Yeah, I think that the biggest takeaways that I have, I mean, we’ve talked about a lot of them. But I think if it was me talking to somebody who’s interested or thinking about joining, it would just be there’s no reason not to. You get to make it whatever you want to make it, whatever you’re working on.

I think one of the things that you really support is the idea of letting people be themselves. Not only that, but like how can you go all in on that as well? Like knowing who it is, who you are, what you want. And then like how do you turn the dial up on that?

And it’s different for everyone. And you do such an amazing job pulling that out of people. And so I can’t think of a reason why somebody wouldn’t want to do that for themselves, going through that process with you and creating bonds with the people who are all going through the same thing. It really is a life-changing experience.

And just do it. Like don’t even question it.

Lindsay: I love it. I love that you said that. I’ll be honest, I was deep in email writing today before we were recording because I have this launch coming up. As we’re recording this, I have the launch coming up for the certification.

And one thing I find I have a hard time explaining is, because I think a lot of certifications are like you come in this space and you learn something very specific that you don’t already know. And so much of what I teach is like no, we’re going to pull this stuff out of your brain.

Now, I’ll add stuff in and it’s definitely like now let’s fill in the blanks. But the first step is always like let’s pull it out of your brain and show you what knowledge you already have, what you already know. Like how to be yourself. How to lean into like, okay, everyone else is maybe doing it this way, but I want to do it this way. And so I’m really glad that you said that the way you did.

I’m like, oh, I need to go back and take notes of how you said it because sometimes I think it’s a harder thing to explain. And I don’t want it to be the space where people come to just learn to coach like me or learn a very specific, like one very specific skill and then just take that and implement it, but to really learn the skill of how to coach like them. How to coach like you. How to find yourself and feel at home in your coaching business.

And that’s why I wanted to have you on, because I thought you’re just such a good example of that work for me. Just watching you was so powerful.

Teresa: Back when we were doing the work in Coaching Masters, that was one of the things that I kept hitting a wall with. I was like, but I’m not doing it this way. I’m not doing it the way this person is doing it. I want to do it more like this person over here. I was comparing myself to how other coaches were showing up and like ranking my ability to do it that way.

And it’s so much different when you can approach it like there’s no right way. And I think one of the biggest benefits my clients have now that I’ve gone through this, for thinking about it from a client perspective is because I’m not being so hard on myself, I’m also not being hard on my clients.

And I mean, it’s not like I was being a terrible coach to them in the past. But I think if you asked my clients over the years what’s shifted for me just in this last six months, it would be that I have this so much broader acceptance for my clients when they show up to calls. Where I’m just like, let’s just coach you where you are.

We’re not pushing anything here. We’re just going to let you be. And it doesn’t matter if you need coaching 10 times on the same thing, I’m all for it. Let’s do this, let’s get you to where you want to be. And I don’t think I was able to do that prior to doing this work on myself.

Lindsay: Yeah. That totally changes the experience for your clients, right? Because, I mean, I think about my spaces like this. I’m sure you’ve seen me say this, but I need to probably say it more, which is just like, show up messy. Like let me be the coach. Let me hold the space for you. Let me coach you. And that’s different than some other spaces, and that’s totally fine. I don’t think that there’s necessarily a right or wrong.

But just for me, I just like to be that space for coaches that’s like, no, no, no, let’s just put it all out there and figure it out together. I’ve got you. You don’t have to have you, because I’ve got you. And we’re just going to work through it.

And I think that there’s something unexpected about that sometimes for coaches, especially if they’re used to being in spaces where it’s like, here’s exactly what’s going to happen. Here’s where we’re all going to start together and where we’re all going to finish together. And that’s fine, it’s just a different thing.

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think you modeling that for me has been a huge benefit to my clients, because that’s how we show up too. Which I think is the best thing for artists because artists don’t want to be like other artists. They want to do their own thing and say their own thing to the world ultimately. And we get really messy and having a coaching container where they can just show up and be whoever they want to be has been, I think, so helpful.

Lindsay: Yeah, I didn’t even think about that, but it’s probably especially true for artists, right? Like part of probably why they got into being an artist is to express themselves and to have that outlet.

Teresa: Totally, yeah. So it’s been really helpful all the way around.

Lindsay: I love it. All right, is there anything else you want to add? Is there anything you were hoping I would bring up or that we didn’t talk about?

Teresa: Oh, there’s lots of things that we didn’t talk about. But no, I think –

Lindsay: Uh-oh, not those things.

Teresa: I think we’ve covered it all. I’m just really appreciative of you, Lindsay. Yeah, it’s been an amazing experience working with you. And yeah, I look forward to whatever is next.

Lindsay: I love it. I hope to see you again at some point in my containers just because I love coaching you so much and it’s so fun.

Okay, so if anybody is listening that wants to find you, tell them. You can plug anything, you can tell them where to find you, but you have to also tell them where they can look at your artwork.

Teresa: Yeah. Okay, so we can do two for one here. So if you just go to teresahaag.com.

Lindsay: And we’ll link it all, by the way, in the show notes. So you can spell it if you want, but you don’t have to.

Teresa: Yeah, it’s Teresa without an H, and then Haag is H-A-A-G. And then my artwork is on that page. And then if you want to see my coaching stuff, you can just click work with me at the top and it will take you over to my coaching website.

Lindsay: Perfect. All right, is there anything else you want to plug or announce your upcoming podcast? Oh, that is a question, are you still going to do the podcast? That’s what we need to know.

Teresa: Yes, it’s coming soon on my Instagram bio. So it is happening and it just won’t be until the beginning of the year-ish sometime. But all the work we’ve done, I have no pressure. I’m like, when it’s ready. Like it’s percolating, it’s coming. Not sure when, but it will be there for sure.

Lindsay: So good, I love that. I can’t wait to listen. I can’t wait to hear it. And I’m so just excited for all of the work you’ve done. I’m so excited for your clients. And you never know, maybe I’ll just show up at one of your retreats and be like, “I’m here. Can I just come in, hang with the artists?”

Teresa: There will always be room for you.

Lindsay: All right. Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate you and I will talk to you soon.

Teresa: Sounds good. Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.