To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey coach, welcome to the podcast party, come on in. I am so happy you’re here. So this week I’m doing something a little bit different as you may have noticed. If you’re like, wait, it’s Monday, or it’s Wednesday, or it’s Thursday and there is a podcast today, yes, this is an entire week of podcast party bonuses.

So as I said on my episode last week, this month I am focusing the entire month on celebrations. On celebrating, why we celebrate, the importance of celebrating, and just really digging into some things that come up when we talk about celebrating and just why it is so, so, so important for us to do, especially if we’re growing businesses or really working on being the best coach possible for our clients which is, of course, my favorite thing, and also important for your clients, right?

A lot of times we love to set big goals, we love to help our clients with big goals. And it’s really important to take time along the way to celebrate, to see the small wins, to say like oh, I’m so proud of myself for achieving this piece, for doing this thing.

So this week happens to be my birthday. So for my birthday what I decided was I wanted to have a party, a podcast party. So every day this week, every day, I am interviewing people from my life who I’m very close to that I have asked to be on the podcast and we are talking all things celebrating, all things fun.

And I will say, when I first started recording these I thought, “Oh, I’m not really sure where this is going to go and this will just be fun to record.” But I’m going to tell you right now, some of these conversations are going to blow your mind. Some of them get very, very deep. And all of these people know me very well, so they tend to be a little bit more of a casual conversation.

So I just want to give a caveat, if you are listening with children, you might pop in some headphones or save this one for later because throughout this week as I’m interviewing my party guests we just talk about some adult related themes, just like you would at any adult party. So that is what’s happening, happy podcast party, come on in and join the fun.

Hello, I am so excited to have you here, this is going to be so fun. A little out of the ordinary for people that listen to the podcast. So, I’m just going to have you introduce yourself. Tell everyone who you are and what you do.

Sara: Hi everyone, I’m Sara and I am Lindsay’s sister, younger but definitely the favorite in the family, unless you ask our grandma. And I’m an elementary school teacher, I’m an EL collaborative teacher, so I work with teachers to better help them reach their students who are multilingual learners.

And I have been doing that for almost 10 years and I’m working on my masters in educational leadership right now. And I’m also a mom to three sometimes wonderful, sometimes bratty children. So, if you hear them screaming in the background, please forgive them.

Lindsay: Yes, I was going to say, first, these podcasts are just a little out of the ordinary anyway, these aren’t my regularly scheduled programming. You and I are having a cocktail as we record this, which we’ll talk about in a second. But for anybody that is listening, if you hear any little kids screaming, or talking, or laughing, or whatever it is that they’re doing in the background, that’s just what’s happening. We’re recording in an evening because Sara works full time. And we’re just rolling with it, making it work.

Sara: Yep, my life.

Lindsay: So, as you said, I am the favorite to everyone in the family.

Sara: That’s not at all what I said, but all right.

Lindsay: Already getting off to a bad start.

Sara: Yep, bad start.

Lindsay: So I actually thought it would be super fun to have you on, especially in this context of just it’s a podcast party, it is my birthday week, not as we’re recording, but when it comes out that’s what will be happening. And it is around that two year kind of birthday of my podcast, which is really fun.

And when I kind of decided who I wanted to have on, I really thought about making it a diverse group of people and just people from kind of all over my life. All people that I know more personally than just, you know, they’re my client, or I’ve worked with them, or they’re another coach in the industry.

And you get the honor, I think, of probably being the one who knows me best. So we’re going to have to keep the personal, you know, secret stories in check. But we’ll see what comes up.

Sara: I’ll do my best.

Lindsay: Okay. So, first of all, we are having a cocktail, which is definitely different than how I usually record my podcasts. And tell them what you’re drinking.

Sara: So I’m normally a wine drinker, but in the winter I like hot drinks. And my bartender husband made me a white chocolate whiskey. So it’s like hot chocolate, but white chocolate, and then it just has, I don’t even know how many shots of whiskey in it, actually, but a few.

Lindsay: And just to be clear, he’s not a professional bartender, he’s an actuary.

Sara: No, he’s just my bartender. Yes, he’s an actuary by day, bartender and chef by night.

Lindsay: Yes, and child wrangler, aka dad.

Sara: Yes, exactly.

Lindsay: Perfect. So I also am drinking, I have a glass of red wine, which is my favorite. Just some Cooper’s Hawk Cabernet that you picked up for me.

Sara: I did, I hope I made some good choices. I tried to do a variety with those.

Lindsay: You did, I love it. So one thing that I’ve been doing for every guest that I have done this with so far is I love to say like when I, because I know you all kind of personally, especially you obviously. I’ve been saying this is what kind of guest I think you are at a party. So like if I was having a party, if I was having a birthday party and invited you over, this is who you would be.

So I’ll do that and you can tell me if you agree or not. And then I thought for this particular episode, because you know me better than probably most people I’m talking to, that we could also do the opposite. And you could say the same thing about me.

Sara: Okay, let’s do it.

Lindsay: But you have to be nice. Those are the rules.

Sara: Okay, promise.

Lindsay: Okay. So I would say when I think about inviting you to a party, first it’s going to start with like the lead-up to the party. Because one thing I noticed recently, and we’ve talked about this a little bit, is how different we are at planning things. I am like, “Here are the big details, let me get those out of the way, handle that. And everything else will be fine, we’ll figure it out later.”

And you are very like, “No, no, I will feel anxious about this until every single detail is handled and then I can move on.” So I’m going to, you, when I say I, you are going to plan every single detail months ahead and it’s going to be just done and then off your plate.

Sara: Correct.

Lindsay: And then when you come to the party, depending on what kind of party it is. But if family is invited and these are, I think, your words, you say this sometimes, like you’re just going to bring the chaos because you have young kids. You’re just going to bring the chaos, show up with kids for people to love on and just hang out. Let everybody else take care of your kids, because that’s what we love to do when they’re here.

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: Is that like a fair assessment? And did I get anything wrong?

Sara: No, I think that’s fair. I also like to occasionally start dramatic political conversations for fun.

Lindsay: Yes, this is true.

Sara: That’s a thing I like to do for fun. But otherwise, that sounds right, yes.

Lindsay: Love it. So I don’t get into politics a lot on my podcast, or really at all. I try to stay fairly neutral, but that is not true for you. So if anybody listening finds you on social media, they’re going to know exactly where you stand.

Sara: Yes, they will.

Lindsay: You were at the polls on, actually I think maybe I I talked about this somewhere. Oh, it may have been on a coaching call in my mastermind, but you were at the polls recently on election day talking about —

Sara: Working for school board members, yes.

Lindsay: Yes. So good, which I love. I love that so much about you. And we do share similar opinions, I just don’t voice them openly as often as you do.

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: Would you say that’s a fair assessment? Did I miss anything? Is there anything else that you love to do at parties besides bring the chaos and just maybe have some conversations about politics and make people uncomfortable?

Sara: Yeah, I like to stand next to the snacks, preferably queso, and eat it until I feel sick and should have stopped way sooner. But otherwise, spot on, yes.

Lindsay: This is so good. It’s so fun interviewing non coaches because my first thought when you said that is like, “Oh man, we have coaches for that, we can help with the nonstop, not being able to stop eating queso. There’s definitely a coach for that.” And I fully support that habit.

Sara: No, the queso is happiness. So I’m going to keep that habit.

Lindsay: And they might be able to hear the kids in the background currently. And when you were, let’s see, Ty, right? When Ty was a baby he, my nephew, your son, you couldn’t have queso.

Sara: Correct, he was allergic.

Lindsay: And that was a big problem.

Sara: Yeah, he was allergic to dairy and soy and I fed him exclusively breast milk for, I think we got to about eight months. And yeah, I couldn’t have dairy or soy. Which people listening may not realize, I know you do, because you went through something similar with Harper, but soy is in literally everything. So I had to give up everything. So yeah, I’m reclaiming queso for the rest of my life.

Lindsay: Yes. I remember we were on a mission to find the like vegan queso substitute. There was one that kind of made the cut.

Sara: It was okay. It was all right.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Sara: I think it was Sam’s Club. But yeah, it was not the same.

Lindsay: Okay, so tell them like what is your, if I was coming to your house to a party what would that look like?

Sara: So if we’re talking family party, that’s going to be very different, I feel like, for both of us. But to a family party you would probably forget it was even happening until like the day before. And then you would show up, now it used to be like a few hours late, but you have really grown in that area. So I will give credit where credit is due. Now it’s like an hour late, usually, instead of multiple hours, so that’s good.

And then when you show up, you usually bring the party. So typically you, I mean, your kids used to bring chaos, but now they’re like moody teenagers so they kind of just sulk. But I don’t know, you talk to everyone and you are usually up offering to get drinks for people, or serving them food, or trying to distract my crazy children. You’re pretty much nonstop movement at family parties, like you don’t sit down very often.

Lindsay: Interesting, I like that.

Sara: Now, a party with your friends is a little different. I would say at a party with your friends, you’re a little bit more stationary, but high energy in terms of your conversation. Like talking to everyone, very bubbly, talking to people you do and do not know while drinking wine. But more stationary, less of like the motherly, mother hen behavior, more like college party girl behavior, you know?

Lindsay: College party girl, yes.

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: Although compared to my college party girl behavior, that has certainly changed.

Sara: Yeah, not those days.

Lindsay: And I will say for anyone listening, it’s funny because I’ve talked about this on the podcast before, I don’t know that I’ve said it in these particular terms. But in my family I used to be known as just like the person who’s late to everything. But it’s often referred to as Lindsay time, I’m just on Lindsay time.

And it’s so funny because I coach so many of my clients who have lots of drama about this and who are like, “I just never, I can never figure out time, I’m always late to everything.” I’m like, “Listen, if I can do it, you can do it.”

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: Because in my professional life I might still show up late sometimes to whatever, parties and things like that. But that feels a little optional to me, like that time is flexible. That’s the thought that maybe is causing the trouble. But when it comes to professional, like as a coach, I couldn’t be more opposite. But I had to work on that, that was not just, it wasn’t just like I came into coaching with like, “Oh, I’m just going to be on time now.” It was something I very, very hard had to work on.

And if I think about my just professional background in general of any job I’ve ever had, I’ve always been on time. So there is that, there’s just like a different thought there, I guess, that shows up.

Sara: Yeah, social Lindsay has different timing than business Lindsay. But on the opposite end of that, like I am probably too far on the other side of that spectrum, you know what I mean? Where I need to like adopt some Lindsay time occasionally for social things because I don’t get out of that like business professional timing mindset ever. So, happy medium.

Lindsay: Yeah, that’s true. We could also call it Sara time. Sometimes my husband will say, like it’s been a while since we’ve had a party, although that’s about to change. But we used to have people over all the time, we used to have get togethers and Sara is about 10, nine years, a little over nine years younger than me, and still would always be the first one there.

And maybe a little early, because I feel like the party starting time is optional. Like I’m having a party that starts at six, you’re probably going to show up at like seven, you know, or 6:30.

Sara: No, I will be there at 5:45.

Lindsay: Yes, exactly. That is what I was going to say. I’m like, “Wait, we’re not even, we haven’t even, the house isn’t even ready. What’s happening? Someone’s knocking on the door. How rude.” And then it’s you, which is always fine because you probably brought some wine, maybe picked up my wine for me on the way, good to go.

Sara: Yes, we’re definitely polar opposites in that way, but I am working to find the balance in that way too.

Lindsay: But that’s okay, just invite both both of us and together we will balance each other out.

Sara: We will show up on time.

Lindsay: That’s right.

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: Okay, so because this is, all of these podcasts all this week all about celebrations, I want to know how you love to celebrate. So for some of the coaches and entrepreneurs I’m having on I’m asking them the difference between like personal celebration and in your business when you hit milestones.

So for you, I’m curious, like if it’s your birthday, something along those lines, let’s start there. What’s your preferred way to celebrate?

Sara: So for my birthday I prefer all my favorite people to be there. So what I mean by that, I guess, is not like a huge party. Like I don’t want a huge impersonal gathering for anything, I want it to be like my people. And either go out and do some kind of fun activity, like an escape room, or bowling or something like that after dinner. Or stay home but do like a fully planned out game night, like something really intentional.

Just that like interaction and socialization. I spend my entire day with little kids, so my personal celebrations typically involve opportunities to hang out with adults. And usually there’s drinking involved, there’s usually food involved. But I do like an activity. Like I like to have, I know this is going to shock everyone after the conversation we just had, but I like to have a planned activity in place for the celebration.

Lindsay: Yeah. I’m a little more like, let’s see what the night takes us. I don’t know, who knows where we’ll end up.

Okay, what about, so if you think about, obviously, you’re not an entrepreneur, you’re not a coach. But if you think about just maybe in your professional life or just different ways of celebrating where it’s not like, it’s my birthday, we’re going to celebrate this thing. But just celebrating milestones in your life or goals that you have.

Sara: So two things come to mind. First, I think I said at the beginning I’m studying to get my master’s in educational leadership. So I’ve taken six courses at this point in my masters, so it’s always a little celebration when a semester is over. Just one step closer.

So for masters, I don’t know about other programs, but for this one we take two classes at a time, so six credit hours. But because their masters levels, it’s a lot of reading, a lot of writing, heavy participation. So I guess small moment celebrations would be like getting one of my masters courses done and spoiling myself with like going to get my nails done, or going shopping and getting myself a new outfit, or meeting a friend for drinks.

So I try to find little ways to celebrate when I finish each semester to kind of, I don’t know, it’s really freaking hard to be a full-time working mom and also take masters courses. So I try to like pump myself up in my brain to remember like, I just did that. I just completed that, I did it, I can do this again.

So just little ways of spoiling myself. It could be, honestly, as simple as like taking an extra nap on a Saturday. It doesn’t have to be anything extravagant, but just something to, to train my brain to remember that I did something amazing and I deserve something good out of that.

Bigger than that what comes to mind in teaching in general, and I do both roles, I work directly with students and I also do a co-teaching coaching sort of relationship with their teachers. And when I work with kids, honestly, you could ask almost any teacher and they will tell you that the reason they stay in education right now is because there’s a moment when a kid gets something, like they just get it.

And it actually happened today where I was practicing math facts with this little girl. She just moved here from Russia this year, she’s just learning English. We were working on her nines, she didn’t know any of them and within a few minutes she went through the whole stack because of something that I told her, like a tool that I gave her. And she was able to get through, it was like eight cards maybe, right? So that in the grand scheme of things feels really tiny.

But for her, like the look on her face, the excitement as a teacher, that’s why we do what we do, right, that look. And kids are easy, they get excited about everything. But the older they get, the less they celebrate themselves. So we really try to pour into them.

So like for her today I really just, like I cheered for her, we jumped up and down and danced in the middle of the classroom. She got to go tell some other teachers what she did. So that’s a big thing that we do with little kids, is take them to other adults in the building and just get that like positive reinforcement for what they’ve just done. So celebration at school can look really differently. Sometimes we call parents and tell them amazing things their kids have done, which is also a really amazing feeling.

And as teachers ourselves, like we try to do our own little social gatherings and get togethers every month. And we have a rule where we are only allowed to share positive things about school when we’re together because, you know, naturally you’re going to vent to the people who are feeling the same experience as you.

But it’s really hard to remember those small victories and to lean into that. So we’ve set that kind of expectation for our social gatherings, that if school is going to come up, it can only be something positive. And that’s been really great.

Lindsay: I love that so much. This is actually really similar to something that I teach, which I’ll tell you in a minute and see what you think about it. But I just love that. And I think that there’s, first of all, for anyone listening I’m kind of laughing as you’re talking about this because for anyone listening, they’re probably like, “Wait, I think this is what I do. I also do this with my clients,” right?

Like teaching them how to notice, “Oh, you made this improvement.” Like, why are we coaches? Not all coaches, but a lot of us are coaches because that moment that a client has a breakthrough and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I see something that I’ve never ever seen in my entire life, like, what?” Like it blows their mind, and you see it on their face, and you see it in their eyes. That is so powerful.

And this is actually one of the reasons that I thought you would be a perfect guest, even though you’re not a coach, because I feel like coaching is actually a big part of your job.

Sara: Yeah. Coaching and teaching are, I mean, very, very similar. Even coaching in the most like literal sense that people think of with sports teams, like doing that. I volunteered and coached a soccer team and even just the parallels between coaching a sport, teaching, and listening to you and what you do, it’s all, you know, there’s so many similarities. There’s so many overlapping principles of all of those things that I think it makes a lot of sense that it’s similar to what you would teach.

Lindsay: And there are definitely people listening, I know this because some of them are my clients, that are teachers, and that are coaches for teachers and coaches for all different types of teachers, right? Like coaches for new teachers, coaches for teachers that are closer to retirement that are like trying to get through their last years and that just really help teachers be the best teacher they can be as long as they want to keep teaching.

Sara: We have an instructional coach in our building as well. So I always joke with her because she ends up being like my life coach at school, because she’s a close friend. But I tell her all the time, “You sound like my sister,” every time she talks to me. But her job is very, very similar to what you do, just with teachers.

Lindsay: Yeah, of course. I think that sometimes it blows coaches minds to hear, I mean I know a lot of coaches know of certain types of coaches, right? So there’s like coaches who are entrepreneurs who work for themselves. And then there are coaches that work in companies, right? A lot of companies now hire like executive type coaches, or organizational type coaches, like that kind of thing.

But I think there are so many places that hire coaches that just people don’t even realize how kind of common coaching is becoming.

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: So one thing that I teach my clients, it’s funny, I’m like where do I start? Do you know what I do? I’m not sure. But I have a, actually you do because you have a friend who I’ve recently learned is in my program, which is really funny.

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: But in that program, one thing I teach is the way we get better at coaching is we evaluate our coaching, right? So we decide like, what are we working on? And then I teach them how to do an evaluation. And the evaluation is always you start with like what worked, right? And that’s the most important part. What went really well? Like make sure to list all of it even if it feels small and silly.

And then the next part is what maybe didn’t work? Like what didn’t go great? And then the third part is, what are you going to do differently? And that is like addressing every single thing on the what didn’t work right. So that when you look back at it later, you can see exactly, “Oh, this is exactly how I go forward because I have the list right here. These are the things I’m going to do differently.”

But sometimes, and I know you’ll be shocked by this, but sometimes my clients in particular, because in coaching we say a lot of times you attract people who are similar to you. So my clients can be pretty hard on themselves. And they like to be really good at things. And they pressure themselves just a little bit and they’re a little bit like perfectionist. Which is all the reasons that I hired a coach years ago to begin with, because I was all of those things.

And sometimes they come to me and they say, “I hate doing this. I hate it because I don’t want to think about what I did wrong. I don’t want to think about it.” So the assignment I always give them is, fine, just do the first part. It’s literally the most important. Just focus on what’s going well.

Sara: What worked.

Lindsay: What worked. Find the things, and I tell them you have to find things. So you’re not allowed to turn in an evaluation that has zero things that worked. And they’re always so surprised about the difference that that makes. And it sounds really similar to what you were saying earlier, where it’s like we focus on, like we come to the party, we’re only allowed to talk about good things when it comes to teaching.

Sara: Yes, and actually the whole process you just described, in education we do something called PLC, which is professional learning communities. And we tend to do them within grade levels, but we literally go through that exact process.

So there’s guiding questions, this is a whole like pedagogy that’s been around for a long time. But there are guiding questions that go with it. And it is, of course, I’m on the spot so I’m not going to remember the exact wording, but it’s like, what worked? What didn’t work? How are we going to respond when students didn’t learn? What went well?

And then the additional part about that, which I’m sure that your clients do with you and within your classes is that we look at each other for guidance. So like if you were really successful in this area and I wasn’t, what can I take from you and use?

Lindsay: Yes.

Sara: And then if I was successful in an area that you weren’t, that kind of like sharing piece back and forth is a big part of PLC. And it’s very data driven, which I know that you guys, as coaches, look at that. I mean, you’re trying to make money, you’re looking at your numbers all the time, you’re looking at your success rate, how many people you’re reaching, all of these things.

So it’s different numbers, but the same idea, right, of like data driven and response. Or not response, but what am I trying to say? Results driven, and sharing those celebrations of each other. So like, what can I celebrate about your classroom that I can then bring to mine?

And that’s a big thing in education right now, is reminding teachers it’s not a rainbows and butterflies field to be in right now, it’s pretty terrible at some points. So the celebrations are honestly the only things that keep us going. Because when you said the part about your clients being perfectionists and wanting to quit, I can’t even tell you how many times I hear from teachers, I mean, daily like, “I’m not doing this anymore, I can’t do this anymore.” And we all know they’re going to come back tomorrow.

But it’s just that like boiling over frustration of I’m never going to fix everything. I’m never going to have this like perfectly functioning classroom with all high achieving kids on these state tests, and all parents who are trying to volunteer and come in my room. Like all of those things that we desire and that we want for our students, we’re never going to reach, or it feels like we’re never going to reach.

And in teaching we get one year. Like we got 180 days with these kids. So sometimes you don’t, you don’t reach the lofty goals that you’ve set, but we keep coming back. And it’s just like those reminders of what did you do? Like today I taught a second grader her nines. Like she can now add her nine facts because I did that. And for her, for that child, that’s a big deal.

So, we may not get her to grade level proficiency on the iLearn exam this year. Like we may not whatever, all the ridiculous standards that this state sets for us. But we’re doing things all day every day that matter. And that’s a hard thing.

It’s a hard thing to focus on those breakthrough moments when the big picture goal is like almost looming over your head for teachers and feeling really formidable. It’s feeling like a rain cloud at all times, like constant worry, constant anxiety about not reaching this made up potential that they say we’re all supposed to reach all the time. So remembering what we do every day instead.

Lindsay: What’s interesting for a lot of, probably coaches listening is they’re like, “Oh, I totally get this.” Because what some coaches do who are new coaches who aren’t making money in their business, not making the money that they want to make, which is a lot of new coaches, right? You have to start somewhere and it takes a while to build it up.

And sometimes coaches come in thinking, “Oh, this is just, I mean, coaches make money. Like that’s just what they do. And so that’s what I’m going to do.” But it’s so easy to find the examples of the handful of, you know, you pick the handful of examples that set an impossible bar in your first year, right? And in your second year, and your third year without looking at like but what’s their story? How did they get where they are?

And I think that it’s just such an important, like when you said, “Oh these like impossible standards,” right? I think coaches do that to themselves too. Oh, I have this impossible goal of making $100,000 my first year or whatever it is. Which I love to remind them that is not the standard. That is not what most coaches are doing. And I don’t talk a lot about money in my programs, I like to measure things based on the results your clients are getting, like the value that you’re giving, like how are you delivering your coaching and measuring it that way. Because for me, that measurement, it was always so much more useful, right? Like whose life did I change today? I don’t care if I have one client, this is important work. And it’s so similar to what you just said, like it mirrors so much of that.

Sara: Yes, it absolutely does. And in teaching it’s, I mean, it’s a whole spectrum of anything from teaching them their math facts to literally just giving them a hug in the morning because they haven’t had one all weekend, right? Or coming to school on Monday and acting excited to see them, or when they’re out sick and they come back and you tell them you missed them.

Like there are so many little ways that are actually not little to a kid, they’re huge. But little for us to celebrate tiny moments throughout the day and remember for that kid, that might have changed their entire life. I mean, I know I have things that happened with me with teachers that changed the entire course of my life.

So I’m sure with coaches it’s the same. That one client, I can’t think of what that is, there’s like a story, I think it’s about a starfish or something or somebody walking on the beach. And there’s all these things on the beach and they can’t save them all. But they can save the one and it matters to that one.

Lindsay: I don’t know it, I don’t think.

Sara: Sand dollar, I forget what it is, starfish or something like that. But that’s the premise of the story, is like you look around and see all of these things you can’t save or fix or achieve or whatever, but to the one that you can, it matters and it makes the world of difference for that one person, creature, organization, whatever it is that you’re reaching toward.

So I try to remember that when I’m feeling like quitting, which honestly happens a lot these days. But I try to remember what I’m doing. And especially in my job, working with multilingual learners, sometimes I am the only face their family sees that is friendly and can communicate with them in their first language. So that is huge for them.

So trying to like celebrate the fact that I can give that to them. That simple fact of being able to tell them good morning in their first language is something worth celebrating for them and for me. And I guess those are, I mean, you asked how I celebrate, some of those are just like mental note celebrations to myself, I guess.

Not even like a physical thing, tangible thing. But just in my brain that like rush of adrenaline or that feeling of like, “I just did something really great.” That itself, I feel like is a reward. And so when I feel that from something that I’ve done, I try to like lean into it and remind myself that it feels good to be able to make a difference, to be able to do these little things. So I feel like that feeling itself is a celebration, if that makes sense.

Lindsay: I think it makes perfect sense. And actually, so I didn’t tell you this before, but for the whole month of December all of my podcasts, so there’s I think four Tuesdays in December, which is when my podcast comes out. Every Tuesday is, besides this week long celebration, which is what we’re recording right now. But every Tuesday I’m talking about celebrations like in a different way. Covering kind of all things.

And one thing that I talk about is, I just lost my train of thought, hold on. This is why I don’t record podcasts with a glass of wine. What was the thing that you just said?

Sara: Small mental celebrations.

Lindsay: Oh yeah. So one thing I teach in my mastermind, so we have an in-person event for a couple days, this is something new that’s in my mastermind. And everyone that is coming is creating something new. So they’re maybe creating like a, for example, a couple of people are creating a new podcast, some people are creating like workbooks that go with their coaching, creating a new coaching program.

So they kind of have like a project that they’re coming with. And they map it all out, plan the whole thing in those couple days and leave with like an exact roadmap of how they’re going to do it. And one thing that I tell them that I think is one of the most important things is it’s so easy to get stuck in, like when you’re creating something new it’s so easy to get stuck in this is hard. I don’t know how to do it. This sucks, it’s hard, whatever, all those thoughts.

Versus I think one of the most important things you can do is stop along the way and just look around and think, oh my gosh, this is the first time that I’m ever do doing this thing. This is the first time that I, like when I did my very first live event I purposefully would stop throughout the day and like this is maybe the only time that the room will be this small, right? That I get like this much hands-on attention with every one of my clients. That I just soak it in in this way.

Like nothing from this point forward, even if it’s the same size, even if it’s whatever, nothing will ever be exactly like this moment. And to me, like just even those things, right, like stopping and just taking note of it, just breathing it in, taking 30 seconds, making a mental like check mark of this is what I’m doing, this is how it feels, this is what it looks like. Making that memory is so important.

Sara: Yes, I absolutely agree. I like to remind myself sometimes when I’m feeling like I’m not achieving anything, or I’m not doing anything noteworthy or worthy of celebration, am I allowed to cuss on your podcast?

Lindsay: Yes.

Sara: Or do I have to be clean?

Lindsay: No, you’re good.

Sara: That I’m a badass, right? And I have to like straighten out my crown and do another day of the same stuff because it is badass and it is changing lives, and it’s amazing. And sometimes I have to just like have those pep talks inside my brain, to nobody else. Kind of like affirmations, I guess, but mine usually involve cuss words.

But yeah, like those mental notes of all of the amazing things that I’ve done for that day because we’re all doing great things every day. We wouldn’t be here, your listeners wouldn’t be listening to your podcast if they weren’t actively trying or achieving great things every single day because they’re obviously seeking growth, which is great in itself. Like that’s a celebration in itself, them seeking that growth for themselves.

So just that reminder of like there is something we can celebrate every single day. Like one day it might be the math facts, another day it might be that I got my toddler to bed without 7,000 fits and eight cups of water. But that’s a celebration because that means I did something better with my parenting that day than the day before, right? Or at least I tell myself that. It might just be that she felt like being nice to me.

But I can tell myself that, right? Like it’s a mini celebration. It’s something that day that went better than the day before. And that’s really hard for me, like I’m saying it like it’s a regular practice, but it is an active thought process that I have to go through and like force myself to do it sometimes. But I always feel healthier and happier if I force myself to do that.

And sometimes, to be honest, because our mom will probably listen to this. Sometimes I text mom when I do something really great because anybody else would be super annoyed when you brag about yourself. You know, like you can’t just go around bragging about yourself or your kids to random people.

Lindsay: Oh, you can. No, no, no, you can. As coaches this is a rule, like you’re allowed to celebrate yourself all of the time. It doesn’t matter how small, like I did this thing today.

Sara: Okay, well I don’t live in the coach community, so I have to be careful. But teachers are pretty good about that, if it’s a teacher, I think.

Lindsay: You should come on over, we’re fun.

Sara: But I do like to sometimes just call or text mom and be like, “Listen to how great I was today. It was amazing. I’m amazing.” Because as my mom, of course, she’s like, “You are amazing. You’re the best. Better than your sister.” No, but she is the best at, you know, like giving me that feedback. But sometimes if I feel like I really need the boost, I’ll tell her instead of myself because then she feeds it right back to me, like you are so amazing.

Yeah, my three year old, or four year old now, is pretty good about that too. She’ll tell me how awesome I am a lot. So if I’m needing external validation because my internal thoughts are not working, I try to brag about myself to the people that I know loves me and who want to hear about my successes. Because then they give it right back to me.

So sometimes I’m human, I need that external validation. And that is one thing I do to seek it out, I guess. I guess that’s a type of celebration too, getting to call my mom and tell her I did something amazing. Like she raised me, so for her that’s a celebration. And for me, right, to be able to tell her that. So that’s another thing I like to do.

Lindsay: I think what’s amazing about it, is that just even you, like you saying that, anyone that’s listening because mostly coaches, although there are some who are still teachers who are also coaches, but mostly coaches, right?

And for them to hear you say, “And I don’t think I did anything great today” or however you said it, I’m sure their thoughts are, are you kidding me? Like you’re a teacher, you’re like a hero. You did something I don’t want to do. Or you had my kids at school today. Right, like whatever their thoughts are, and it’s so much easier to see it outside of yourself.

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: And I think that that is something just so important for everyone to hear, when it comes to celebrating, when it comes to taking in the small wins instead of just waiting till you have accomplished the big huge thing. Those, I think, are more important along the way because I talk about this, but it’s a weird concept to think about, but by the time you get to the win, by the time you’ve accomplished the big thing, it feels normal. It doesn’t feel like you think it’s going to feel in the very beginning.

So like when you finish your masters, right, like when you very first start your masters you’re like, “Whoa, this is going to be huge, it’s going to be this big thing.” But by the time you’re done, you’ve already done all the work to be the person who’s completed it. So it doesn’t usually feel like you think it’s going to feel. Like there will be relief and excitement and all of that, but it’s also like, “Yeah, this is just who I am. I’ve been working. I worked hard for this.” I’ve been working on this the last, what is it? Two years, three years?

Sara: Well no, for my masters just almost two now. But when you say that, I actually think more about just teaching in general because I work with a lot of first year teachers. And if you had asked me my first year, I would have pointed to somebody who, not that I’m like this perfect teacher, but somebody experienced like me who could go into a classroom and command the room, right?

Like I don’t have an issue with behavior because I’ve done it for 10 years. But my first year I cried every day. I called mom every day after work and said, “I hate my life. I hate my job, I have to quit. This is terrible.” I Googled every day, what else can I do with this degree that’s not teaching, because I’m terrible at this. I am awful at this. I’m failing my kids, I’m failing myself, you know, all the things.

And I would have looked at someone like where I’m at now and said that, like that’s the standard. And even now I have people who have done it better than me.

Lindsay: I’m not like her, I’m not doing that.

Sara: I still do it now, right? Because there’s teachers who have been doing it for 20, 30 years who are amazing rockstars. But, like you said, I don’t feel now like I get to celebrate the fact that I can manage classroom behavior. Or if a teacher comes to me and they’re like, “A kid’s not learning this, what should I try next?” Like I pretty much always have an answer for them. And if I don’t, I know where to find it.

And if you had asked me 10 years ago, I would have cried because I would not have known. So you’re absolutely right. I’ve never really thought about it that way. But, you know, I wouldn’t say I’m at the end of it, but I am at the point where I would have said I wanted to be 10 years ago as a teacher. And it doesn’t feel like a celebration now, it just feels like this is who I am. I am a teacher, I know what I’m doing.

And, like you said, I’ve worked really hard to get there. But I don’t think, I think as a more experienced teacher now I do a better job of doing these things we’re talking about, celebrating myself. And I wish that I had done more of that in those first years. Because, like I said, I cried every day, I wanted to quit. I was miserable and I still showed up to work.

Lindsay: A lot of coaches probably relate to this.

Sara: Yeah.

Lindsay: Just I know there are some that are like, “Why did I make these choices? This is terrible, I hate it, I want to quit.”

Sara: Exactly. And another way I can relate is because if those coaches aren’t making any money yet, I surely wasn’t making any money either. So I was doing a job that I thought was worthwhile and was going to change the world and all these things. And I was making no money, we were putting all of our groceries on credit cards, like racking up all this debt. I was hating my life every single day.

But at the end of that first year, I had a parent come to me and tell me – I’m trying not to cry on your podcast, this is supposed to be a celebration. But come to me and tell me that I was the only –

Lindsay: Listen, sometimes that happens at parties too, we know.

Sara: That’s true, especially if we’ve been drinking for a while. But she told me at the end of that first year that I cried every day, “You are the only teacher who’s ever actually listened to my child.” And I had had behavior problems with this child all year. Like I thought we were always toe to toe, but I did listen to her. That’s one thing I’ve always been good at as a teacher, is building those relationships. I’m definitely better at it now.

But like that mom saying that should have been a huge celebration for me. And at the time I was just like, “Okay, great, but I still have kids throwing chairs in my classroom, so gotta go.” And I did not take the time to feel those moments then.

And I probably would have spent a lot less time being miserable as a teacher and I probably would have, not that I didn’t make a difference or do great things, but I probably would have had the capacity to do more great things and learn more and be more in those first few years if I had given myself the chance to feel and celebrate the small wins because they were there.

But it’s hard, when you’re in the thick of it and money, money always makes everything harder in the beginning. You know, when you’re doing something you love because you love it and that’s your motivation, like psychologically we are all motivated by rewards. We like to be incentivized as human beings.

But when you’re in something like that, there is no incentive. Like there’s not some giant paycheck at the end for teachers. And I’m sure first few year coaches like they’re not walking away with a big paycheck right now, that’s not what they’re getting out of it. So I can imagine that it’s a similar feeling.

But that would be my advice to any of them in those first parts, the first years of their coaching, if it feels anything like I did, to feel those moments. And to stop and realize, like even if that’s all I did, was hear that child, that one child, even if that’s the only thing I accomplished that entire year, like that moment could have changed her entire life.

That could have made her not hate school. That could have made her stay in school. I was working in an area where dropout rates were extremely high. The school, not to get political, but the school to prison pipeline is a very real thing in that area, right? Like it is a vicious cycle. And if I could connect to one child, like that’s a big deal.

So I would hope that your listeners who are in that place can feel that like ripple effect of even one good thing that they’ve done, sooner than 10 years later. Because it shouldn’t have taken me that long, but it has. Lindsay: It’s so good. I love so much that you shared that, thank you. And thank you for being willing to be emotional about it because I think that it is, I say this about coaching, I think that it sounds dramatic sometimes. But sometimes I think coaches save lives if they are saving marriages, right? Saving family relationships, saving I’m drawing a blank because there are so many options.

But literally, you know, helping people with nutrition, helping people not quit as a teacher, helping people.

Sara: Yes, or like my friend that listens to your podcast does parent, like family coaching. So I know she talks about that a lot, like even if I help one family be able to function as a family unit, like that’s huge. Raising kids is freaking hard. So hard. So yes, I agree.

Lindsay: Oh, I think about this all the time, right? It’s like being a parenting coach is like think of the effect. I love to do this because that’s part of why I get so excited about coaching. But it’s like think of the effect that you’re having, not just on your client, because yeah your client is going to feel better about parenting and just show up differently in their lives and feel different. But think of the effect that has on the kids, right?

Sara: and their kids, and their kid’s kids.

Lindsay: Yes.

Sara: Like parenting is a, I mean, that ripples forever, generational effects from that. But same with marriages, like if you’re saving somebody’s marriage, same. I mean, it’s kind of mind blowing to think of. It’s the same with teaching, one small little thing, like when you actually stop and think about the capabilities of that one little action to change literally everything., it’s almost overwhelming, but it’s definitely worth celebrating.

Lindsay: Yeah, and I think pretty much, for anyone’s listening, I would challenge you to take take a second and think about like what is the triple of the type of coaching that I do? Because it’s not just for these types of coaching, right?

Like even I think about like money coaches, right, who are like changing generational money stories, that are breaking boundaries and like just because this is where you came from, doesn’t mean this is who you have to be now or like what you have to create in your life.

Literally any type of coaching is, like we could link it back to exactly what you’re saying with teaching, right? Like linking it back to just breaking cycles that might be there that no one else is going to stop if they don’t do the work, you know, this work.

Sara: Yes. And just seeing someone, like seeing that person. Really seeing them, really hearing them is huge for some people. I mean, even if you can’t fix whatever the issue is in their marriage. At the end of the day the fact that you’re seeing them and hearing them and validating the fact that they can have those feelings and that they’re human, right, like that is in itself a huge thing.

Lindsay: Okay, here’s what I love so much about what’s happening right now, is that this is like the party podcast and it’s going to be fun and like all the things. And I feel like the conversation we’re having right now is very symbolic of a conversation that you and I might have at a party.

Sara: When we’re drunk.

Lindsay: When we’ve had a glass of wine.

Sara: When we’ve had too much to drink. Yes, I like to get emotional. I’m not, for anybody listening, another way that Lindsay and I are opposite, I am not very like lovey-dovey. I mean, neither of us really are, I guess. But I’m probably even less so into sharing my emotions and talking about how I feel, until I have alcohol. And then it kind of just all comes out.

So yes, Lindsay and I have had lots of these conversations over a few glasses of wine. But it does, I feel like we should like do a song and dance number or something to liven things up because you made me cry, so.

Lindsay: What’s really funny about that is that people that know me well, or that have worked with me, or that have just been around me, probably think like, wait a minute, like, of the two of you, Lindsay is the emotional one?

But I think what is different, and this changed a lot for me just with coaching, is I became able to like talk about my feelings, describe my feelings. Like own yeah, this is how I’m feeling right now and I don’t have to change it. Like, this is just where I am. I’m having so much anxiety today, I’m having, you know, I feel sad, I feel like whatever. And yeah, I didn’t used to be like that before coaching.

Sara: No, I would say you were always an emotional person but you weren’t very, that’s why I struggled with that when I was saying it. You were emotional, but you didn’t openly talk about your emotions. But you could visibly see your emotions, if that make sense.

Lindsay: Yeah.

Sara: Like I, as your sister, could tell usually if you were anxious, or sad, or whatever, just from patterns of behavior.

Lindsay: Yeah, I liked to bottle them up.

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: That was one of the reasons that coaching was so useful for me is to just like, and I’d had a lot of therapy and like all all of the things and that was also very useful. But there’s just something about coaching that has really helped me own like this is just how I’m feeling right now, and no matter what that is, it’s okay.

Sara: Yes. And you all should know that, as my sister, I often come to Lindsay and tell her either, well we’ve had this conversation because as sisters, you know, that’s a unique relationship. So she doesn’t want to overly coach me on things if I don’t want to be coached.

So when her coaching career kind of started to take off and she became more naturally like in that coaching mindset all the time, she told me like if I’m being too coachy, you have to tell me. Because her advice as a coach is almost never what I want to hear in the moment, like pretty much never what I want to hear, ever.

But her advice as a sister is like 100% you’re right, Sara. Those people are awful, that thing is awful. You are absolutely right. Like you weren’t in the wrong. I hate them. Do I need to beat somebody up for you? Not that she would ever, but that’s her response is very sister like. So oftentimes now when I come to you, I will tell you like, I need coach Lindsay or I need sister Lindsay, which don’t tell everyone I get your services for free either way.

But it is useful because it’s like my friend at work that I said reminds me of you, sometimes I tell her the same thing. Like I need a coach answer or a friend answer because your coach answers are pretty much never what I want to hear in the moment. But they’re the ones that I then think about after.

So I’m more of like have the feelings, but I like to think about them and sit on them and be very anxious about them for a while before I deal with them. So yeah, I think we’re very different in that way.

Lindsay: I love that you brought that up because it’s something I’ve talked about on the podcast. You know Sheri.

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: I’ve had Sheri on the podcast, I’ve interviewed her and we’ve talked about this, right? Like the difference between how do you be friends with someone, best friends with someone and be their coach because Sheri is my client.

And we’ve talked about this where it’s like, oh, you just have to know the boundary. And sometimes even some of my clients in the Coach Lab will come like ask for coaching and they’ll say, “Well, I was trying to coach my husband.” And I’m like, “Whoa, hold on. Before you even telling me what happened, did your husband ask for coaching? Because it’s a bad idea. Why are you doing this?” Right?

It’s like, no, you’re a coach, or you’re a spouse, or you’re a partner, or you’re a sister, or you’re a daughter, or you’re a whatever. And just like you wouldn’t, you Sara, wouldn’t walk around the world teaching people math facts, a coach doesn’t need to walk around the world coaching everyone without consent.

Sara: Yes.

Lindsay: Which consent is a big thing that I teach in the Coach Lab and I have modules about it because I think it’s important. It’s like do you want coaching on this? And here’s what that means, right? Here’s what that might look like. It’s not going to be comfortable. It’s not going to be necessarily tell me who it was, I’ll beat them up. It’s going to be like, let’s look at your thoughts. How are you feeling about this? It’s going to be a little more introspective and sometimes you don’t.

Sara: You don’t want to hear it.

Lindsay: Even me. Sometimes I’m like absolutely not. I do not want coaching, I want to be mad. I want to be upset about this. Do not coach me out of it, I’ll come back later when I’m ready.

Sara: Yes, and sometimes I do ask you for both the answers. I need sister first and then give me like 24 hours and I’ll take the coach. But no, your listeners may be surprised to hear that it’s actually, or maybe they won’t be, but it’s similar with kids. Like no, I don’t ask them if they want to learn today, right? But the whole relationship building piece with teaching is, in some ways, asking for consent to teach them, right?

Because if you don’t work on building that relationship with them, they don’t give you consent to teach them whether you think you have it or not. You can preach at them all day long and they’re not going to hear you. Just like as a coach, if you’re, you know, if these coaches are wanting to coach their husband who is not wanting to hear it, been there but he tells me I’m talking to him like he’s a child. So that’s the bad side effects of my teacher voice.

Lindsay: Well, your coaching comes out sounding like a teacher for little kids.

Sara: A teacher, yeah, for children. So he does not love that. But, yeah, it’s the same with kids, right? Like they don’t verbally give you consent to teach them necessarily, but that behavior piece is their consent. If they’re behaving and they’re sitting in your classroom, and they’re attentive, and they’re participating, that is them giving you the consent to teach them.

And if they don’t want to give you consent, as a child, that’s going to look like throwing chairs, throwing pencils, talking to neighbors, which kids do some of this anyway. But if it’s an extreme, right, where it’s happening all the time, in my first job cussing at me, literally cussing at me. Like those were moments where they were not giving me consent to teach them anything.

And I had to step back and be a human first and a teacher second because they had bigger things going on in that moment that they needed me to say to them, like you’re right, you were totally wrong, this is a terrible situation, who do I need to beat up? But it’s the same, it really is the same with teaching kids.

Adults are just grown up kids and we really do have the same, we’re better at controlling it sometimes, but we do have the same thought process, the same needs as kids do. So it’s very much the same in that way.

It’s interesting that you say that, because I’ve never thought of it in terms of consent until you said that. But that is really, I mean, that is really what we look for as teachers is that like openness to learning. So it is kind of fascinating.

We’re getting off the train of celebration a little bit, but just linking teaching to coaching even more so than then you and I thought. Like all of these parallels are very similar.

Lindsay: Yeah, you really are just a coach for little kids. Which is funny because in the coaching industry there is, and I’m going to get this wrong, so there’s probably coaches listening who are like, “That’s not right.” But there are coaches who coach teenagers. And I don’t think that they’re really, and I might be wrong about this, I don’t think that there are really coaches that do actual coaching for little kids.

And the reasoning behind that is like there’s something developed in the brain at a certain age around like 12, 13, 14, somewhere along those lines, where they really start to be aware, like more aware of, oh, this is the sentences forming in my mind, right? These are my thoughts, like this is a thought that I’m having, not just like this is just like the reality of the world.

And it’s interesting thinking about that, because it’s like, oh, you are actually doing that, just in a different way for the way that they need it at that age.

Sara: Yeah. And we do, we talk a lot about brain science now in teaching, that’s newer. In the last one, I don’t know we talked about it a little bit when I was in college, so the last decade of teaching, probably. Brain science has come more to the forefront of education, which has been huge.

We talk about that a lot, like where they are developmentally and what they’re physically and mentally capable of. But they are, they’re very capable of telling us when they are not open for coaching. And they are capable of telling us when they are, like that girl today that I keep going back to that. That’s my celebration of the day, like super exciting. But that child wanted to learn from me, and so she was open to it.

She could have very easily thrown the cards in my face and said no. But it is, you know, in education kind of going back to that overall theme of like this unattainable, unreachable goal in education, it’s numbers. Like we have to set certain expectations for children for funding. And so the state makes these like arbitrary numbers, as teachers we say.

And it feels like we’re never going to get kids there, right? Like we’re never going to have our whole class there. We’re never going to have this, we’re never going to have that. So just those moments of those little pieces, like that’s huge.

Lindsay: All right, so this has been so fun. This is like, when I was like let’s do this, I really wasn’t 100% sure what we were going to get into. And I feel like this has been so impactful. Every coach must listen to this because I think it is so interesting to hear so many similarities and the importance of what you do, the importance of what we do, and how it kind of ties together.

Sara: Yeah, I agree. And I think, like I said, just for them to realize that what they’re doing matters. And what is that one thing, one thing that you did today that was better than yesterday or that made a difference for your own kid, your own husband, your own whatever, whoever it was. Your client, the person at the gas station working behind the counter. Like even if it’s not related to their coaching I think that just those mental notes of something that they’ve done positively that day can help continue them in that path.

Lindsay: Yeah. So great, I love it. Thank you so much for doing this. Is there anything you want to say that we haven’t talked about? Anything we’ve left out?

Sara: Oh boy, I don’t think so.

Lindsay: Normally, this is the part where I’m like, if you love this coach, go find them. Here are their links, here’s their social media.

Sara: Yes, well, someday I will be looking for career advancement. So we can do a new podcast then, you can see if any of your listeners have a job for me.

Lindsay: Perfect.

Sara: I am very passionate about bilingualism and multilingualism and equity and all of the things. So if any of your listeners are into those things and they just want to connect to someone or talk about them, I would be happy to do that. Or if any of your teacher listeners want to connect, they are more than welcome. You can put my email in your, on your page or whatever.

Lindsay: Love it. Perfect. All right, well, thank you for doing this. It has been so fun. And thanks for coming to my party.

Sara: Of course. Also, if anybody wants to know super secret information about Lindsay.

Lindsay: Oh boy, this might be edited out.

Sara: You can email there too.

Lindsay: Oh goodness. Okay. Well, great. We’ll end there. Thank you so much.

Sara: Happy Birthday though, since this will be on your birthday.

Lindsay: Thank you.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. see you next week.