Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills episode 75.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey coach, I cannot wait for you to hear what is about to happen. I’m just blown away. Blown away by this episode, not because of myself, but because of my amazing client. Maren Montalbano. I hope I said that right. I’m going to let her properly introduce herself and tell you who she is, what she does and why she’s here.

But basically, she blew my whole mind and did something that literally rocked my world. And I said, “Hey, I need you to be on the podcast right now. Every single coach needs to hear about this.” So that’s what’s going to happen. You’re going to hear about it. And my guess is you’ll probably want to take notes or listen a few times. Enjoy.

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Lindsay: Hello, I’m so happy you are here today.

Maren: I’m happy to be here.

Lindsay: I’m so glad. Can you introduce yourself for everyone listening?

Maren: My name is Maren Montalbano. I am a coach for musicians, I help classical musicians get to the next level in their careers.

Lindsay: I love it. And I happened to just stalk you on Facebook for just a second and I noticed that you maybe are an opera singer?

Maren: I am also an opera singer, yes.

Lindsay: So amazing. I was like that’s so cool.

Maren: Yeah, yeah, I’m an opera singer, I have three Grammys. I am also a coach and I started coaching when the pandemic hit and realized that I actually know a lot about the classical music industry and I can help other classical musicians navigate it.

Lindsay: That is so fun. I know several people who have Emmys, so now I’m just going to add it to my list, like now I know someone who has a Grammy. Secretly, I’ve always wished that I could sing like that. Like ever since I was little I’ve just always wished that I just naturally had that talent, and I definitely do not. So, just a little jealous. It’s fine.

Maren: You know what? It’s fine. And if what you do is sing in the car to the radio, then that’s wonderful.

Lindsay: That’s my favorite. All right, we’ll move on from that. That is not why we’re here. So I asked you to be on the podcast because I recently launched The Coach Lab, as most people probably know that are listening. And you joined and we had one coaching call, we had our first call. Now that we’re recording this, it was about a week ago. And I kind of gave you some homework.

I don’t even know if I was 100% serious when I said it. I mean, I was serious about the homework. But when I tell people what it is, they’ll know why maybe I was being a little sarcastic. But you just did it and like nailed it and blew my whole mind. And you posted on the page and I just immediately thought, “I’m having her on the podcast, we’re just going to talk about this.”

So for everyone listening, I don’t know much about you, this is like my first time really chatting with you and we’re just going to work it all out here with them listening.

Maren: Yeah. So when I got on the call, on the coaching call and I raised my hand and everything like that., I was actually stumbling over questions to ask. Like what do I want coaching on? And the thing that kept coming to mind was I had just had a coaching call with somebody who was asking me a lot of questions about the industry.

Like I said before, I do know a lot about the music industry and how to create albums and different steps that you have to do and that kind of stuff. And what I’ve noticed, really over the past year is that people come to me because of that, and then spend a lot of time basically picking my brain.

And what I want to do as a coach is I want to help them figure out their way, instead of giving them like the ABCs of how to do it. I mean, there are some ABCs and I can help them with some of it, but it’s so much better when they do it.

And you said, “How are you showing up?” Or you said, “How are you creating this result?” And I was like, it’s probably because I’m more comfortable in that place, I’m more comfortable just giving the answers. It wasn’t even that I wasn’t sure what coaching was, the thought that came to me was I don’t know if I’m any good at coaching and I don’t even know if I can coach or what coaching is.

So you said, why don’t you write down a whole bunch of different ways? Like, why don’t you write 100 ways of how you would explain coaching? And I was like, okay, I can do that. So I did.

Lindsay: And you literally did it.

Maren: I did.

Lindsay: 100 ways.

Maren: Yeah.

Lindsay: Okay, what I really thought you were going to do, and probably because this is maybe what I would do in this situation, is I may write down like 20. And I might think about it a lot. I would write them in my head, right? Like maybe I’d come up with 100 ways.

But you wrote down, and not even like short ways, like very detailed, some of them. Some of them were very simple, some were very detailed, and posted it in the group, a video flipping through. And my whole mind, I mean, again, blew my mind. I could not believe it.

Maren: Well, it’s so funny that you’re like, I can’t believe that somebody would do this. Because when you asked me like, why would you do that? Like people don’t normally actually…

Lindsay: Yeah, I don’t think most people would be like, “Yes, I’m actually going to write out 100 ways.”

Maren: I had, like, you know, there were two answers that I had that came up. One was very ego driven, that’s like, well, I’m an overachiever, so of course, I’m going to do it. I’m a classical musician and classical musicians are born and bred to just practice every single day and, you know, that kind of thing.

So, honestly, that was the surface level reason. But the real truth is that I coach classical musicians so I know that if I gave somebody an assignment like that, they probably wouldn’t do it. And the reason that I did this was that I was committed to becoming a better coach. And, I mean, that’s why I joined The Coach Lab too. Because I’m committed to becoming a better coach and I knew that this was a good way to make that happen.

And the reason that I knew that it was a really good way was when I sat down to do it. I had like tons of resistance. I think I sat down and I was like, “Oh, I have to go to the bathroom,” and then like, “Okay, I’m going to sit down.” And I started writing like one thing and then I’m like, “I wonder what’s going on on Facebook.” But I noticed myself doing that and I was like, “Oh, I don’t really want to be doing this. There’s something that really doesn’t want to go here. So I need to go here.”

So what I did was I was like, “Okay, how can I set myself up for success and actually do 100?” I got to about 20 and I was like, “Okay, well…” So on my notebook I wrote 21, I left it open on my desk and I left. And when I came back to my desk, there it was waiting for me. So I’m like, “Okay, well, I can at least write one more.” So I wrote down one more, and I wrote 22.

And so that’s kind of how it happened. I could do like three or four at a time, put it away, but I kept it open and looking at me. And as I was going about my days, you know, would have conversations with people. And because that was at the front of my mind, all of a sudden I would have conversations about what coaching is, and be like, “Oh, that’s a really good one.” And next time I saw my notebook I would just write that down.

So it was wonderful. And one thing that I found happened was I stopped worrying about having it be perfect, every single one being perfect. I’m like, “Well, I have to do 100. So some of these can just be kind of like blah.” You know, they’re tiny little phrases or something like that. Some of them are iterations of each other. So I’ll start to have a thought and then the next one is like a continuation of that thought.

And it was great because there is some movement, like my mind started shifting as I was doing this exercise. And that’s why it was good to do it.

Lindsay: It just gives me chills. I just feel like I’m going to, every coach that asked me, “But how would you say it? How do you describe what coaching is?” I’m just going to give them this assignment and see what happens.

Maren: It’s a great assignment.

Lindsay: But I just love it because this is probably, like some form of this question I get so often. And I actually have no idea how long you’ve been a coach, but even sometimes from people who have been coaches for a long time, especially when, similarly to you, they come in and like coaching people in an industry where they do have knowledge.

Like you know a lot about the industry, you can probably just tell your clients what to do if you wanted to. Which isn’t a problem, you can create strategy with that. But then the actual coaching piece is the part where you explore and you ask them questions and you search their mind instead of yours. And that’s exactly what you did for this assignment.

Maren: Yeah, it’s great. Yes, you should definitely give that as an assignment to everybody.

Lindsay: So anyone that’s listening, if you also have this question or if you think like, gosh, I just don’t know how to describe it. I don’t know what the difference is. My clients always think that I should tell them what to do, this is a good assignment, I challenge you to do it.

Maren: One thing that I did also was I started a list of things that coaching was not. Because, you know, I was doing so much of like, well, it’s not this and it’s not that. And I’m like, okay, well, let me just write down those things.

Lindsay: Oh, that’s so good.

Maren: So I was like, it’s not teaching, although there’s an educational element to it. It’s not consulting, although sometimes you can use strategy. It’s not therapy, although sometimes you’re working with the mind, so there is an element of it. So it was helpful for me to say that and then put it aside and say, okay, well, if it’s not that, then what is it?

Lindsay: I didn’t even know you did that, it’s like extra credit. Bonus assignment.

Maren: Yay! My inner straight A student is like, “Yay!”

Lindsay: Oh yeah, all the A pluses. You have like over 100%, because that extra credit just put it right over the top.

Maren: I do think, though, that being able to put it into my own words is actually the best because each person has their own way of coaching and their own way of explaining what their coaching is. And so that’s why there isn’t one dictionary definition of it.

Lindsay: Yes, so good. Okay, so I’m going to have you read some, I told you to pick some out. But first I think I want, and maybe since you know what they are, you can decide which makes more sense. I was thinking first we might dive into just kind of like what did you learn from doing it? Like what were the main things that you learned? Or we can start by reading them and go from there, whichever one you want to do.

Maren: Okay, let me tell you what I learned first and then we’ll go into them.

Lindsay: Perfect, yeah.

Maren: The biggest takeaway is that I can trust myself, like that is number one. I think I came into that coaching call thinking, “Well, Lindsay is going to tell me.” And by writing it all out, I realized, yeah, I know what coaching is. I know exactly what coaching is for me and I could probably write another, well, maybe not 100, but another bunch of ways.

Lindsay: Don’t make me challenge you. I’m just kidding, I’m not. You’ve done the assignment, you’re fine.

Maren: I basically have infinite ways of explaining it because I can trust myself. And I don’t think I fully trusted myself before, so that has been a big takeaway.

The other really huge one was the realization that telling people what to do by sort of like letting them ask me these questions of like, oh, no, just tell me what to do, whatever, I wasn’t serving them. And in fact that was people pleasing behavior. This is something I’m working on, right? And to notice that that’s part of that same pattern was super helpful because I really want to serve my clients in the best way possible. And sometimes serving them is not to tell them what to do.

Lindsay: And this was the perfect example, right? Because I could have told you, “Yeah, here’s how I say it. Here’s my definition.”

Maren: Yeah.

Lindsay: And I would have just pulled one out of the air of like probably 50 that I could come up with, right? 100, I’m sure I could come up with 100.

Maren: Yeah, you probably could, yeah.

Lindsay: But it would have just been like whatever came to the top of my mind in that moment because there’s no right answer. And you would have just taken it and thought like, “I’m so glad she told me.” And just carried on and not questioned it.

Maren: And I wouldn’t have moved forward, and I wouldn’t have had that realization that what I was doing was actually not serving my clients. So that’s huge. Like, it’s really, really, really huge. Just the awareness just by itself is huge.

This is something that I wrote down actually, we had a coaching call today and somebody on your coaching call was talking about tangible versus intangible goals. And I was like, “Oh, yeah, this is a part of it.” Right? Because I think there is a part of me that wants my clients to achieve their goals. Like the tangible ones, the ones where it’s like, “Oh, yeah, you created an album.” That’s the thing, right?

But along the way, they’re actually realizing things about themselves. They are having more self-love. They’re showing up better to like all of their relationships, not just in their careers, you know, like that kind of thing. And I think my brain tends to discount those because it’s focused on what’s the tangible thing? What’s the thing that I can write down and say in my marketing materials, you know, so and so did XYZ.

And really, it is important, like coaching itself, the intangibles are just as important, if not more important than the tangible goals. And so why am I discounting it? And writing down all of that stuff really opened that up for me as well.

Lindsay: I completely agree. And I love that we talked about that on the call today because it is so related to what we’re talking about right now. I just think it’s the difference between, you know, I’ve talked about this on the podcast, where it’s like if you can Google it, what’s the value? Why would you pay a coach so much money, X amount of money, however much a coach charges, to figure it out?

And to me, it’s the difference between Googling it and just going through some steps and seeing like, can I do this thing? Versus learning a skill for life and learning to, exactly what you said, trust yourself, love yourself through the process, deal with anything that comes up, failure, negative emotion, like all the things. Instead of just like, yeah, give me the five steps and I’ll just go do it.

Maren: Exactly. And you know what? Sometimes people are at the point where they just want to know what the five steps are, and they’re not going to take the coaching. They don’t want the coaching.

Lindsay: Yes.

Maren: And that’s okay, too. I think that that’s something that’s really important to realize, though, because there are a lot of people who are like, “No, no, no, but you need the coaching.” If they’re not ready for it, it’s not going to help.

Lindsay: Yes, yes, yes, completely agree. And I think, you know, there are coaches too, who have, even if you think about The Coach Lab, right, it’s like I teach very specific things in there. It’s not just me doing videos saying like, well, what are your thoughts about this, right? I’m teaching things. Some coaches, one on one coaches, have very specific strategies they use, they may have the five steps.

I think where I see coaches kind of getting stuck is the discounting the actual coaching piece, right? And thinking that piece is less important. or it’s not what my clients want, or they don’t understand it, or it slows us down or, you know, whatever the thoughts are, they’re all over the place. That has them showing up as like, “Okay, this isn’t really what I want to do. But I guess I’ll just answer the question.”

Maren: Yeah, can I just say something that might be a little controversial?

Lindsay: Please, I love it.

Maren: I feel like the coaching space, there are a lot of marketing and sales messages being like given to us. And some of those messages are, well, you have to have a process. Or you have to be certified. Or you have to, you know, whatever it is, right? And so I’ve only been coaching for two years. And I’m certified but I’m certified in NLP, it was a very short thing. And I don’t actually use NLP when I coach.

Lindsay: I won’t tell, it’s fine. It’s just us here.

Maren: So I don’t know that we necessarily need to be listening to all of those messages. And I think that part of the reason why we discount all of the inner work and the intangibles is that we are fed these messages so much. And that’s hard, I mean, it’s actually really hard to get away from it.

I think we as coaches, as individuals, just need to know our own value. And we need to spend a lot of time really writing down what coaching is to us, so that we can talk about it in a way that, you know, look, sometimes processes work for certain people, sometimes certification is great, and all of that is fine. But you don’t have to if you don’t want to.

So I don’t know, I’m not sure where I’m going with this except for I think that this is one of the reasons why a lot of coaches spend time trying to find a process instead of just working on their coaching.

Lindsay: Yes. So I actually teach in my mastermind, one thing we do is figure out their process. What they think that means, I think, sometimes is we’re going to figure out this like 20 step thing, and they’re going to know exactly what they’re going to do on every call, and have a whole, like all these strategies and all the things. And I’m like, no, it’s going to be three to five steps.

And the three steps might be, we’re going to set goals, you’re going to come to the calls every week and get coached. And then we’re going to evaluate how it’s going. Like that’s a process. And so I teach it that way because I’ve just seen so many people get held back by I need a process, right? Like I have to figure out my process.

And I always think when you’re a new coach, you don’t have the tools to figure out a process really, like that’s not something that you need to be worried about. So here’s your three step process, go do it.

Maren: Perfect. Yeah, I don’t have a process. I’m still figuring it out, you know? And doing it in a way where it’s exactly that, it’s like the first session is what do you want to achieve in the next six months? And then it’s every week checking in on that, and whatever comes up, we talk about it. That’s kind of it.

Lindsay: That’s a great process. The only reason that doesn’t work is when you’re thinking, “Oh no, I need a better process.” I actually just recorded an entire podcast about processes. So it’ll be out maybe a week before this or two weeks or something before this interview. So it’ll be interesting because that’ll come out and then they’ll hear us talking about this. But I completely agree. I think that’s the best way to go about it.

Maren: Yeah. Okay, I’m going to go into a little bit of a tangent.

Lindsay: Great.

Maren: If you need to edit it out, it’s fine.

Lindsay: I doubt it, go for it.

Maren: Okay. So I’m an opera singer and one of the questions I get a lot from people when I was teaching voice, which I don’t do anymore because I like coaching better, is how do I sound like you? And that’s the wrong question to ask. What you just said kind of reminded me of that. You don’t want to sound like me. I’m the only one who can sound like me. You want to sound like you.

Lindsay: Yes.

Maren: So when we work together, we’re going to work and try to find out what you sound like, what it feels like when you’re making these different sounds, when you’re singing these notes. And you have to figure out what your body is doing. And you have to figure out what makes you nervous and what doesn’t, you know, that kind of thing.

And so I think that that’s incredibly similar. It’s all about just finding your own voice, literally, if you’re doing voice teaching.

Lindsay: Yes, I was just thinking how interesting is it that you actually do the exact same thing, just you help your clients find their voice in a different way.

Maren: Yeah, it’s cool.

Lindsay: I love that, it’s so fun. I love it and I think that that’s such a perfect analogy because it is really the same thing, right? It’s like I say all the time, I don’t want anyone to coach just like me. I want you to figure out how to coach like you.

What are the questions you love to ask? How do you love to show up as a coach? Are you a tough coach? Are you like gentle? You know, like what is it? How do you love to be? Let’s do that. That’s going to feel way more fun for you when you’re coaching your clients, than thinking, “Oh, what would Lindsay say? How would she act right now?”

Maren: Exactly, exactly. One thing that I put on my what coaching is not list is a coach is not a voice teacher, is not a vocal coach. And one of the reasons why I put that there is that I was having a conversation with somebody about this. When you come in for a vocal coaching, like if you’re studying an opera, for example, right? You’ve got a role so you have to learn the role and there’s like arias that you need to sing.

And so you come to a vocal coach and the vocal coach will help you learn the aria. You know, you’ll get coached on your diction, you’ll get coached on your phrasing, and what does this scene mean, and all of that kind of stuff. And when you’re done, you say thank you very much and you go and you do the opera.

And there’s not very much internal change that happens. It’s very, very educational, basically, which is fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. But one of the reasons why I didn’t put it on the this is not what coaching is, is because, for me, coaching involves transformation. So actually, I think this is a good segue for me to do my top 10.

Lindsay: I was just thinking, yeah because when you said that I was like, oh, I bet that’s on the list. So yes, you can either just read them all and I can be quiet or, if you’re like, “Let’s talk about this one,” we can do that too. You’re just in charge here, you do you.

Maren: Okay, all right. All right, so the first one is, coaching is a process which leads to insights about your own thinking.

Lindsay: Agree.

Maren: The next one is coaching takes you out of an unresourceful state, like fear or doubt, into a resourceful state like joy or curiosity.

Coaching helps you discover the underlying thoughts you think about everything, and how to shift them to work for you. So I really like that one because for me, again, it’s about finding what’s under the surface. And that’s what excites me about coaching.

A coach will challenge you to create thoughts that serve your highest good. And so when I wrote this one, this is when my mind started shifting like, yeah, a coach is supposed to challenge you, that’s part of the job. So yeah.

And then the next one is having a coach is like having your own personal trainer for your brain.

Lindsay: Yes. Okay, I want to pause. First, wouldn’t it be awkward if I was like, “Nope, don’t agree with that one.” Which isn’t going to happen, I can already tell. I completely agree. But here’s what I want to ask you real quick before we move on, why did it feel important to you to notice a coach is supposed to challenge you?

Maren: Because of what I was talking about before, my people pleasing tendency. Which is, you know, like I’m very good at encouraging people. Like if you go to my Instagram, I do a lot of inspirational posting and that kind of stuff, which is great. It’s wonderful. But it’s also really, really important to push people when they need it. It really is.

Lindsay: So good. Yeah, I wanted to hear your explanation of that. I assumed that that’s why it was, but I wanted to hear it because I just think that’s so important for coaches to hear, right?

It’s not our job necessarily to keep our clients comfortable all the time. Not that we have to be mean or push them too hard or any of that, but if you’re a coach who finds yourself thinking like, “Oh, but it’s just uncomfortable to say that thing,” or “Maybe I should just tell them what to do, instead of just asking them a question.” Maybe check in with this.

Maren: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, coaching helps you transform into your favorite version of yourself.

Lindsay: Yes. Oh, I like that one.

Maren: Coaching is deep listening, which I think some people don’t know. That’s something that when I talk to people and they’re like, “Oh, it’s just like therapy, right?” I’m like there are some similarities. Mostly, though, deep listening, yeah, that’s where there’s a lot of overlap. But a lot of times, we just don’t have people who listen to us for an extended period of time, for like an hour, 90 minutes, or half an hour, however long your coaching sessions are. And deep listening is just by itself super transformative.

Lindsay: Yes. That is a skill that a lot of coaches, I think, don’t realize that they don’t have, the ability to just not say anything and just listen while your client talks.

Maren: This is something that I’m still learning, actually. There have been a couple of times where I’ve looked at things sort of in review, and I have thought, “Oh, I could have just kept my mouth shut and let them talk. And that might have been better.”

Lindsay: I do want to be clear before we move on, sometimes it’s really good to interrupt your clients as well. So this is not like don’t ever interrupt, just let your client keep talking and talking. It’s kind of a skill to learn like when is it useful and when is it not?

Maren: Yeah, I’m still learning.

Lindsay: So am I, we all are. It’s great.

Maren: Okay, this one is one of my favorites, and I definitely feel it with you for sure. Coaching is like a warm hug.

Lindsay: Oh, I love that one. It does feel, sometimes, like the warm hug that you need.

Maren: Yeah.

Lindsay: Sometimes it just feels like a little smack on the face, that’s fine too.

Maren: Absolutely. Okay, and this one I totally borrowed from you, on the road trip to your goals your coach is riding shotgun and helping navigate.

Lindsay: Love it.

Maren: Yeah, and I actually really love the shotgun analogy, because in the old days the reason why it’s called shotgun is that they would like ride these carriages like the Wells Fargo wagon or whatever across the prairie. And the guy sitting next to the coach driver was holding a shotgun in case something happened.

But it’s like that person there is there for safety, that person there is for navigation, that person is to help. They’re not driving, but they’re there to look and see what else is going on. I think that that’s a really, really, really good analogy.

Lindsay: That’s so good. You know I had to google that right after I said it on that video because I was like, okay, hold on, I think I know what this means, but let’s just check it out just in case. Don’t want to offend anyone, let’s look it up just to be sure. It made the cut, we left it in but, you know, can’t be too careful sometimes.

Maren: I love it. I love it. Okay, and then this one is the last one, coaching is showing up and holding space for someone, encouraging them when they need it, holding them accountable when they need it, and most of all being completely in service to the client and their growth.

Lindsay: Yes, so good. I just like get chills thinking about this and just knowing that there are 90 more.

Maren: Yeah, exactly.

Lindsay: 90 more, it’s so fun. And I love all of them, there’s nothing there that I would disagree with. Those were excellent.

Maren: Thank you. Gold star.

Lindsay: All the gold stars. How many do you want? I’ll just keep giving them to you. Okay, how long did it take you to make the whole list?

Maren: Okay, so the coaching was on Thursday and I think I finished it like two, three days ago or something. So it was like Tuesday or something like that. So it was like a five day process. And sometimes I would have big chunks where I would just like write down 10 or 15 at a time. And sometimes it was just two or three at a time. But I always left the next one open so that I knew that I wasn’t done.

Lindsay: That’s so great. That’s a great trick.

Maren: Thank you.

Lindsay: It’s just such a little prompt for your brain, when even just seeing it like, oh, yeah, that one’s available, I should write something in there.

Maren: Yeah, exactly.

Lindsay: I’m going to keep going.

Maren: Please do, yeah.

Lindsay: That’s so great. No, I just mean like, you know, telling your brain, like I’m going to keep going. This is actually a really good thought to have working towards any goal, just because I feel a little stuck right now doesn’t mean that I’m not going to keep going, right? Like I’m going to leave the next number open.

Maren: Exactly. Yes, I didn’t even think about it that way. But yes, that’s exactly what it is, just because I feel a little stuck right now, doesn’t mean I’m not going to keep going. It’s definitely like I wanted to finish it, this was just sort of me both nudging myself, but also like telling myself, I know you can do it.

Lindsay: So great. I love that you posted it in the group and that you didn’t just keep it to yourself because what an inspiration for everyone in the group to just see that and see all your answers.

And to know, like here’s my thought, I always just think this is kind of funny, when coaches say I don’t know how to say what coaching is. I know always I’m like, yes, you do, you just haven’t forced yourself to say it, to like find the ways. How do you want to say it, right? Because if you are a coach, of course, you know what coaching is. Of course you do, it’s in there somewhere.

Maren: Exactly. And I have to say, the responses to that post were so wonderful. You’ve got such a great community in that Facebook group, Lindsay. It’s been so much fun just going and seeing what people are posting, what questions people have, but also the encouragement that everybody’s giving each other. It’s cool to see people saying like, “Oh, this is so inspirational,” but then also people like going and doing something.

Right after that coaching, actually, somebody posted in the group, “How would you describe coaching?” And so there were a bunch of people who added their own. So it’s really, really cool that kind of, like everybody is bringing stuff to the table, and I love what you’ve created.

Lindsay: Well, thank you so much. I’m just so glad that you’re there. What an amazing addition you are to the community already. And the community is one of my favorite parts too. It’s so rewarding for me in so many different ways, partially because some of my clients are in there, right? So sometimes I see them answer questions and I’m like, yes, she learned so much in the mastermind or whatever.

And then to see people like you just being willing to do the hard thing and just keep going and figure it out. And I didn’t even know you were doing it and then you just posted it, so fun. And then, yeah, like the conversations where it is the brainstorming the community answers. It’s so good. It’s just all so fun.

It’s a new road for me, it feels like in my business. And I knew I was going to love it, I didn’t know how much I was going to love it. So I’m glad that you’re enjoying it.

Maren: Absolutely. Yeah, I definitely am. So here’s my plug for The Coach Lab for any of you who haven’t joined yet. There’s so much to be learned, so many people to connect with. And when I first joined, I like binged all of the modules, so now there are new ones so I’m like, “Oh my god.”

Lindsay: Now what?

Maren: Right, like okay, all right. But like I put time in my calendar to sit down and watch the videos. It’s so much fun. It’s like, I don’t know, it is like a big hug. But it’s like a big communal hug and you’re learning so much, not just about coaching but about yourself on the way. So again, it’s a no brainer for me and it should be a no brainer for you too.

Lindsay: I love it. Okay, before we finish, so that’s kind of like what I wanted to talk about, right? But I’m also just so curious, do you mind if I ask you some questions just about like how you got into coaching?

Maren: Yeah, go for it.

Lindsay: So how did you get into coaching?

Maren: So right before the pandemic I started working with a group that did group coaching for musicians. Well, it was the first time I had ever been coached and I was kind of blown away by the transformation that was happening within me. And then at the same time somebody had mentioned, well, you know, you could become a coach too. Like this could be conceivably another income stream.

And I thought, okay, well, that’s kind of neat. Let me explore that. I joined a mastermind in January of 2020 to just kind of learn a little bit more about it. And then March of 2020 hit and all of my gigs completely disappeared. So I didn’t have any more sources of income. I was forced to just do this. So I did.

And it was really hard. I mean there’s all sorts of stuff, like deciding that I wanted to coach musicians at the same time that I and all of the other musicians didn’t have any work was kind of a weird decision. I mean, if you look at it.

Lindsay: Yeah, that’s interesting, although they probably really needed some coaching then.

Maren: Yeah, they did.

Lindsay: Just maybe not for the same reasoning you were thinking maybe you would be doing it.

Maren: Right, yeah. And that actually ended up being the people that I coached in 2020 were people who really just wanted to talk through what was going on and figure out, you know, okay, well, if not performing, then what? And I just kind of learned as I went.

For me it was just jumping into the deep end and then learning how to swim. I read a lot of books and I had a coach, so I was able to kind of like lean on her. And then really, it was sort of mid 2021 that I decided, okay, well, the pandemic is not finished yet, so I might as well turn this into an actual career.

Lindsay: It is going to be finished soon though, right? Like any minute now it’s just going to be finished.

Maren: Yeah, it should be, right?

Lindsay: We’re just going to check it off and move on. I hope so.

Maren: I started treating it like a business, which it is. And I signed up for 2K for 2K. I was listening to Stacy Boehman’s podcast and that’s how I found you. I started listening to your podcast, and The Coaching Lab just came at the right time because I was like, you know what, I need to figure out what the heck I’m doing here. It’ll help me sell myself, but it’ll also just help me become a better coach.

And in the meantime, yeah, the pandemic is receding hopefully, fingers crossed. I’m like knocking on all the wood.

Lindsay: I know.

Maren: But I’m starting to perform more, I’m going on tour this weekend. Things are happening and the world is starting to turn again, and this for me, as a coach to musicians, is actually a really perfect time for me to be on my A game as a coach. Because now I’ve been spending two years talking a lot about coaching online on social media, so everybody knows I’m a coach. And now I’m starting to get people, they’re ready. They’re ready to start working with me.

Lindsay: Yes. So fun. I bet there are people who’ve just been watching thinking, “I can’t wait till I’m working again so I have money to hire her.”

Maren: Yeah, yeah, that is totally a thought that’s in my mind.

Lindsay: And, I mean, of course it wouldn’t just be their thought, they could hire you at any time. They could probably figure it out. But sometimes it is actually a little easier when things aren’t so uncertain, right?

Maren: It’s true, it is true. And in the meantime, I want to just show up and serve and give value, even if they can’t afford it. And that’s something that, again, I’ve been working through all this. I, myself, have my own scarcity mindset that I have to notice and then work around and work through.

Lindsay: Of course, we all do, right? We all have it somewhere. It’s like this is not like an all or nothing situation. I have thoughts that sometimes I’m like, “Oh, that’s an interesting thought. Where did that come from? That’s not going to be useful here.”

Maren: Totally.

Lindsay: And we just have human brains, that’s what happens.

Maren: Yeah, I mean, I loved both your podcast about what to do when things go really well, and also when things go really badly. It was like super, super helpful because I’ve been in those situations, and I’ve been in those situations as a performer. So I can actually take that and go like, oh, it’s just like this, right? I’ve told you I’ve won Grammys, right? So like, it took three Grammys for me to realize that that wasn’t a fluke. Okay?

Lindsay: Yes, oh, I’m actually like maybe good at this.

Maren: Yeah.

Lindsay: They keep giving me awards, I don’t know.

Maren: Like you said, it’s so weird.

Lindsay: So weird, they’re confused.

Maren: So I think it’s work that all of us need to do. And it’s so helpful to hear it from somebody like you, because I know I can relate so, so much, and I think there’s so many other people who can relate. We’re all humans with human brains, and we are also capable of so much greatness.

Lindsay: So good. And listen, just because I share this stuff doesn’t mean that all the other coaches aren’t also going through it. It just kind of matches my positioning, it’s just who I am. I can’t help but share the things because for me it feels so transformational sometimes, like when I hear one of my mentors or someone who I respect say, like, “Oh yeah, and this was really hard.” I’m like, “What? I assumed it was so easy for you. What’s happening?”

Maren: Exactly.

Lindsay: I actually just texted my friends the other day, my colleagues and I said, “You guys are never going to believe what’s happening right now.” And they were like, what? And I was like, “People are still buying The Coach Lab.” It’s like my brain keeps thinking like, “Oh, but okay but here’s the end. But no, here’s the end for real. Now we’re really at the end.”

Maren: But surely it’s a fluke, right?

Lindsay: Yeah.

Maren: Surely.

Lindsay: It’s just so crazy. Yeah, people are still buying, they’re still joining, it’s so fun. Everybody listening should definitely come join us.

Maren: Yeah, it’s super fun.

Lindsay: Okay, so speaking of, you mentioned social media, where can people find you if they’re like, “I just want to be inspired and see all the things?” Where can they find you?

Maren: Yeah, you can find me on Instagram at super Maren, so that’s S-U-P-E-R-M-A-R-E-N. That’s where I spend most of my time. A lot of times I post stuff about things that my clients are going through, which is mostly imposter syndrome, perfectionism, that kind of stuff. But also I post videos of me singing. So if you want to hear what I sound like, you can go there.

Lindsay: They’re pretty amazing, I listened to some.

Maren: Thanks. And you can also go to marenmontalbano.com. M-A-R-E-N-M-O-N-T-A-L-B-A-N-O.com.

Lindsay: And we will link all the things too, so if someone didn’t catch that and they need it, it’ll be in the show notes.

Maren: Perfect, yes.

Lindsay: And what else? Did we miss anything? Anything else you want to say? Anything you want to share?

Maren: Yeah, I mean, especially if you know any musicians who are looking for coaching, who are ready for a next step in their career, send them my way. But even if you’re not, just come and follow me and DM me. I’m totally happy to just hang out with people. I like people.

Lindsay: So I love it. Do you coach all musicians? Like all types of musicians or just singers, just opera singers? How broad is your niche?

Maren: I coach all musicians, however, most people who come to me are classical musicians. I’m much more knowledgeable in the classical music industry than others. But I have coached some folk singers. So yeah.

Lindsay: Okay. I could see how, well it goes back to what we were talking about, right? If you’re not giving them the 10 step plan, it could be any type of musician and you would nail it.

Maren: Exactly, there you go.

Lindsay: All right. Anything else?

Maren: That’s it. Thank you so much for having me on.

Lindsay: Thank you for coming on. And this was like short notice. And you were like, “Yeah, I’m going to make it happen, let’s do it. It’ll be fun.

Maren: And it has been.

Lindsay: Love it. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. see you next week.