Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills, episode 54.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hello friends, hello coach. So today we’re doing something a little different. I was having a conversation with my colleague, my incredible colleague Simone Seol. And we were just having a conversation amongst friends and then decided, “You know, we should make this a podcast.” So we did. And here it is.

This is Simone and I talking about things that coaches get distracted by in their business. Something that takes away from your marketing, which is what she is a genius at. Something that sometimes can take away from your coaching skills when you think that it’s actually doing the opposite for both.

And I just want to give a little disclaimer ahead of time that we do mention things like Human Design. And I think we make it very clear in the episode but I just want you to know this is nothing against Human Design or any other method that you might use as a coach that is similar.

So I just really, really want you to know that going in. If you practice Human Design in your coaching business, that is not a problem at all. We are really just diving into more the idea of things that you guys get distracted by and Human Design just happens to be one of the examples.

So, I hope you love the episode. We had so much fun making it and we think this will be a huge help for all of you.

Simone: Depending on where you’re listening from, you’re either on the Joyful Marketing podcast with Simone or…

Lindsay: The Mastering Coaching Skills podcast with Lindsay.

Simone: Because this is a conversation with the two of us together.

Lindsay: Yes. And we’re already messing it up. We got on, we were like, “Wait, did we make any decisions about this?” It’s so good.

Simone: So whether you’re here to improve your coaching skills or to improve your marketing skills, I think that this episode is going to be so, so deeply useful for you because Lindsay and I are talking about something that we’re both passionate about, and we were like, “Oh my gosh, we totally have to bring this to our people.”

And we were just chatting about how we’re both having incredibly allergic days. So if we sound nasal-y of if we sneeze, you know what it is.

Lindsay: Yep, just allergies.

Simone: Do you remember how we started talking about this? Oh, I do, but now I’m afraid to say it because people are going to be mad. Because we started talking about Human Design.

Lindsay: Yes. Well, it’s okay, we can talk about that. I have no problem. I’ll out myself.

Simone: We’re going to be really rude. Hopefully you won’t be offended. We were just chatting about how we both are so annoyed by Human Design. And I want to preface this by saying listen, I have so many friends and clients who love and champion Human Design, and I totally believe in what you’re doing. It helps so many people from what I’ve seen. You take over.

Lindsay: I’ll say it. Let me take over. I think where my brain goes with it, why I have a problem with it, it’s not actually Human Design that I have a problem with. It’s when coaches get into coaching and then they see other things and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, and I have to do this, and I have to do this, and I have to do this.”

And Human Design, again, nothing wrong with Human Design on its own. Like you said, I think it’s amazing, I’ve seen people have amazing results. I’m really actually intrigued by it personally. What I don’t like is when coaches get very distracted and instead of making money, starting their business, it becomes– For whatever reason, Human Design on its own kind of becomes all-consuming is what I’ve…

Simone: Just in this moment in time. Right now, it’s Human Design from what we’re seeing. And again, I want to really reiterate, I totally believe that Human Design is awesome. It’s not actually about that. It’s just that at any different point in time there’s usually something that is all the rage.

There’s usually the one thing that now all the coaches have to know about, and one thing that now people are promising this is the thing that’s going to unlock everything else. And this is the bandwagon that everybody has to jump on. And that is actually what we were annoyed by. Not actually Human Design, because I don’t think either of us knows enough about it to actually be annoyed by it.

Lindsay: 100%. I would say it’s also just like personality tests and EFT and just any of the things. I could give a whole list…

Simone: Myer-Briggs and…

Lindsay: Meditation, breath work. All the things that coaches can be distracted by. Some of the things are amazing tools. And I teach this where it’s like, they’re amazing tools if you really see a need for it, maybe you add it. But doing it from a place of– This is what we’re talking about, but just doing it from a place of abundance instead of thinking I must have this tool or I can’t be a coach.

Simone: So we talked about this and we were like, this is so important for people to know, and then we decided to call it method constraint. And Lindsay said she teaches this a lot in her mastermind and I think I haven’t consciously taught it, but I’ve had a philosophy of it for a long time. And you can jump in Lindsay whenever you want.

But the way I see it, method constraint is about having intentional approach to deep cultivation of the tools and methods that you already have. And intentionally trusting them to be enough and really gaining mastery over them, and really placing the value on that. As opposed to always having shiny object syndrome, like, “I need to add more tools to my toolbox, know more methodologies, more philosophies, more this and that before I can be a good enough coach.”

Lindsay: Yeah, when you were saying that, I was thinking how true this is. I just teach constraint all around, but even when you think about marketing, it’s the exact same thing. It’s like if I decide I’m going to market my business organically and then I give it not very much time and then I’m like, “It’s not working, I have to go find this new thing.” And then that’s not working, I have to go find this new thing.

It’s just never allowing the time for the thing, whatever it is that you’ve chosen, to work. And to have just a deep understanding of this is what I’m doing.

Simone: So I have a question for you. I think most coaches, they start being coaches because they’re really passionate about the one paradigm, the one tool that they–

We all start with the first thing that we learn and we’re really excited about it. And we do some really great work with it, and then when is the time, Lindsay, where you see coaches really kind of getting antsy and thinking that they need to add more and more and more?

Lindsay: For me, I see it show up two ways. So one way is they really almost become immune to it. Like, “Oh, this is just so easy.” It’s like you learn–

Simone: When you like take it for granted almost?

Lindsay: Yeah, where you learn one method, I know for me, I learned just a very basic mindset coaching. It changed my entire life. And then I remember as I kept going I was like, “I need to learn all these new things.” Luckily, I had someone to tell me, “No, you don’t need to do that, constraint, come back.”

And I think that’s kind of what it is. The newness wears off and it just– As a coach, when you’re like, “I’m used to this thing, now I have to find the new thing.” Instead of creating a deeper understanding of the one that you already know.

Simone: I think people hit that block of like what I know isn’t enough, when the newness wears off, yes, and also when they hit– Let’s say maybe they had a client session that felt kind of weird and they’re like, “I’m not sure if I actually helped that person.”

Or they sign a new client and it feels like this new client is not getting the one tool, the one thing that I really believe in that works so well for me and my other clients. Haven’t you seen a lot of these times is when the doubts come in and people start to get antsy?

Lindsay: Yeah, when I said there were two times, I think that was the other example I was going to give. When something happens in your business, you’re coaching your client, and for whatever reason, you might have a client that just has a little more resistance than your other clients, or just maybe even their personality is different. But for whatever reason, you make that mean, “I need more tools, I don’t know how to do this.”

Simone: Yeah, or your brain tells you like, “You thought you were a good coach but you’re not a good coach because you only know this and you don’t know these other things.” Whereas I think, first of all, like, “Oh, that was a bad coaching session, you’re a bad coach.” that is never a circumstance. That’s always a thought.

And also, I think that in the lifetime of a coach’s career, you’re always going to encounter those moments no matter what you know and how much you know. Just because that’s what happens when you grow in your skill set of anything.

If the only skill set you had in the world was to be a potter and you made pottery, that’s all you ever did, you would still always encounter, “Oh shit, I’m a bad potter, I’m bad at this,” over and over, as long as you’re growing in your skill in pottery. That’s a thing, right?

Lindsay: That is the most random example and I love it so much.

Simone: I just feel like it’s a really straightforward– Watch, I’ll get all these comments from actual potters being like, “It’s actually a very complicated skill set.”

Lindsay: Well, I’m sure it is. But I love that analogy, it’s like for anything, when you are very good at one skill or you’re focused on one skill, doesn’t matter how amazing you are. You’re still going to have an off day. I say this in my mastermind. I’m like, literally, this is what I teach, and some days my brain says, “You’re a terrible coach.”

Simone: And some days, you’re going to have a client who’s like, “You’re not helping me.” Or “I’m dissatisfied with the coaching, I don’t think I’m making any progress, this isn’t working for me.” That is happening, not because you need more tools, not because you’re a bad coach, but because that is just what happens in a coach’s career. It’s something that’s going to happen over and over. It’s not you and it’s not your lack of tools.

Lindsay: And I think when you look then outside of what you already know, where it’s like, “I don’t know how to coach this client, let me go find this new thing, let me go learn this new tool.” It prevents you from the actual learning you could have in that moment, which is how do I coach this client?

Simone: With what I have.

Lindsay: With what I already have, yes. How do I use what I already have and be an amazing coach for this client?

Simone: That’s so important and so brilliant. I want to just notice when your brain says something something isn’t enough. Because I’ve heard so many coaches around me say, “Thought work isn’t enough.” Or whatever else.

I mean, I guess other people say that about other modalities as well. But because I hang out with a lot of thought work people, I think people also have reactions to thought work like thought work isn’t enough. So think about the frame of mind it puts you in as you go and learn other things.

Because you’re going and learning other things from a perspective of wanting to fill a hole and kind of a perspective of lack and scarcity in your own confidence and skill set, as opposed to thought work or whatever it is, is enough and it is all I ever need to help myself, help my clients, and I’m enriching my toolkit, my skill set by going and learning this other thing.

This isn’t a debate about oh, it’s not working enough, you need more. But just consider the difference between believing in something enough to want to really create mastery of it, and knowing that that is your path, as opposed to diversifying your intention.

And this is by no means me saying don’t go learn other things, don’t enrich your skill set in one modality by learning other things. But it’s the energy that you bring to the learning that’s going to affect how you learn it and how you practice it too.

Because guess what, if you have the thought, “Thought work isn’t enough,” and you go learn five other things, guess what? At the end of that experience, you’re going to look back and think, “Oh, now I know these six things and that isn’t enough either and I need to go learn even more.”

Lindsay: Yes. It reminds me a lot of what I see some coaches do too, where it’s like, I’m not really sure how to solve this one offer so I’m going to create 20 more. And they just never learn how to sell the offer and it’s just this very confusing business. It’s always evolving, always changing.

It’s kind of the same thing if you think about it. If you know one method, you learn one method, forcing yourself to get really good at it and go deeper as opposed to going out and finding the 20 other things is going to promote so much growth in you. And it really is going to show you, oh, this is enough.

Simone: The blunt way of saying what you just said is it’s not any of these other things, it’s your lack of skill. It’s not because of your niche that you’re not selling. It’s not nobody is buying in this niche, or it’s not because nobody wants to buy at this price point, or nobody wants to buy this particular structure of an offer.

It’s that you are not yet skilled enough in selling it in the amount that you want to. So then if you can’t blame the offer, if you can’t blame the niche, if you can’t blame the social media platform algorithm, then the only thing you have to blame is your own skill at selling and marketing.

And I think that’s kind of what we run away from because we think, “I’ve done everything I could, I don’t know how to improve my own skill in selling what I have, so I’m going to create a new offer.” Just like, “I don’t know how to improve my own skill in thought work and I don’t want to look at that because that feels like somehow the last place to go. So I’m going to look and blame the tool and find something else to learn.”

And just this sounds kind of mean, but I’m saying this in the most loving way, what if the problem is always me and never the tool? Of course, there’s no problem with you, there’s nothing wrong with you. But it’s just the level of skillfulness you are at right now, where every time you encounter a challenge, every time you encounter an obstacle, you’re just being invited to get better at it.

To apply a more nuanced application of it. To take a different approach to the same thing that you know, to take a step back and think, “Okay, how can I apply the tool that I know in a different way, a better way, with more consideration for the content?” Whatever it is, right? It’s not the tool, it’s your level of skill.

Lindsay: Yeah, and that doesn’t have to be a bad thing. I see this in my mastermind where people come in sometimes and they judge themselves. They’re like, “No, I don’t want to actually look at this place where I don’t think I’m the best coach.” I’m like, that doesn’t make any sense at all. It’s literally why you’re here. You don’t need to judge yourself because you have this area that you want to improve.

Simone: That’s where you want to stop and hang out.

Lindsay: Yes. And I think that that is probably the genius of what you and I both teach in different ways, in different areas. But it’s like, that’s half of what I teach sometimes, I think. Because I’m like, “No, no, no, come back. This is the place where you want to just park for a while and really deepen your level of skill.”

Not because anything has gone wrong, but because this is literally how you learn anything. You’re not great at it, and then you get better, and better, and better. And it doesn’t have to be a problem.

Simone: And I think that’s such a less sexy, less shiny, less fun approach than jumping around from thing to thing. Really looking at where you lack skill, really looking at where you’re lacking belief, really looking at where you’re feeling discomfort.

And not running away from the discomfort and just allowing that and being there and saying, “Okay, what if the only reason I’m here is so that I can get better? Because I’m here to learn.” What if that’s the only reason the discomfort is happening? Not because I need to change course, switch strategies.

Lindsay: And I will say just in case anybody else– I don’t relate a lot to when people say shiny object syndrome, so I want to say just in case anyone else– Because this is a sneaky one. Because I’m like, no, I like constraint and I don’t like to– I’m not like, “Ooh, this. Ooh, this.” Of course I can sometimes.

But for the most part, that’s just not a path my brain likes to go down. You know me. Less is more, all the things. But where my brain takes me is I love to learn. I love to learn new things. New skills, it’s like more gold stars. It’s kind of a different, sneaky way of thinking about it where…

Simone: I hear coaches say that all the time, “It’s not that. It’s not shiny objects, I just love learning. Shouldn’t we always be learning and always be getting better?”

Lindsay: Yes, it’s very sneaky. I mean, it’s the exact same thing, it’s just when I hear that term, I’m like, “I don’t know.” So just in case anyone else was thinking that, I just want to show you there are other ways to think about it. Your brain is still doing the same thing.

Simone: How would you counter if coaches say, “But isn’t it good to learn? Shouldn’t we always be adding to our arsenal?” Or if it’s a marketing client of mine that’s like, “Shouldn’t I be branching out to Clubhouse and YouTube or whatever?” How would you respond?

Lindsay: There is sometimes this fine line where it’s like really examining the reason that you’re doing it. And I always say are you doing it from scarcity, from lack, from I need more skills in order to be a good coach. Or are you doing it from I have mastered this skill and I’m so excited to learn this other thing.

I don’t need it. I could definitely build my entire business around this one thing that I do, and I’m adding this. It can be really sneaky, you just have to be on to your brain.

Simone: You know what’s so funny, Lindsay? One of the very first tools I learned in my training was actually EFT. I was so young, I was 22 and I learned EFT. And I learned for the first time in my life that I can change my emotional state and my thoughts by just doing EFT.

And I remember at the time my teacher said, “Imagine how many lives you can change just with EFT. Imagine everybody knew the power of being able to change your emotions just at will with this one tool that’s free and takes 30 seconds to do.” And in that moment, I so deeply believed her because she believed herself. I was like, “Oh my gosh, EFT can change the world.”

And since then, I’ve learned so many new things but I never forgot the kind of magical feeling that I had knowing EFT, feeling like I had a superpower. So for example, if you know thought work, do you feel like you have a superpower? Or do you feel like, well I just know this one thing?

Because if you feel like oh, I just know this one thing, like blasé, what Lindsay was talking about, you almost take it for granted. What it means is not that you need to go learn something else, but probably that you stepped out of the magic of it and you need to step back into the magic of it.

Lindsay: Yes. And one way I see that kind of showing up for people is they think, “Oh, it’s too simple, this is such a simple tool.” And I’m like, “Well, then you’re not doing it right.” I mean, it might be simple, but it’s not always easy. And so if it feels too simple and it just feels like this is easy, it doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t apply to all situations, then dig a little deeper and see what happens.

Simone: It’s so interesting to me whenever people say the model is too simple or the thought work is too simple because you know, Lindsay, you and I were in this very high level mastermind with multiple six-figure, seven-figure coaches and when we peer coach each other, it’s always like, “Okay, let’s write down a model.”

I think that’s a circumstance and not a thought, or vice versa. And it’s like, that thought just created your result. I think we do the most advanced work because we take the simplest tools and stay really true to them and go really deep with them. Wanting complexity, I think, can be a form of escape.

Lindsay: I think one of my favorite words to use when I’m talking about this is nuance because I think one thing to really lean into is how can there be some nuance to this one tool that I know?

So for example, sometimes when people talk about thought work, they think, “Well, but for a lot of situations that just doesn’t apply.” Or, “It’s not the right thing to use, you can’t just go around telling people it’s their thoughts.” I’m like, “Right, you shouldn’t be saying that.” That’s not actually what we’re doing here.

Simone: Yeah, that’s not actually the application of this work.

Lindsay: So let’s find some nuance in it. Let’s think about if you can’t ever say those words, if you can’t actually say to your client, “That’s just a thought.” If that’s off the table, then what else do you have to say? How else do you explain it? How else do you show them? How do you use their brain instead of just you telling them, “Oh, I see this as a thought so I’m just going to tell you.”

Simone: I love what you always teach too, Lindsay, which is your clients are just human. You have to see your clients as human before you see them as coaching clients. And you have to pay attention to their body language, you have to pay attention to their facial expression.

In other words, you have to really be present with the whole person. Sorry, you can hear my baby crying.

Lindsay: No worries.

Simone: And being present with the whole person is going to make you talk to them differently and notice different things about them. Which is going to make you do thought work with them at a totally different level.

And the thing is it’s the ability to really be present with another person in a really clean way, where you’re really seeing them as human and really caring for them and really seeing them in their highest potential. And then being able to tease out where they are right now and find the thoughts. That takes a lot of care. It takes a lot of high-quality presence, and that is what is going to save your coaching session every time. Not a different tool.

You know how we were just chatting before the recording started and you saying your mastermind people come in expecting that you’re going to teach them all these new dazzling things that they’ve never heard before, but in fact, it’s…

Lindsay: Not this. You can’t tell people that I don’t actually teach them 100 new things.

Simone: Oops.

Lindsay: I’m just kidding. Tricked you.

Simone: But what actually ends up happening is you’re like, “Okay, so how do we get confident with what you already have?” I think that is the most sophisticated, most nuanced way to go about it.

Because here’s why; it’s going to ask the most of you. It’s going to ask you to allow the greatest amount of discomfort. It’s going to ask you to reach into more self-trust than you ever had before. It’s going to ask you to ask yourself what version of yourself you’re bringing to the coaching table, as opposed to how many things you can shove in your bag of tricks.

Lindsay: I just love this. I can’t wait to listen and take notes and just like, wait, these are the emails I need to write, this is it, she’s saying it, she’s marketing my thing. It’s so good though.

But no, it’s true. What’s so interesting is in the beginning of my mastermind I spend a lot of time helping my clients see that one of the biggest things they love to rush through is really creating awareness with their clients. And so we’ll kind of do these exercises where I have them practice really, in one session maybe never moving out of awareness. Just staying in it, which…

Simone: It’s so uncomfortable.

Lindsay: The model, it’s the unintentional model if that’s what people know. Staying just in that, seeing really how am I thinking, what are the emotions that are coming up, how is that affecting everything I’m doing? And just staying there. And they’re like, “This is the hardest thing that I’ve ever done.”

Simone: Everybody just rushes right past that and they’re like, “I’ve done thought work.” No, you haven’t.

Lindsay: It’s not sexy, right? It’s like, no, you want to get to the goal, the thing. The thing that you want, that’s the goal and it’s so sexy. But really, what I teach them is when you actually see the awareness, when your client gets it on such a different level, you don’t even have to create the, okay, exactly what is it that you need to believe to move out of it.

Simone: Awareness itself is enough to shift everything when you really, really have awareness.

Lindsay: Yeah, when it’s that moment of, “Oh my gosh, that is how I’m creating results right now. What? I didn’t even see it.” And then when your clients move forward, throughout their days, they see, they’re like, “Oh my gosh, these are the actions we were talking about.”

That’s where they actually notice it is the action line, where like, “Oh my gosh, we just talked about all of this. I have so much awareness, and now I see it’s showing up every day. This is what I’m doing.”

And it’s just such a different level of coaching than “Okay, now what do you need to believe to not feel crappy anymore?” You don’t need to rush out of it. We need to really be in the awareness. And it brings a lot of discomfort.

Simone: It’s also modeling to your client the most effective way to self-coach as well. Because your client is probably having the problems they’re having because they’re running around like headless chickens, just crazy, thinking from one task to another, one thought to another. And they’re never getting to slow down.

And when they sit with you, it has to be the one time of their week or whatever when they’re getting to slow down and when they’re not chasing the next high, or the next distraction, the next thing.

And, before I forget, the other thing I really wanted to mention is that when people get into shiny object syndrome or I love learning syndrome…

Lindsay: So funny, they’re opposite but exactly the same thing.

Simone: Is when they have a prospective customer or client come to them and say, “Hey, I’d love to work with you, I’m looking into working with you, but do you know Human Design?”

Lindsay: Oh man.

Simone: Or do you know hypnosis? Or I really want to work with somebody who–  And then you’re like, “Oh shit, I should go study it so I can go work with this new client.” And it’s so tempting. I so profoundly get the urge to respond to that by saying, “Okay, let me go learn it.”

But to me, that’s an issue of how you think about your own skills and your own business and kind of like selling to what you think the customer wants as opposed to having such deep belief in what you have. And if somebody were to come to you and say, “Hey, do you know Human Design and these other five things? Because I think I need all of those.” Having the confidence to be able to ask them like, “Why do you think you need all those things to get the change that you want?”

Lindsay: Yes.

Simone: I’m not saying argue with that person. Maybe they’re not the best fit client. But it’s all about having that groundedness in what you know and how much more effective that is when you’re selling, when you’re believing I have everything and anything that anyone can need in order to reach their goals, get the transformation they want.

And I just remember I believed this so deeply when I was 22 and learned my first three new tools and I’d worked with two people for free. And arguably, I’m a lot more skilled now than I was back then, but I think it was my level of enthusiasm and confidence about what I already had and believing the tool is enough.

The tool is so powerful, what I know is so powerful that I don’t even need to be experienced because the tool will do all of the work. I had so much faith in it and I think that’s what got me through all of the drama that then ensued in my coaching business that made me want to abandon it permanently, which I never did, thank goodness.

But I guess a lot of this is an invitation for you to fall back in love with your tools. When you really love your partner, somebody else can dangle five new people in front of you, you’re going to be like, “No, thank you.”

Lindsay: Yeah. That’s such a good analogy because…

Simone: I know, I just thought of it. Pretty brilliant.

Lindsay: Well, you can see other people and be like, “Yes, of course that person’s attractive. Yes, of course that looks exciting. Of course that relationship is amazing.” I could compare myself all day, I could want these things all day, but I don’t because I love my husband.

Simone: Such a good analogy, yeah.

Lindsay: And it doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with any of those things. It’s just my husband’s pretty great.

Simone: Let me extend this analogy. So some people are like, really happily, intentionally, ethically polyamorous, right? So then if you are polyamorous, this is akin to if you have a coaching practice and you use lots of tools.

And that’s very valid. I think I arguably use lots of tools and not just thought work. But that is like you deciding to be polyamorous because you think your partner is kinds of lacking and you think that you’ll finally be happy when you have the right person in the mix and you just keep dating people and keep adding people to the mix.

As opposed to knowing, no, my partner is perfect, I love them, and our relationship is amazing, and I want to add this new–  I’m so not polyamorous. I’m just guessing this is how it works.

Lindsay: This took a turn but I’m here for it. And I’m just going to keep going with this, it’s so fun. It’s also, because what happens when you think about tools and adding a bunch of tools and adding them from that place of I need more, it becomes– I see this happen with my clients where they get very confused about when to use what.

So just like in that type of relationship, if you don’t specifically choose it and you’re not like, “This is exactly what it looks like, I know what I’m doing, I know when I want to be with this person,” whatever, however it works, I don’t actually know. This is a very loose analogy.

But just even if you think about relationships in general, it’s like being with the one person versus deciding in the moment which one, who do I want to be with, that will get very confusing and just your mind is everywhere. You’re for sure not calm.

It’s just such a different experience than even if you decide down the road to add more tools, let’s say. We’re going to leave the people out of it at this point I think. Let’s just come back to the tools. You’re going to add more tools, but you know exactly when to use different ones.

I have a client who does do EFT and coaching and beautifully. It’s like she uses EFT and then some stuff comes up and then she’s like a magician. And then she coaches.

Simone: I bet she really took the time to be masterful at each thing.

Lindsay: Yes, which is very different than, “I need to learn all of these things and never master any of them.” Because then it truly becomes so confusing. I see it happen with my clients.

Simone: Sorry, I’m going to revisit the romance analogy just one more time because if you’re dating a whole bunch of people and you’re never sure who you want to be with in a given moment in time and you’re like, “Should I call this person? Should I call that one? Should I be with that person?” It reflects a relationship that you have with yourself where you’re looking for other people to fill a hole because you don’t feel good being on your own.

So now, the analogy to coaching is that look where you are looking for tools to fill a hole in how you think about yourself as a coach because you’re not believing that you just showing up, just your presence isn’t enough. You’d be so much happier in any configuration of romantic relationship if you knew how to feel sufficient on your own, so that you aren’t always scrambling for somebody else to fill that hole.

And think about how much more powerful you’d be as a coach if you believe that just you showing up for your client, your mere presence was enough. And who you, just period, as a coach is enough and you never needed to add anything, think about how much power is in that. I think that was worth bringing that back into.

You might have heard– This is a Steve Chandler thing that gets thrown around a lot, which I really like. If all you did when you had a problem was go talk to a lamppost once a week for an hour, every week, your problem would get so much better. That’s the power of just having someone to listen to your problems. Having someone to just give you their full attention. How much powerful is that?

And isn’t that coaching stripped down to the barest minimum? Just your presence. And how much less powerful that is when you’re sitting there thinking, “Uh-oh, I can’t serve this person because I don’t know duh, duh, duh.” In which case you’re being in your brain and your drama, instead of being present with the other person. Which is a skill that Lindsay teaches you in her mastermind.

Lindsay: Yeah, among all the things. I mean that’s huge, that’s definitely something that everybody works on in the mastermind no matter what level of coach they are. It comes up for everyone.

And one thing that really comes up when I have them really focus on awareness and spend time doing that with their clients, most of them report back that what makes it hard isn’t because it’s not working. Because they always say the client, it blew their mind, it blew my mind, we’re all in shock, what is happening, this is so great.

But one thing that makes it hard is that there’s more empty space on the calls. There’s more quiet. And their brain really wants to jump in and fill it. So it’s like, if I know more, if I teach more, if I whatever more, I’ll have things to say. And it’s just a very different experience when you just allow your client to think and allow there to be just a little bit of space. It can be a little uncomfortable.

Simone: Right. How many problems do we create in our lives just in general because we can’t stand the empty space?

Lindsay: So many.

Simone: And we can’t allow the pauses.

Lindsay: I always think about– This is so random, you might not have any idea what I’m talking about, but have you ever seen the things– I feel like I saw this in a psychology class at some point, where they put up a picture and its letters. And they’re like, “Okay, read it.” And you do. But then they’re like, “Now look carefully.” And you see that half the letters are missing.

Simone: Oh yeah, I know what you’re talking about.

Lindsay: I forget what it’s called, but your brain just fills it in. I feel like it’s an urge for your brain to fill it in. Oh, there’s empty spaces, let me just fill it in. And in that case, it’s probably getting it right or close to right or whatever.

But in our just lives, when we have those spaces, sometimes what is it filling it with? It’s just obsessive thoughts, anxiety, whatever. All the things that are happening, let me fill in the spaces. And I think it’s a skill to learn to just sit in the space.

Simone: Totally. And allow the discomfort of that. Brilliant. And I wanted to make sure I say this one thing before we close, bring it back to business and marketing.

And so I think that where this applies to marketing is a lot of coaches think that what is going to make their coaching enticing to clients is flaunting how many things they know, how many different modalities, what they’ve learned, where they’ve been certified. All the different things they’ve been trained in. Listen, I’m not going to mince words. Your clients don’t give a shit.

Lindsay: It’s true.

Simone: They really, really truly don’t care.

Lindsay: All I say always is just what’s the one thing your clients want? My clients are always like, they’re guessing all these things, and I’m like, “No, they want results. What are you talking about? They don’t want any of those things.” They don’t care what you know. They don’t care anything. They just want the results.

Simone: They want the result. They just want the transformation they came to you for. And a lot of the times, when you’re talking about all the things you know, you’re really talking about you and you’re not talking about the client. You’re not really thinking from their point of view and thinking about how you can lead them from point A to point B, towards the transformation they’re looking for.

And so that’s another way you can shift from for sure accidental self-centered thinking to truly client-centered thinking, which is going to make your marketing so much better. Clients don’t care how many different modalities and tools you know.

If you do know lots of things, which is amazing, I know lots of things too. The best way to let that shine in your marketing is to really speak to the client from your multifaceted awareness of their problem and your multifaceted awareness to the solution that you can guide them through.

It’s like of like letting what you know shine through in what you’re saying as opposed to saying, “I know X, Y, Z.” Does that make sense?

Lindsay: Yes. It’s like playing an amazing song instead of saying, “I know how to play the guitar, and sing,” and whatever else you can do at the same time. I don’t even know.

Simone: Yeah, just play the song and let that be the experience. So yeah, that’s one way this comes up in marketing. And you don’t even ever have to talk about the tools that you use because your clients don’t care. You’re probably going to lose them, it’s probably going to be boring for them.

Instead, just talk to them about where they are, where they want to go, and how you’re going to get them there. Those are the only three things you ever have to talk about.

Lindsay: Love it.

Simone: Fabulous. So method constraint. Lindsay Dotzlaf and Simone Seol recommend method.

Lindsay: Highly recommend. Five stars.

Simone: Five stars. Go deep with what you have and it might not be as sexy, but it is totally going to transform your client results and your business. Perfect. So I guess we don’t need to say where you can find us because if you’re on one of our podcasts, you know. But yeah, if you need to this is Joyful Marketing with Simone or…

Lindsay: Mastering Coaching Skills with Lindsay Dotzlaf. Just find us somewhere. We’re everywhere.

Simone: We’re everywhere, search for us if you can’t find us. All right my friends.

Lindsay: Bye.

Simone: Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. see you next week.