Ep #27: Curiosity, Coaching, and Marriage with Maggie Reyes

Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you are listening to Mastering Coaching Skills, episode 27.

To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hello loves. So, today we’re doing something a little different. I am just going to have a little vulnerable moment here at the beginning of the podcast and let you know what’s going on. But the podcast that was supposed to come out today, there were apparently some mic issues and it needs to be rerecorded. It’s an amazing interview. Don’t worry, that will still be coming up.

And have you ever just had a week where you feel like everything just comes crashing down all at once and all the things happen? So, I found out the podcast wasn’t usable. The next day, I got my second COVID shot, which has me feeling really terrible. And then this morning, I found out some really just heavy personal news and I’m just processing some emotion.

So, when it came to getting a podcast turned in today, because I knew I had a deadline, I was trying to decide what to do. And at first, I thought that I would just come up with something very quickly and record a quick episode for you. But when I think about my number one propriety for this podcast is to always deliver as much value as I can, I never want it to feel like I’m just throwing something together or just putting something out there just to make it happen.

So, what I decided to do instead is reach out to my amazing friend and coach Maggie Reyes, who you already know. I interviewed her on this podcast. And I actually did an interview on her podcast. And when I think about providing value for you, I just think this interview is so fun. She is a marriage coach. But even if you aren’t married, even if you don’t have a partner, there are going to be so many takeaways from this episode.

She has graciously allowed me to just share the episode that was on her podcast called The Marriage Coach Podcast. Go check it out. It’s amazing. She’s amazing.

And from a coach standpoint, whether maybe you’re a marriage coach or you’re a relationship coach or you will just have some takeaways from a coaching standpoint, and also, of course, there are going to be just takeaways that are probably things you can apply to your coaching and to your business.

And last, if you are new here and you don’t know me, this is also just a fun opportunity for you to hear kind of a different side of me. Because I am just showing up in this interview, she’s interviewing me, so I’m just showing up having fun, being a client, and the energy is just a little different than what I usually come to here on this podcast.

So, I hope you enjoy. Here is a replay of an interview I did with Maggie Reyes. Have fun.

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Maggie: Hello and welcome, everyone, to The Marriage Life Coach Podcast. We have a very special guest here today. Her name is Lindsay Dotzlaf. She is literally a coaching master. She is a life coach that helps coaches improve their coaching skills so they can be the best coach for their clients. She’s the creator of the Mastering Coaching Skills podcast and the Coaching Masters mastermind where she focuses on changing the world one coach at a time, which I love because here we change the world one marriage at a time. We’re all about one at a time. And she’s a mom to two sassy girls, one crazy dog, a disgruntled hedgehog and wife to one handsome husband. Welcome, Lindsay:

Lindsay: Hello. I’m so excited to be here.

Maggie: So, I asked Lindsay to come on the show because she’s one of my clients that I’m very, very blessed to work with. And I wanted her to just share her experience, share a little bit about our work together from her perspective. But first, I know that I introduced you and said a little bit about what you do. But will you just share with everyone – I know there’s a lot of people from a lot of walks of life who listen to this podcast and there’s a lot of coaches who listen. So, if you’re in a different profession and you’ve always wondered, how do coaches get trained? How do they get better at what they do? This is a little behind the scenes inside baseball on how we get better and what we do. And if you’re a coach and you’re listening to this, you want to immediately subscribe to Lindsay’s podcast and listen to everything she says. So, tell us a little bit about what you do.

Lindsay: I love it. So yes, I think you summed it up, changing the world one coach at a time. I love that you said that. That’s my favorite thing. And yeah, right now I’m so glad that you asked me to be here because my podcast has become – it’s kind of new. I think I just recorded my 20^th episode. And it’s my favorite thing right now. I’m having so much fun with it. So, of course, it’s really fun to also be on someone else’s podcast. And that’s really it.

I mean, I’m certified through The Life Coach School. I was actually a coach for a few years before I was certified. I grew my business first and then thought, “You know what? I just want to be really great at using some specific tools.”

So, I went and got certified and I’ve been in a mastermind with you, Maggie. And I’ve known you for – how long have we known each other? A couple of years?

Maggie: Two years now. Almost three, yeah.

Lindsay: Okay, it all, like, blurs together. In my mind, it’s either one year or maybe eight. I’m not sure.

Maggie: I love it. So, what made you decide to work with me on your relationship? What led to that?

Lindsay: So, I love that question because I think – you and I have talked about this. But when people find out that I’m working with a marriage coach, the first thing that some of them say is, “Oh my gosh, I had no idea that something was wrong with your marriage…” my friends, right? And my answer is always, “There’s nothing wrong with my marriage.”

But I’ve been married for, it will be 16 years in a couple months, and we’ve been together for almost 20 years. And how can you not improve on that. I mean, I’m learning so much.

Another thing that happened and what really brought it to light that maybe my marriage is where I want to put my focus over the next year, ultimately really over the rest of my life, was the pandemic and quarantine. And all of a sudden, I had no personal space. Everyone was home all the time. We have since moved, but at the time we were living in a very small house. So, it was my husband working from home, myself working from home. We moved my office to the bedroom. I was basically in the bedroom for 12 hours a day almost, not just working, but living the rest of my life.

And it was just kind of a crazy experience that I didn’t really create any new – problems isn’t the right word. But things that were already there, they just kind of bubbled to the surface and there was no really alone time to sort them out for myself. and so, one day I just kind of woke up and it was like, this, I’ve spent so much money on coaching in my business, and other things. I’ve hired lots of coaches. I love, obviously, love coaching. I think coaching is amazing. But really, my business could disappear tomorrow and I would still have my husband. That feels more important than almost anything else.

Maggie: I think it’s so beautiful to really be a voice for and really model for people that making your marriage better doesn’t mean you have to be in a crisis. You don’t have to be in a crisis to start working out. You don’t have to be in a crisis to start eating better…

Lindsay: To work on your coaching…

Maggie: To work on your coaching, exactly. You don’t have to be like, “Five clients quit, let me work on the craft of coaching.” You can just actually want to be better. And I think that it’s so important to really normalize both.

Of course, if you’re in a situation where you want help and need help and it is more of an emotional intense situation then get the help. And if you’re in a situation where it’s like, you know, “I know it could be better I know there’s something here for me that I can improve and I know that I don’t want 20 more years of this.” Doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s just like I know there’s more here.

And I love thinking about – and I’ve talked to you about this before, about how the craft of coaching is like acting, the craft of acting. Actors take acting lessons their entire career and that’s completely normal. What if coaches took coaching training their entire career and that was totally normal, and what if people worked on their marriage their entire marriage and that was totally normal. Wouldn’t that be amazing?

Lindsay: Yeah, and I think that was one thing I realized is, “Oh, I haven’t been actively working on my marriage and probably I should be.” Because I want to be. Just like you said, there really shouldn’t be a time when you’re not. And it probably looks different as it goes, but it was kind of like, “Whoops, here I am, I haven’t been focusing on this. That’s okay. I don’t have to beat myself up about it. But also, what do I want to do? Hire the best marriage coach I know, for sure.”

Maggie: I love it. I receive that. So, tell me two or three things that pop out of you of either an a-ha moment or something we discussed that helped you. I’m always interested because I’ll have clients come on it’s always something different every time. So, tell me a couple of those things.

Lindsay: Okay, I thought of a few before we got on here. And so, I know there are two. Maybe you’ll have to prompt me on a third. Or maybe it will come to me as I’m talking.

But one big one is I’ve really notice – and you’ll probably laugh at this but I’ve really just noticed that after 16 years of marriage, there were a lot of times I was just assuming that I could read my husband’s mind. That I knew what he wanted, that I knew what he would say if I asked him something, that I knew exactly every thought he had. And I wasn’t thinking about it like that, but there were just so many times that I came to you with, “Well, I’m wanting to do this thing. I want to hire a nanny. I want to go on this trip,” or whatever it is.

And you’re like, “Okay, what’s the problem?” And I will say, “Well, I don’t think that Nate will be onboard…” my husband’s name is Nate and, “I don’t think Nate will be onboard…” And like, “How do you know?”

“Wait, what? I just know. I’m psychic, that’s why.” And yeah, I just noticed how many times I was coming to you with those things. Then I started catching them before I would come to our calls, like, “Oh, I see what I’m doing here.” So, it was just like I was never even having – I was having conversations with him in my head that I wasn’t actually giving him opportunities to participate in.

Maggie: I think there are so many things there and I’m going to dig into that a little bit. Because here’s a couple of reflections that just came to mind. First of all, for every single person listening now, think about yourself the year you got married and think about yourself today. Have you changed at all? Is there anything you like now that you didn’t like then, that you were into then you’re not into now? All those things.

So, if we just look at ourselves and are like, “Oh I have all kinds of different thoughts and experiences now versus the year I got married,” perhaps our partners are in the same situation.

Lindsay: I was thinking about that before I hopped on here. I was thinking about this exact topic. And I literally thought, “Okay, besides my hatred of pickles, pretty much everything about me is different than when we got married.

It’s so crazy and not that I necessarily am thinking of him 16 years ago or 20 years ago, but I was also thinking about how when you’re first dating and – we were together quite a while before we were married, but even when you’re first married, you’re just so curious. That just gave me the third thing I learned. And yeah, it just feels like I was never curious at all. It was just like, “I know what he’s thinking.”

Maggie: Yeah, so it’s so valuable to just pause and ask that question, “Why don’t we just check?” You may be right. And many times we are. But there are some times our partners surprise us, sometimes in really delightful ways. And I think that’s one thing with coaching specifically. It’s not rocket science. It literally is just someone outside of the situation looking at it and just saying, “Hey, what about this? Let’s consider that,” just one question or one new thought around that same situation can be so powerful.

Lindsay: I mean, once I realized I was doing it, it was like, “Oh my gosh, I’m actually sometimes mad at him for these fake conversations that I’m having with him in my mind. That’s not fair.

Maggie: Okay, you and like a million other people, just so you know.

Lindsay: Oh yeah, I think this is part of the human condition…

Maggie: Exactly, we all have done that. And if we haven’t done that with our partners, we’ve done that with our bosses, with our colleagues at work, with a friend, with a family member where we just get mad at them ahead of time for what we think they’re going to say.

Lindsay: Coaches…

Maggie: Also can happen…

Lindsay: It does happen, right?

Maggie: Yeah, totally. What was your second thing? We’ll leave curious for the last. What was your second thing?

Lindsay: My second thing, oh my goodness, let’s go to curious and come back because that’s really distracted me. That felt like a big one, which is I have so many amazing skills that I use in my business – I remember the second thing now. There are so many great coaching skills that I use in my business that I had totally stopped using in my marriage. And not like actual coaching. Not like I forgot to coach my husband, no…

Maggie: We don’t do that.

Lindsay: Listen, friends, don’t do that.

Maggie: Correct. Cosigned…

Lindsay: You know, curiosity is a big one and you pointed it out to me that I’d just stopped being curious.

Maggie: Yeah, so Lindsay’s superpower is curiosity. It’s one of the things that makes her an amazing coach, it makes her an amazing teacher, it makes her an amazing mentor to all her students. And when I say curiosity, I mean nonjudgmental curiosity. She’s just like fascinated by the world.

And because she thought she knew everything her husband was thinking, she was a little less fascinated by him than she was by the rest of her life. I just was like, “Wait, this is your superpower. Why don’t we point that laser over here and see what happens?”

And what have you found – like what has been your experience? You’ve engaged your curiosity more? You’ve used it as a superpower more. And how has that impacted how you show up and how you think about things now?

Lindsay: So, I’ll give you two answers. The first one is really just the idea that it could just be that easy, like something I’m already good at, so it’s like anyone that’s listening that’s like, well marriage coaching might sound scary. Especially if you’re in a vulnerable place in your relationship, right? It might sound scary or heavy or like a lot.

It did for me, just the teensiest bit. First of all, Maggie takes all that away for you. But also, what if you’re just already good, you already have the skills, you’re already good at them and you just have to use them in your relationship with your partner?

Maggie: I love that. And you know that’s something I say all the time.

Lindsay: Yeah, from the other side too, I have found that the more curious I am with him, leading by example, the more curious he is about me and the more he asks me questions. And the more I find that I am so wrong about all of the things I assume I know.

Maggie: In the best possible way. So good.

Lindsay: Yeah, like I’ve been very surprised by things that I’ve been – I mean, mad is a strong word, but irritated or frustrated with him from these conversations I’ve had with him in my mind that he did not participate in. And then I have the actual conversation and being super curious. And his response is not the one I expected.

Maggie: Yeah, that’s beautiful. Okay, tell me the thing you remembered.

Lindsay: Okay, so the third thing is – this sounds so obvious, but it’s okay to want what I want. Which is something that comes up on pretty much every single call that we have. Not in a way that’s like I’m a brat and I stomp my foot and I just get whatever I want, but in a way, that’s like, “It’s okay for me to speak up for this is what I want, this is my opinion, this is what I want to do,” even if I know it might cause a little bit of discomfort for him because he may not agree.

Maggie: I love that you said that because so many of my listeners, basically the way I describe it is twist themselves into pretzels out of love, out of service, out of the desire to protect and comfort the people that they love, whether it’s their partner, their kids. And there’s this moment where if you do that for three years, five years, seven years, 10 years, 15 years, you’re so twisted into such an unrecognizable pretzel that you don’t even remember what you liked anymore. Like, do I like pickles? Maybe I do. Who knows?

Lindsay: No, that one is not in question.

Maggie: But that kind of idea, right?

Lindsay: Yeah, and if you had said to me on day one – I really want people to hear this too, especially if they don’t know me and don’t know anything about me. If you had said that to me on day one, I would have laughed at you and I would have said, “Maggie, you’re crazy. I am a boss. I speak my mind. I have opinions.”

It almost doesn’t match my self-concept of who I think that I am. And so, it was so – it was showing up so deeply ingrained in the tiniest, tiniest ways that it had just become like, “No, this part is just normal.”

It wasn’t even me realizing, like, “I’m not going to say my opinion because I don’t want to.” It was more of a, “Okay, I don’t have time for that. Let’s just move on.” That kind of thing.

Maggie: Yeah, it’s so fascinating and I love that you said that because being in charge in whatever ways we’re in charge in our lives, in our businesses, in our careers, we have sort of these automatic thoughts about ourselves that we think, “No, that’s fine because I’m in charge.” And then we dig a little deeper and slow down and see what’s happening, we find out, “Yes, you’re in charge in all these beautiful ways and all these other places.” But then over here, it’s like, maybe not so much. So good.

Lindsay: Yeah, so when I saw it, it was like, “Whoa, okay. I’m open to hearing this.” But I was a little resistant to it, I think, at first.

Maggie: And I think that brings a perfect segue to the next question, which is sometimes when you’re in a coaching situation, you find out something about yourself you’re not delighted to see. So, I always say I’m this type-A Cuban Leo sign person. And I’m kind of bossy.

And usually that works to my advantage and it’s okay. But sometimes it’s not. And it’s not fun to sort of see that reflection in the mirror. So, when you felt that resistance, obviously you worked through it. But what would you say to someone who might be afraid to find something they don’t want to see?

Lindsay: That is a really good question. I think – it also made me think of something else that I did see about myself that felt even kind of deeper than the example that we’re talking about now. But I think the beautiful part about coaching is that not only do you see sometimes things about yourself that you don’t now are there. But there’s also someone there to show you that it’s okay and to help you accept that piece of you. And maybe to show you, like, here’s why it’s there though. Like the reason I do that isn’t because I woke up one day and decided I’m not going to listen to my own opinions about things. First of all, it happened over a lifetime. But there are so many reasons that are deep in there that were very useful for me at some point.

Maggie: Yeah, that’s so powerful. I love that. So, one thing I want to ask you about, something recently that really called to me about the role of a coach and how if you’ve never had one before, maybe you think it’s just like having a friend that you talk to, which there’s an element of that, obviously. Or it could be someone who’s so tough that you just dread the experience.

And whether it’s coaching or therapy or any other kind of situation like that, maybe it’s meeting with a mentor at work or meeting with your boss where they’re either too nice on one side or too tough on the other. And you wrote something about the balance between the two just in your own work training your coaches. And I’d just love for you to share a little bit about that, especially for a lot of my listeners who’ve never worked with a life coach, they don’t know what that is, that balance between whatever we want to call it, tenderness and toughness or comfort and challenge. What are your thoughts about that?

Lindsay: Yeah, so I think the post that you’re referring to is I actually wrote it about you because it was something that I realized in a coaching session with you. And then it made me think about exactly what I teach my clients. Which is why I think you’re one of the best coaches I know. I didn’t teach you to be that way. You just somehow came to me already a magical coach.

Maggie: So, let me just tell you all this. So, when Lindsay was formulating her program and sort of behind the scenes I got to know a little bit about it. and I said to her, “Lindsay, I wish this existed. When I first started out, I had to learn all these things the hard way.”

Lindsay: Yes, I did too. That’s why I created it, right?

Maggie: Totally.

Lindsay: Thank you for that. But I do think the role of a coach – so what I wrote about was being loving and also tough. But what I mean by that is to me, in that circumstance, the definition of loving would be a coach that shows up with zero judgment, that just is there to hear the words that come out of your mouth and not judge you for them and just be a very neutral space where you can say whatever you want and they’re not going to say what a friend would say.

Which you might think of that as being loving, but sometimes it’s not, right? Because a friend might say, “What are you talking about?” or, “Why would you do that?” or, “How dare him…” you know. So, in coaching, that would be my definition of loving. And then also tough, which is, again, in coaching my definition of that would be showing up for your client in a way that is showing them how their thoughts are affecting the situation, how their thoughts come into play and not holding back. I think the trick there is being tough as a coach is being tough in a way that is only showing them their thoughts, never yours. Never, like, I can’t believe you did that. But there’s still zero judgment.

Maggie: Yeah. And I think of a marriage space, something that is very important to me, and is my thought about a lot of things is there’s no wrong reason to stay married. There’s no wrong reason to separate. It’s like, what are your reasons and do you like them?

And in a lot of other, sort of marriage situations, there’s a lot of sort of, whether it’s cultural values, or different narratives that we ascribe to whether something is right or wrong, or good or bad. And I kind of come into it with like, well, what is your growth? What is it we need to see that we’re not seeing? How will this help you? Whether it’s something that you’re disappointed by or something that you’re proud of, it’s always for your growth, and how does it help you?

As opposed to having a judgment around, well, this should never happen and that should never happen, with the caveat or the nuance. I love the nuance of it all. Which we do know, there are some things that make a relationship healthier than others and we know there are some behaviors that are more conducive to having healthy, thriving relationships than others. And if we can’t do those or engage with those, we just want to check in on why and what’s going on, right? Love that. Okay, so what is a…

Lindsay: Wait, before you move on, I just want to say you, you really are embodying more than most coaches that I know that perfect balance of tough and loving. And we were just talking about this the other day on one of my calls where I said I just love that sometimes I come and it does feel just like a little bit of a cuddle because I am already being hard enough on myself, which is one of my favorite things to be… hard on myself. And you know that about me.

And so sometimes, you know that I need like a, you know, like, why are you… why are you telling yourself these things? Kind of like why are you creating this misery for yourself? You don’t deserve it, right?

Maggie: Yes.

Lindsay: And then sometimes, a lot of times, right? It’s, it is kind of the opposite of that. And, you know, I’m always in a space where I am open to receiving that type of coaching in the moment.

Maggie: Yeah, thank you for mentioning that. And as, as we discussed that, and as I think it’s important to mention now, I think there’s a skill that you develop, to meet people where they are. And some coaches (this is a little bit inside baseball behind the scenes) but some coaches are like, they’re… let’s say, at the top of the mountain, and your growth is to rise up to meet them where they are. And some coaches, and this is my kind of style when I think about it, is I take you by the hand to where you told me you want to go.

Whether I would want to go there or not, it’s not actually relevant. It’s like you told me you want to go there, okay, this is how we get there. And I’m going to take you by the hand, and sometimes there are clients where they’re very tender for a variety of reasons in their life. And then I push to a certain degree with that person.

And another client might be very strong, like someone like Lindsay, who’s very strong in so many areas of her life. And then I know, it’s almost like if you had a baseball team, and you know, each player and how they play and what their strengths and weaknesses are, you’re like, that one could run a mile more, go run another lap, and then that one, like needs a break you, you know, go sit down, and you kind of balance that out.

And I think for the Coaches that are listening to us, that’s a skill that you develop over time and practice and witnessing someone like Lindsey teaching you when you join her program, or with being Coached and seeing what that’s like and experiencing in your own visceral experience.

And for my listeners that aren’t in the Coaching world, that’s something for you to look at is like, do you want to be super challenged by a coach who like says, meet me where I am? And in some chapters of your life, that’s what you want and that’s the right choice. Or do you need someone who’s going to come and take you by the hand and just sort of help you along, and it’s just a different vibe.

But I think it’s useful to think about, I’ve never met someone who’s been coached, who then doesn’t want to always be Coached around something in their life. If you’ve never had a coach, and you get coached once in some area, you’re like, oh, now I want to work on this. I’m going to go find a coach who does that. That’s generally how it goes.

And I remember when I discovered coaching, I’ve never not been in some kind of coaching situation ever since. And sometimes I need that person who’s going to push me hard. And sometimes I need that person who’s just going to, like, “Hold my hand a little one.”

Lindsay: And I would add on to that and say that you’re actually… I agree with what you said. But what I teach, and I think what you actually do, is, if you use the baseball analogy, you might look at someone like me and say, oh, but she can run an extra mile so like, I know, I can push her a little hard.

Then you also might look at me and say, but also when it comes time for batting practice, and she has a bad thumb, (as I hold up my injured hand) maybe this is the area where, where we will make it a little easier than everyone else, right? Or like, whatever.

I’m not a baseball person so I don’t know, but you know what I mean? It’s like, you totally pushed me in lots of areas, but you know I have my tender spots where it’s like, every time they come up it like — tears

Maggie: I love that. Absolutely agree. And that reminds me when I was in HR, there are these personality evaluations: The Strengths Finder from Gallup, and this thing called Talent Plus, which is very similar to Gallup. And one of the things that we used to discuss when we’re looking at talent, was the individualized approach. Right?

And it’s kind of… that’s the difference between working with a coach versus doing a class or doing something where there isn’t a coach there to help you is whether it’s a group class, or whether it’s a one on one, if you get that individualized approach for your situation.

And back when I was looking at it for talent, the best managers, the best leaders, the best, you know, people who could really lead other people to create results, one of their characteristics is having that individualized approach. So just to bring it back to sort of that side of it, too. Okay, what’s a fun memory that you have from either something you did for coaching homework or something that we did in a session?

Lindsay: Okay, when you first asked that, I thought you meant with my husband and I was like, oh, wow, I didn’t come prepared with this. Okay, a fun memory… so many Maggie. I mean, I could go through probably each call and if I could go grab my notes to be like, oh, remember this and this and this.

But I would say overall, one thing I really love about you and I appreciate this in other Coaches that I just really liked this in a coach is: even when something feels a little heavy or a little tender, you always bring the lightness, right?

Like we always end usually on a happy-ish note, even if I’m feeling a little, you know, tender about a certain thing, you always kind of bring it back to like, everything’s okay and we can have a laugh. And so that’s not really a specific thing. But that is something that I really appreciate about you.

Maggie: I love that. I think it’s so important and you know, for me as the coach, I very often am dealing with a variety of things that have an emotional intensity around them.

And I think about okay, but there’s so much goodness in life. Let’s deal with this. Absolutely. Let’s go head in, this is happening, how are we going to do our best around it? And let’s not lose sight of all the other amazingness that we have. Let’s just hold goals.

Lindsay: Yes. Also, I really like it when you ring the bell for me because I love to be a good student. And yeah, ringing the bell gives me very much satisfaction.

Maggie: So I have this bell that I ring when my clients say something brilliant, or when someone just says something hilarious or anything like that. And what’s fun is I do it to bring that levity. But now, many of my clients and students will be like, “Where’s the bell? This is a bell ringer.”

Lindsay: I think it’s… what’s interesting for me about it, is that I think a lot of your clients are probably like me, correct me if I’m wrong, but where they are kind of used to being good at things, used to being overachievers. Very like, take charge in their life.

And for someone to tell them, “Hey, you did a good job.” Like, yep, thank you, like, pat myself on the back, right? Like people like me, we just like to be rewarded sometimes.

Maggie: And that’s bring that out to, like, one of my values and a value that I want that podcast to be about, and that I want my coaching to be about is: I think that in our society, we overwork, and we under celebrate. And think about that.

Everyone who’s listening right now, think about it in your marriage, right? How many things are on your to do list or your partner’s to do list? And when was the last time you told each other, “Hey, great job. Hey, thank you. Hey, that’s amazing.”

If you haven’t, then that’s everyone’s homework from listening to today’s episode to go do that. And I think one of the ways I can model that is talking about it here, doing it in our sessions and saying, hey, this was amazing. And also owning your progress, owning your accomplishments. I am developing this new hypothesis that you don’t fully own something until you celebrate it.

Lindsay: That’s really good. What’s so interesting for me to think about that, is that pre-coaching, if you had said like, “Hey, listen, Lindsay, celebrating is actually a skill you learn. Something you may have to like, some people don’t just, aren’t just great at… a lot of people probably aren’t just great at celebrating themselves.

I would have said, I don’t know about that. Especially because I’m a very social person. I love celebrations, like birthdays, parties, cookouts, whatever it is. I love it. I’m there.

Maggie: Yes.

Lindsay: But celebrating myself has been something I’ve had to work on literally since I hired my first coach. And it… I am always working on it. And the more I work on it, the more you know, I don’t know that you and I have specifically talked about celebrating. You know, me celebrating Nate like, telling him he does a great job. But the longer that I’ve worked with you, the more and more I’ve just done that.

Maggie: Yeah, see. Sneaky. I’m a little sneaky sometimes.

Lindsay: I don’t know why this is so weird. But I just had a flash of the drug commercials that’s like may cause…

Maggie: May cause celebration. Yes. Love it. And here’s what we know. Like gratitude is super powerful. It’s one of the best things to practice for yourself, about yourself, for your partner, with your partner.

And many people who follow me, listen to the podcast, join my programs, and end up working with me have a complaint of being underappreciated or under seen or under acknowledged. And it’s because in our society, the ocean we swim in is we overwork and we under celebrate. Like this doesn’t just happen in a vacuum.

But then it’s like okay, a person will come to me and say I’m under acknowledged in my marriage, and I’ll be like, “Well, when was the last time you acknowledged yourself?” And it will have been never. So we just we just start with let’s start where we are. Right?

Lindsay: I remember when I was five when I learned how to French braid, and I was really proud of myself then. I don’t know if that’s actually like, that’s the last time.

But that’s kind of how it feels I think when you really… when someone questions that for the first time, it’s like, oh, I don’t know, I can think of times when I’ve had to hit huge milestones, right? But they have to be like, very big. Right? Like graduating what, like eighth in the class or something like, no, I’m not first, right like that?

Maggie: That’s the pressure we put on ourselves. Absolutely. And it’s like, wait, there were 1,000 people in that class and being 8th. That’s amazing, right? I’ll get the little podcast reports and it’ll say you’re number 197 in France. And I’m like, “Hi, France.” And it’s like, wait out of thousands of podcasts on Earth.

Lindsay: Do you want to know something secret?

Maggie: Tell me. Tell me.

Lindsay: I was last week or two weeks ago, I was the number one business podcast, which is kind of funny… in Lithuania. Hi, Lithuania.

Maggie: Hi, Lithuania. That’s Awesome. I love that.

Lindsay: I thought it was so funny. I’m like, what? Lithuania? How fun!

Maggie: Isn’t that it’s absolutely fabulous to even think about, right? Like we are recording and it goes all over the world. And we just want to say hello to everyone who listens all over the world. We love any number that we are.

Okay, before we start wrapping up, you know, I’m going to ask you a question from The Questions for Couples Journal so I’m going to start picking it now. But is there anything you want to add anything that comes to mind that you want to share?

Lindsay: Oh, let me see. I mean, obviously, they should hire you. That is the number one thing I want to share; I cannot say that enough. I, at some point, I think I’m just going to beg you to just like sign a life contract. I don’t know if that’s a thing if I can just have you on retainer forever?

And oh, I know what I will say. This feels very true for me and it will be very powerful for anybody that decides to do this work. I think that when you hire someone — a coach to work on one area of your life, because maybe it is your pain point currently, where you’re, you know, “pain” point pain in quotes, it could be adult pain, right, but just something that you’re like this, I want to work on this right now.

And then you’re like, oh, but I also need to work on this. And maybe I need to, you know, save more money. And maybe first I need to lose 10 pounds and whatever, whatever comes up, right? Working on your marriage will affect all of the things.

So even if one thing you’re thinking right now is like, “Yeah, but I need to work on all the things.” Just hire Maggie to work on your marriage and the other things, it’s like, again, side effect. Everything… like you will see results in all of the all of the areas.

Maggie: I have my hypothesis about why that is. But why do you think that is? From your point of view as like a Master Trainer of Coaches — like not just working with me, but when you do that.

Lindsay: I would say a very simple way that I explain it to people who aren’t coaches is that over our lifetime… Well, first, we’re born with certain personalities. And certain, you know, part of it is science, right? We’re born one way.

And then over our lifetime, so I just turned 40 this year, so I’ll just use myself as an example. Over 40 years of my life, I have learned to think certain things. I have learned patterns of thinking and behaving. And, you know, I’ve learned beliefs that I either created myself or that people told me just over and over and over, right?

Even a small thing. “Money doesn’t grow on trees.” Right, like that kind of thing. And I laugh about that, but like that I had to really work through that when I first started my business. And it seems so silly, but I grew up forever just hearing, “Money doesn’t grow on trees.” And anything like that, right?

Like all over our lifetime. We learn all these things. Our brain actually changes shape by our thoughts and you know, there’s all the science behind it. But then when you start Coaching, you kind of start unwinding. When you hire a Coach, you start unwinding all of it.

So, you know, for example, “Money doesn’t grow on trees.” That thought is like money is hard. That infects all of the other areas, right? So now like also marriage is hard, and parenting is hard, and losing weight is hard. And yeah, whatever I want to be great at, it’s probably going to be hard. So when I unwind it in one area…

Maggie: It starts getting it. Yeah. Unwound.

Lindsay: Not magically, right? You’re not going to hire Maggie, and make a million dollars in a month? Lose 50 pounds? No big deal. But you will make progress in every area.

Maggie: I think that if I haven’t made it explicitly clear before, I will do it today, which is there are no quick fixes. There are no magic pills. There are no big secrets. I talk about all of it on the podcast, right? It’s not like it’s going to shock you when we meet in the Marriage MBA or any class that I’m leading, it’s going to be the same stuff.

It’s just maybe the personalized approach, maybe a thought you’ve never had before. Maybe a question you ever asked yourself before. My thought about it is there’s a saying about how you do anything is how you do everything.

I change it to how you do anything is how you do almost everything, because I have no hand eye coordination and I would be terrible at soccer. But how I would do soccer is not how I would do a podcast episode, for example. So I add my almost in there.

But in so many ways, that saying is applicable in so many situations. So if it feels hard to talk to your husband about sex, and then we coach on that, and then it gets easier to talk to your husband about sex, it also becomes easier to talk to your boss about a raise, or to talk to the PTA president about what you want for your kid in the next school year.

So that skill becomes a skill you don’t have. And then that’s how it can affect so many different areas.

Lindsay: Yeah. Because you just have one thought, right? It’s like blanket thought for all of it, which might slightly differ depending on the situation, but it’s like, oh, this is going to be so uncomfortable. Or whatever. Right?

I want to talk to him about this, it’s going to be so uncomfortable. It would be true if I was asking for a raise, which, thank goodness, I’ll never have to do again, or, you know, having a disagreement with another PTA mom, which although I don’t do that, but that’s fine. Those are all just…

Maggie: Just to give you ideas and things. Okay, so here’s the question from The Questions for Couples Journal: what are your favorite words of wisdom to give?

Lindsay: Oh, my goodness. But like, just…

Maggie: So I would ask you, I’m going to like, do a double. It’s like..

Lindsay Dotzlaf: I mean this is like, wait, what? This is a very deep question. You know I love to overthink things. This is too complicated of a question.

Maggie: Okay, we’re going to take it from two angles. If you had a coach come to you, and say, I really want to become better at what I do. What is like the one thing that you would tell them: listen, this is the thing. And then if you had a person who had never experienced coaching before they came to you and said, I don’t know. Tell me what that is.

Lindsay: Okay, so if I had a coach come to me and say, what again?

Maggie: That they wanted to be better at their coaching. They really like, they are passionate about being a great coach. What is your favorite word of wisdom to give that person?

Lindsay: Oh, yeah. Okay. You know, again, I love to overthink this. I’m like, there. Well, there are 10 different ways I could answer this, depending on how they come. But here’s what I’ll say. What if you’re already a great coach? Like that’s one, right.?

And also, there’s always room for improvement. Right? So it’s like, I love to think of the dichotomy of things and how to come at it from both angles where on one side, it’s like, what if you’re already enough? For whatever it is. And on the other side, also, what if you can improve?

Maggie: Yes.

Lindsay: Actually, that might be the answer for just like, the whole question. Because yesterday, my daughter came to me with a thing about a test and she was very upset. And oh, my gosh, talk about flashbacks of seeing myself through my daughter’s eyes. It was crazy.

And I did, I approached it from that angle of like, oh, my gosh, what if nothing has gone wrong? You know, I knew she worked very hard. But you know, there was no like, she wasn’t messing around. Right? Like, you know, nothing had gone. Nothing had gone wrong. Right?

So what if nothing has gone wrong on one side and then on the other side, like, okay, what can we do about it?

Maggie: Yeah. Love it. That’s so good. So how can people find you? What are all the best ways to stay in touch with you, Lindsay?

Lindsay: So I have a website LindsayDotzlafCoaching.com I assume Maggie will put a link somewhere so I don’t have to spell it all out.

Maggie: Yes, we’ll put it in the show notes for everyone.

Lindsay: Yeah, I should have thought of that when I was picking a husband. Someday I was going have to be spelling my last name for everybody.

And they can find me on Facebook: Lindsay Dotzlaf. Instagram. Instagram is like probably my favorite right now – just @LindsayDotzlaf. I keep it all very simple. There are no fancy business names, just my name.

Maggie: Love it so much. And tell us again…

Lindsay: Oh my podcast.

Maggie: Yeah. Tell us again the name of the podcast.

Lindsay: Mastering Coaching Skills.

Maggie: Mastering Coaching Skills. It’s on every podcast platform. Go subscribe today.

Lindsay: Yes, and if you’re a coach, and you’re listening, I give very practical advice. I approach it from the angle that I was just talking about where it’s like on one side, how can we question your thoughts the way you’re thinking about this, the way you’re approaching it? And on the other side, here’s some tips. Do this, do these things?

Maggie: Simple, simple. Yeah. I love it so much. Thank you everyone for joining us. Thank you, Lindsay, for being here. We will be back next week. Making… what is it? The world better one marriage at a time, one coach at a time.

Lindsay: I’m going be back next week too?

Maggie: No, but we’ll both be making the world better one marriage at a time, and one coach at a time.

Lindsay: Perfect. Thank you so much for having me on.

Maggie: Bye, everyone. Bye.

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I hope you guys had so much fun listening to that interview. I know that we’re kind of silly and we laugh a lot but I hope you had some takeaways and I will see you here next week. Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at lindsaydotzlafcoaching.com. That’s Lindsay with an A, D-O-T-Z-L-A-F.com. See you next week.