Ep #140: Spiritual Business Coaching with David Vox

Hey, this is Lindsay Dotzlaf and you’re listening to Mastering Coaching Skills, Episode 140. To really compete in the coaching industry, you have to be great at coaching. That’s why every week, I will be answering your questions, sharing my stories, and offering tips and advice so you can be the best at what you do. Let’s get to work.

Hey, Coach. I am so happy you’re here today. You are in for such a treat. Today, I am having a conversation with my friend and colleague, David Vox. He is a spiritual business coach, and we have so much fun during this interview. Hopefully, the laughing doesn’t bother you. We tried to keep our composure, but we really had a lot of fun and he brings the heat.

He is going to give you so many tips on marketing, and how he thinks about coaching, which I think is so beautiful the way he describes it. He just talks about things in a way that I think will get your brain going and have you, hopefully, on fire for what you do and just for the love of coaching, in general.

So, I don’t want to make you wait any longer. Here he is, David Vox.

Lindsay Dotzlaf: All right. Hello, I am so happy you’re here today. We’re already laughing. We’re just starting and we’re just laughing. I have a feeling that’s going to happen a lot today. I’m so glad you’re here. Introduce yourself. Tell everyone who you are and what you do.

David Vox: Hello, thank you for having me. My name is David Vox. I’m a spiritual business coach. I help my clients with marketing, branding, but also healing and transformational work.

Lindsay: I have to tell you something that you might not know.

David: What?!

Lindsay: I know, I saved a secret for when we started recording. You are the first… I don’t know why; this is actually really funny… You’re the first male I’ve had on the podcast.

David: No way.

Lindsay: Besides, I actually did, my birthday week last year, I did an episode every day, and I had Lindsey Mango and her husband, Chris Goodman, on. But they were together. And it was for a birthday celebration. So, you are the first male coach that I’ve interviewed. I’m very nervous.

David: I want to throw confetti in the air. But of course, you can’t see that on the podcast, but maybe you can hear it.

Lindsay: Yes, he is throwing confetti around. It is blue and gold and amazing. And a first, we have lots of firsts today; first male, first confetti throwing. All of it. Maybe fireworks.

David: There might be fireworks, because today, in Spain, they have a big celebration. So, there might be fireworks coming left and right, hopefully not in the window.

Lindsay: Just a lot of firsts. We’ll see, we’re going to try to make it through. We’ll see how it goes. But if we have to pause, it wouldn’t be terrible if there were fireworks on the podcast. We can just weave them in. All the celebrating.

Okay, so let’s just dig in, maybe just start with how did you get here? How did you get into coaching? Like, what drew you to coaching? Just as little or as much as you want of your story? Just to give people a little taste of how’d you get here.

David: Yes. Well, it’s a very strange and interesting story. Because I had a very, very, very difficult childhood. I was born into a family where my mom was an alcoholic, she was partying a lot. She sort of went to the party in the 80s and never came back. She ended up in prison for murder.

I was sent into foster care, where I just suffered a lot of trauma that I, eventually, as an adult, had to work through and I didn’t know how. So, I went into the therapy routes. I was sitting there being an entrepreneur, having lots of anxiety, having lots of challenges. Saying, “Okay, how do I stop all of this bullshit behavior?”

I understand, talking about the past, we’ve done that now for years, but I need to talk about the future. I need to make healthier choices. And there was a gap that I couldn’t find, or couldn’t fulfill, with the therapy, even though the therapist was amazing.

I found coaching and just in one session, someone called me out on so much of my own b.s. and my own wounding, that I was floored. My ego felt like a little punching bag. I was like, “Oh, my God. Is this so visible? Is this so obvious? And is this so easy?” Like someone gave me a reincarnation manual. Saying, “Hey, you’re not completely fucked up. There are simple steps here to create a healthy life.”

In one of the startups I did, I got a million-dollar investment into a coaching app. It was back when you could get a lot of investment if you made an app. Back in the old days.

Lindsay: Now everybody just has an app, right?

David: Yeah, everybody. You could just pay someone $50 and you have an app now. But back then, it was very exotic. Like, a tropical animal. Ooh, an application on the iPhone! So, I was traveling all around the world, New York, London, L.A., all over, recording with all of these amazing coaches. I just felt more and more in love with the coaching industry. I got to work with some of the really big names in the industry.

I was just obsessed with their skills and how one little question could just transform the entire team that was recording. Like, one question. It was like a seed that just grew within us. And I was like, “What is this stuff?” We don’t have this in Norway. Life coaching is like a tropical animal on rehab, we don’t really want to engage with it. It’s really weird.

But for me, it was so legit. And you could just feel and see the changes instantly. So, I decided, okay, when this app thing didn’t work out, because that wasn’t really the destiny that I had planned, I went to the U.S. Because in the U.S., that’s where you have all life coaches.

I remember taking it really seriously. I’m going to start a blog… and I didn’t have Stacey Bateman’s stuff by back then. So, I remember getting this Airbnb in San Diego, and I would go to Starbucks every morning at seven. It was just me and homeless people who went there to have coffee. I would sit there and write my blog, and hope to get lots of clients. And of course, no one showed up.

Eventually I was just running out of money. And I remember standing with two of my friends in San Diego asking, “Please God, or Spirit or whatever, whoever, Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, someone. If I can just get like $15,000 or $17,000, I will go to a monastery for whole month and really rethink my life, and figure out what I’m supposed to do. Because clearly what I’m doing is not working.”

That day, my attorney from Norway, just to make a full circle with that story, sent me an email. That the lawsuit that we have against the state of Norway… It’s been going on since I was 18 years old. And now, I’m over 30… That I actually got $17,000 as a settlement from the state of Norway for the abuse that I experienced.

I wanted to go to Hawaii. I wanted to go with the gays and party. I went straight to the first monastery I could find, and I just sat there for a whole month meditating, doing water fasts, and found out, “Okay, I’m going to do this coaching, but I love stories. I am good in marketing. I’m good in business. I will try to put it together and not do any shortcuts.”

From there on, it just went, whee. Every client, almost, was a big success. And it was incredible. It was all just using also, a lot of the skills from childhood. I guess it’s like a hypersensitivity, where you’re really good at reading energy. Where you’re really good at sensing someone’s small signals that other people don’t pick up.

The more I’ve been in this industry, the more I’ve also been able to sort of receive my own medicine of what I needed. So, the more I’ve been in this industry, the more amazing teachers I’ve found, the more amazing friends and colleagues. And my life has just tremendously grown. Not only inner growth, but just abundance and expansion in every area of my life.

Lindsay: I am blown away by that. I don’t think I knew parts of that story. I do have a question for you, which I’ve considered this myself for a while. I’ve been kind of thinking about this. About how, possibly, things that you’ve experienced, that I experienced in my childhood, like how that really set me up to be a great coach.

How I created skills, in those times that were really hard, that I now carry with me into coaching, the way I interact with my clients, and the way I just show up in spaces. You kind of briefly touched on it, but what are your thoughts on that? Do you think that that is a thing for you?

David: I think it’s a thing for a lot of us. Because we develop this hypersensitivity when we are living in traumatized environments. So, our antenna just grows. Have you seen the Tennyson moths? These beautiful white moths that look like they’re having fur on them?

Lindsay: I love moths so much. I really do. I love them. Whales are better, but I love moths.

David: I want to whale moth. But I really think that so many of us have these huge antennas. Because if we grow up in environment where it’s not safe, we’re not actually able to focus on connection, but we need it. So, we just create these huge antennas, to figure out how can we connect through all of the construction work and unsafe environments.

And then, some of us, we have these antennas into adulthood and it just picks up everything. It’s why some of us can’t go out on a party because we’re like, “Okay, I got just everyone’s life story and all the energy just came into my orbit.” I also see that for myself, growing up, there was a lot of work learning to turn on, sort of, the safety antenna and turn on the connection antenna. Because it’s super exhausting to connect with people through an unsafe, dysregulated nervous system.

I truly believe that the most amazing talent that interesting people in the world have, is this huge antenna. It’s just sometimes it can get a little bit dysfunctional when we’re not fully grounded and protected.

Lindsay: I love the way you describe that. I’ve just been kind of on this journey recently for myself. Really thinking about this, and thinking about how… I’ve never thought about it like that, like an antenna… But I think that I, for a long time, thought that so many of those things or the way I would react to the world was bad. Like, I shouldn’t be reacting this way. Or like, this energy is too much, but I should be fine with it. Right? I need to just figure out how to like “be” normal in the world, versus…

I think coaching has really let me see that in some ways, it is a superpower. And I, now, wouldn’t trade it for anything. But I spent so many years, kind of resisting it or thinking, “Oh, this is a weird thing. I have to almost hide my antenna, No one can know that I have them.” And so, I really love that you said that. I hadn’t planned on bringing that up. But I think that that is really important for people to just hear, if they relate to it.

David: I really feel that our antennas are our superpower. But it also comes with the responsibility of learning to protect ourselves. So, my family, my third family that I love, they know when I come home from Christmas, that Uncle David, he’s going to go out in kitchen at least 7, 8, 9 times and clean the dishes or make a little cup of wine for himself.

Because if there’s loud noise and screaming from any type of kids… I love them. But my nervous system, my antenna, gets fried easily. So, a lot of work goes to [inaudible]. There is this modern civilization out there, and we love all of you. But I also need to create a bit of a safe space so that my antenna gets to recharge and sort of strengthen that signal.

Lindsay: Yeah, yes. I love that. One thing, for me, that’s so fun about coaching, is seeing the side of it where it’s like, of course, we take care of all of our clients, and we help them do whatever it is that we’re helping them with. But also, that piece for us, that we get to learn so much about ourselves through either coaching others, I find. Or just being coached ourselves. It’s really powerful. To me, that feels like one of the biggest gifts of just being a part of this industry.

David: Me too. I feel like this industry, when you are in your truth and you’re honoring yourself, it’s like you get to find all of these diamonds on your path that were laid there even before you were born. Because we’re choosing this path and we get to meet all of these amazing people, get to have all of these transformational experiences.

And you never know when it’s happening, because we’re in an industry where it happens all the time. So, you might have a 10-minute phone call with someone and it just blows your mind. Or it opens up a completely new door, on the inside or on the outside. It’s just really cool.

Lindsay: I love it. Okay, let’s talk about spiritual business coaching. I know what that is, but how would you describe it for people listening? How would you describe it? What is the difference between, I don’t know what, traditional business coaching, or what would you call it? Regular business coaching and spiritual business coaching?

David: When it comes to spiritual business coaching, I really want everyone that I get to work with to connect to their spirits, to their being, to their soul, whatever they want to call in. So, I like to think of our being energy as the energy we had when we were children. Where it was really hard to get us tired. Because we were not in our head so much. We were not trying to be a character.

So, it’s like a being energy where the more we’re giving, the more we’re receiving. That is literally my intention with all my work. Trying to get people to be in their most authentic energy. Did you hear the firework? I hope not.

Lindsay: No, I didn’t it. I’m kind of bummed. Oh, they’re celebrating you.

David: They’re celebrating the being energy. No, I think of it a little bit like, think of it as if you’re creating this abundance cookie. And the more you’re serving it to other people, the more you’re actually receiving; it never goes empty. Because what I’ve seen on my own journey, is that when I’m in a character, presenting myself to the world, I’m not able to receive, not the good or the bad. I’m sort of protected.

So, what I really want all of my clients to experience is who they really are on the inside; the joy, with love, with peace, with all of the stuff that is impossible to sell. And that is why the business coaching comes in, because everyone wants to do better marketing and want to make more money. And they are not able to, maybe, see the medicine that they need to give themselves. Also, the power that they have inside of them. The wise inner teacher that’s going to come to the surface if they slow down and just take the time to catch up with their soul.

Lindsay: Everything you say, I feel like it’s so deep. I’m like, “Oh, let me think about that for a minute.” Usually, I’m right on it with the ‘I already know what I want to ask’, but I’m just so in it. I’m like, “Oh yeah, we’re recording a podcast, let me focus.”

Okay, most people listening to my podcasts for a while are here, obviously to hear about coaching skills and how to be a great coach. But I want to dig in a little bit. So, for those people that are like, “I love coaching skills. I love learning about coaching. I love being a great coach,” what would you say? I don’t know how to ask this. Is there one thing or maybe multiple things?

Like, what would you say to them when they’re like, “Okay, I believe I’m a great coach. And maybe I have clients, I’ve worked with clients. But I don’t know how to translate that into my marketing or into letting all of the people know that I’m a great coach.”

David: I would ask them a lot of questions about that, because it’s usually a lot of beliefs around their own skills. And there are so many ways that we can do this. One way is literally just coaching people and sharing it. And another way, is to also letting your own breakthrough and your own transformation sort of lead, as an inspiration to that work. Which I just feel, always, is such a brilliant way of creating very deep connection with people.

But if you would ask me, “Okay, I don’t know. I need to build confidence in my own skills.” I feel the best way is to be in a community like you’re offering, to constantly get mirrored back how being in a community where everyone is practicing their skills is the best place to be. And it will build the confidence and the self-belief and the self-concept so much. Maybe more in a week than you could ever do alone, or would take years alone.

So, I feel like if there is like a little shit sandwich there, where you feel like, “Ah, this is painful. This is sort of limiting my marketing and my growth,” there’s probably a solution. Because we’re coaches. I would just go and buy that solution, or buy into that solution, and then focus on integrating. You know, sometimes it’s just so simple.

Lindsay: Oh, you’re saying that maybe some people are overcomplicating it.

David: Overcomplicating it, or they’re not giving themselves their solution. They’re using, I think you’ve said this to me, they’re using more time on the problem than what they are in the solution. And I find it so interesting that if I put five hours into eating shitty food, or five hours into working out, it’s the same amount of time, but I get two very different results. So, if you saying, “I don’t really trust my coaching skills,” what if you used all of that energy into building your coaching skills?

I see so many people looking so much for their marketing, and what I normally would say, is that a lot of us, when we’re self-sabotaging because of the belief, is because we’re so into the macro. And this happens a lot with spiritual people. They will have such a big, ideal concept of themselves and their vision and their mission, where they have such a macro idea of what it means to be a great coach.

Like maybe to have to be like you, or maybe to have to be like Oprah Winfrey, or whoever. So, they have this super big idea, and what I would always encourage them, is what would be the micro of that? What will be the mini steps that you can do right now? And what would that look like if you posted on social media, made it into a video, connected to a friend, asked the coach? What are all the little micro steps? And how can you take the first one?

Don’t sit at home with a limiting belief or an idea, and throw this tennis ball back and forth, back and forth, back and forth for weeks or months or hours. Just step straight out of it. Have a little micro self-sabotage exit plan. Don’t get stuck into macro, no matter if it’s your coaching skills, or your marketing or your business or your marriage. Just go straight into micro. What is that first tiny little step?

Lindsay: One thing that I teach, that I think is very much in alignment with this, is in my certification. It’s coaches who’ve been coaching for a while, who are working usually with a lot of clients, or quite a few clients, like they built their business up to… How would I say it? It’s a real business, right?

Like they have lots of clients, they are working with them, they know what they’re doing. And the reason they’re coming into the certification is to really take that thing and make it, “Okay, now I’m going to turn it into my thing,” right? Like, how are people going to, for example, look at this business and say, “Oh, that’s David’s. That has David all over it.”

And one thing that I kind of teach them… Which I don’t go heavy into the marketing, but of course there’s like overlaps between… Sometimes when you’re creating content for your coaching containers, there are overlaps of now how do you take that into the world and tell people about it?

And so, one thing I always teach them, which I always find it surprising that it blows people’s minds, but I think I tend to attract a lot of, I don’t know what the word would be, like pretty cerebral people that like to be in their head and like overthink things and like to be good at things. I have no idea how I attract these people. I know nothing about this. That’s sarcasm.

David: I’m a gay guy from Norway, I have so many people that are like, “PhD, Doctor, psychiatrist,” and I was like, “Why? Me.” But I think it’s because our intuition trumps their intellect any day of the week, and that’s what they need to learn how to trust.

Lindsay: Well, I was being sarcastic because I tend to be a huge overthinker. I could spend all day in my head just thinking. Solving all the world’s problems in my mind without actually going into the world and doing anything about it. At the end of the day, I’m like, “Ta-da, I accomplished so much, and told no one about it,” which is fine. Except when it comes to marketing my business.

So, one thing that I teach is how, if it feels really hard, if it feels like your brain is working really hard to teach a concept or to think about how would I apply this concept in my coaching process? I don’t say these words, necessarily, but kind of like you’re doing it wrong. Because what you want to be teaching, and what you want to be sharing, are the things that you just know.

And it’s going to feel like, everybody probably knows this, because it’s so obvious to you. And a lot of them have the thought like, “This is too simple. I can’t possibly teach this. My clients want more than that.” And always, it’s like my mission to prove to them like, “No, just tell me the thing that you are an expert at. That you could just tell me right now, what are the steps for this? Just get them out of your brain, onto a piece of paper, without judging them. And we’ll come back and like look at them later. But just get them out.” It feels very similar to like what you just said, which is like, stop focusing on the macro, on like the entire thing, and like distill it down to what do you just know right now?

David: Yeah, and it’s so helpful also, because when I have the macro ideas and the big whoo, we’re going to do something, then I bring it down. I just put it on Post-it notes; one little idea per Post-it. And it’s easy to organize a journey or a process. And then, I get to test it out. And I get so surprised sometimes, instead of testing the macro, where nobody understands because it’s all generic, and it tries to fit everything into a suit. When I test micro ideas, I get to see, okay, this one has a lot of engagement. This one gets people super excited about.

And I did it with a launch with a client once, in boundaries. And we had already recorded the program in Barcelona, and we were launching it in New York. And I was laughing so much, because the micro ideas I was testing in social media with her, people were obsessed about. It had nothing to do with the program.

So, we had to rerecord the entire program for her. And it turned out well. Now it’s a big book and everything. But it’s really important to go and test everything micro. And that’s why I also love constantly trying out things with clients, like new questions, new approaches, new guided meditations, new visualizations. Because you will never know, from just sitting there by yourself and thinking that you’re the God in the universe, the best way. I think that’s where we get to see our real magic in action. It’s when we start playing that tennis ball and we’re throwing it into someone’s hands, and we’re collaborating. Like we’re doing now. That’s when our magic actually gets to shine.

And that’s why I feel coaching is so great, because it pulls us out of that isolated, little, I am alone in the world making this thing. To, no, we’re creating a movement, we’re creating a mission, and we’re doing this together. And we’re together on this growing journey. And that’s the magic of it.

Lindsay: I’m pretty sure, after people listen to this, they’re only going to want to hear you on the podcast. Like, you might just be taking over from this point, and they’re going to be like, “Lindsey is a no. We just need David to tell us all the things.”

David: My old self-concept, of just a year ago, is getting completely destroyed by you, and all of the coaches that I’ve met the last six months, and in 200K. Because it’s like, “Oh my God.” There’s so much positive feedback, that it’s just like shaking my old self-concept so much.

Lindsay: That’s so good. Maybe that’s what it was like, we’re forcing it on you, “You have to believe this about yourself. Sorry, there are no other options. You’re amazing, and that’s it.”

David: I’m going to hide behind my confetti.

Lindsay: Okay, so we didn’t actually say at the very beginning, and I want to get back to what we were talking about. But we didn’t actually say how we know each other. He has confetti on his head, and I’m trying to be serious, and it’s a little hard, but that’s okay. I love it. You’re not my client, you are a friend and a colleague. We met in, you just said, in 200K which is a business mastermind that I am in, that I now I teach in. We met there and it was just instant love. For me, anyway.

David: And you literally invited me on a whale cruise ship, a yacht. Where we actually hijacked the yacht, and took it far away from all the other people. And all the whales came to say hello to us. Which was amazing.

Lindsay: Well, inviting you was the best choice. Because all of the animals were like, “I’m here for David, what’s happening? He’s here, so we are here.” And I felt like that was a really strategically great choice on my end.

David: The best experience ever. I almost, no, I completely lost it. Screaming, I was so excited. So, one of the best experiences in my life, thanks to you. Thank you.

Lindsay: Well, it was also one of the best experiences of my life. I can’t even imagine. I didn’t even know you before that, and I can’t imagine doing it again without you there. So, just so you know, whenever I’m going to see whales, you’re going to get the message that’s like, “Hey, I’m going to need you. Are you available next week? I’m going to need you to come with me.”

David: I will come for sure.

Lindsay: Perfect. Okay, I have a question that struck me as you were just talking. So, I don’t tend towards the spiritual side of coaching. If some of my clients described me they wouldn’t, that’s not a word that would come up. But I do tend to attract quite a few spiritual coaches that I work with in my programs. And I think one reason that happens… I’ve noticed this over time. And I guess my question, I’ll describe it, but then my question is, do you find that a lot of spiritual entrepreneurs that you work with are like this? Or are these just the ones I attract? It feels, a lot of times, like they can always see the macro. There’s a lot of bigness and ideas and dreaming, and I call it “up in the clouds” a little bit, but in a good way.

David: Visionaries.

Lindsay: Yes. I think a lot of the work they do with me is like, I’m like a grounder. Let me… “Okay, this is all amazing. And let me kind of pull you down out of the clouds so you can… You already know what’s going on up there. Now let’s be a little grounded so you can actually deliver it into the world in a way that people understand and know what you’re saying. Besides just being in the clouds.” Do you find like, is that pretty common do you think? Or is that just the type of coaches that I’m attracting?

David: Both ways. I had an executive for Amazon, who had never done any spiritual work, and was just following her intuition. She had a very deep spiritual awakening and completely lost her ego and lost all our judgments and all of this. So, sometimes they are pretty fresh. And they listen to something and they feel this pique, curiosity, and they come closer, and then they’re in for the roller coaster of a process.

And then, the other category is definitely like they’re so high up in the visionary state, and they’re going to make these big movements. And it’s things all over the world, or there are ideas of not just one book, but five books and programs and all of it. And then, I think of myself sometimes as the very strict, but loving dad, who doesn’t let you get away with anything. It’s like, “We’re going to come back to Earth now, and we are going to take one step at a time.”

I do a lot of ayahuasca retreats, and when I learned from the shamans, that have been doing work with people and healing for thousands of years, they all had these different roles in communities before. They would all come to the fire, and they would guide and support and help each other. And there will be elders that kind of knew life’s journey.

Elders are the probably the oldest life coaches we have. And we don’t have those structures anymore. So, I think it’s important if you are a visionary, someone who gets into very big ideas and lots of beauty, you’re a creator, you need someone to ground you. You need a community and support and a mentor that can like pull it together.

Because if you’re not able to sort of manifest it and put it into a container, it just stays in the air. It never gets manifested. And I think that’s the biggest challenge for most spiritual people. They have the most beautiful ideas, but they’re not able to bring it into the earth.

Lindsay: Yes. So, my question, a lot of times, for them, the way I think about it is, “That’s all amazing. I love this vision so much. And what are you going to do today? What is just your next step?” And I think that’s the part where they’re always like, “Wait, what? What I’m doing today is thinking about this, this whole thing I’m creating.” What would you say is like step one? Here’s how we can bring you down and like, explore the like right now.

David: So, what I feel with a lot of visionaries that are not able to fully manifest, to bring things into container, is that they need to learn… And this is like, my clients will write in their journal, “I hate David Vox.” Like, every single time when they do this. So, I think that for some people, like you’re probably very good with commitments. A little bit?

Lindsay: Sometimes. If it’s something that I really want to do, then yes. My personality is a little tricky.

David: You are sending emails every week. So, for me, that’s like a challenge. So, I have like medicine with commitments. Some people can go to extreme, some people are in the middle, and so on. But for a lot of spiritual people, they’ve never learned to create that self-governance, and to create, for example, commitment.

So, I’ve asked them to do one thing for 30 days. And they will kick and scream, because just doing one thing and bringing it into earth just takes them through this whole process of like rebirth and ego death, and all these ideas and all the creativity, and they don’t have time for it.

And it’s like, “You’re going to start over until you’re able to do it for 30 days.” Or if they’re a little bit like over eccentric, 100 days. And then, they’re not going to talk to me before they’ve done it. And then, they come back more humble and they’re able to bring it this small thing into the earth in a very simple way.

Because I think the process in itself is more important than the idea or the outcome. So, if they can fall in love with the process and do something really simple. Like with clients now, asking them, “Ask for feedback from two clients, or two people, every single day for 10 weeks. You talk to 100 people, then you invite them into your master class about your method or your program or your product.” Like, how can we make it really simple, but learn to be consistent about it so that we build that muscle? Because when spiritual people, or any of us in the coaching industry, promise ourselves or other people something, and then we don’t deliver, it’s like we’re creating all of these holes in our energy field. And our integrity just shrinks.

And then eventually, we don’t even trust ourselves. And we’re not able to bring any ideas into reality. So, for you to train your integrity and your energy field to expand again, you need to learn how you can promise something and actually complete every single day. And then, you will actually feel that expansion and that self-trust that you will need to build any business.

Lindsay: It’s funny that you asked me. When you said like, “Oh, you’re probably pretty good at commitment.” I actually think, naturally I’m not. And I did kind of exactly what you’re saying. I had to learn to be and I had to kind of show myself why I want to be, not just “Okay, well, I’m just going to do…” I’m really bad at doing things that feel like they don’t have a purpose, right? Like, okay, I’m just going to do this for like 100 days, or 10 days, or however many days it is. I’m going to do this thing, in a row. And it’s not very connected to… And here’s why. I have to have that like passion or drive for it.

So, I do think it’s a skill that can be learned, for anyone’s listening. That sounds terrible. I think it’s really like an effective skill, because I don’t always have it. Like, I don’t always. I’m not now, like the most organized, committed, whatever person. But I do know, I can turn it on anytime I want to.

David: Yes. And without it, you wouldn’t be able to run a seven-figure business, and you wouldn’t have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people in the coaching lab and in your mastermind and so on. Because without that integrity to yourself first… And so many people come to me, and I have clients that they might have done really big stuff like media whatever, celebrity clients, and so on. And they come to me and say, “Why am I not making more money? Why am I not having more coaching clients?”

And I always say, “There is an integrity issue.” Because if you have an integrity issue with yourself and you don’t trust yourself, you will not bring in more commitment or responsibility. Because you can’t even fulfill the responsibility and commitment you have to yourself, and your own promises. So, I had a shaman in another mastermind, and she was like, “I’m going to do this next week. I promise you, David. I’m going to deliver this.” And I said, “Just promise me one thing, and that is that you stop giving promises.” And she started crying, because she was so tired of giving promises and then not being able to deliver.

Because we really want to deliver, we want to do this thing. But just please stop giving promises. Clean that up. Get your energy field back, so it’s not full of holes and you’re leaking energy everywhere, and you’re spinning and you’re looping. Learn to trust yourself, even if it’s like a small thing. Like, I’m going to write like one little sentence on Instagram. I’m going to do this little meditation every day. I’m going to send a video to my friend and let her witness my process.

One simple thing, every single day for 30 days, I think it’s the greatest medicine we can give ourself as coaches. Because who are we without our own integrity and our trust in ourselves? You know, that’s like a shitty place to be.

Lindsay: And if you’re a coach, well, then it starts to mess with your head, right? Then it’s like, “Ooh, if I can’t even do this, how will I teach other people to do it? How can I help other people with…” This comes up a lot in my spaces, especially in the coach lab when I’m working with newer coaches, right? That are like, “I haven’t worked 100% through this ,on my own.” First of all, I’m like, “What does that even mean, 100%? How will you know, that you’re going to like arrive and there’s going to be some party and confetti probably when you get there?”

David: When we do this healing work, I thought that there is this place that you will get to one day, where God, Mickey Mouse, Buddha, is like waving, and confetti, and is like, “Yay, you made it! You healed everything! All the lineages, everything. You’re reincarnated in heaven.” And then you just see, wow, you’re just deeper and deeper and deeper into this.

Lindsay: But wait, there’s more.

David: But there’s always more. And it’s like, “Oh, Lord.”

Lindsay: Yes. Yes. I’m really feeling that right now. And for anybody that needs to hear that, I think it’s just sometimes the noticing. I don’t know if you ever experience this, but sometimes I think I forget that there’s not like a finish line, or like the party that’s happening. That like finally I’m going to get there and it’s just going to be a party for me, or for whatever this like imaginary finish line is. And it’s just always a reminder of like, “Oh, yes, I just forgot for a minute. That’s okay. Nothing has gone wrong. This is completely normal. And let’s just settle back into it. We don’t even have to do this work right now, if we don’t want to. We can take a break. We can pick it up later.” I kind of have to like talk myself through that.

Do you I still experienced that, or you just in the ‘we’re just always healing, and that’s just the thing’?

David: I think it can be very unhealthy to always be in a process. So, sometimes I see people looping into the process, into their pain all the time. And I’m like, “Hey, you need to stop. You need to also learn to step out of processes.” So, it’s like the inner and the outer work.

And this is how I experienced it in my own life, because I knew I had inner work to do, and I tried ayahuasca and coaching to help integrate it. But I would go to ayahuasca, which is a plant medicine that is done with shamans; not something ordered on Amazon. Mot something that you’re recruited into. It’s a deep, inner growing.

And ayahuasca took me to all of my inner traumas. And I had to meet them on the inside, first. So, it’s acceptance and surrender and forgiveness and all of the healing stuff. But after years of doing that, ayahuasca would tell me, you haven’t met your fear on the outside. So, there was the inner walls and you can release them, but then you also have the outer wall, or the outer work. And that is the integration. So, you can find your truth on the inside and be like, “Ya, I know it,” but you can refuse to own it on the outside. Owning your power, owning your uniqueness, owning every single side, of your own facet, in your diamond.

I went on a very difficult trip for my own integration. Where I had to give up all my belongings, go home to Norway, meet the foster family that was very abusive, own my truth and all my story, and take away the fear that these people are dangerous, because I’m not five years old anymore. And take down every outer wall that was there.

It was really difficult because I had tried for years to write about my bio-mom being a person for murder. And then, I didn’t want to write something because I didn’t want to hurt her feelings. Because she has her own mental challenges. You spend years of learning to own that story and to be able to share it out there, because I was so ashamed. And I saw it didn’t matter how much I talked about this in therapy and do the inner work. I also have to own it on the outside and say, “Yes, this is my mom. She has done something really difficult. This is what I learned from it. This is why it was difficult for me.”

And again, sort of expanding my outer walls and creating more space for myself to be free. And also, feeling that I have more space to create more abundance. But this work for me, it’s not about getting to a destination. It’s about falling in love with the process of being in love with yourself, having amazing people in your life. And I feel it’s more like a path where I’m like, when I’m in my truth, when I’m honoring myself, and I’m being courageous and doing the deep inner work that most people probably don’t want to do, I get to find all of this diamonds. Like, pixie dust love and everyone else. I get to see and find all of these diamonds. I get to enjoy. I get to see all of the magic inside of me.

But also, as a reflection, I get to see all the magic in other people. Which just blows my mind. The more potential I find in me; I get to see more potential in people around me. So, I feel more and more that I’m somehow, sometimes, living in the run on earth, because I get to see all the beauty. But I also know and have embodied and felt what the other stuff is.

I get to have a conscious choice. I get to have freewill now, to actually choose what I want to experience, and not just repeat some subconscious pattern. So, I love the transformational healing part of the journey. And I think coaches are so important to making sure that we’re moving our asses forward and are in action. Because otherwise, we’re just sitting at home healing and meditating. We need to get out there, because life itself is the best integrator and facilitator. So, we can’t just sit at home or be in our own little monasteries. We need to be out there, be of service, be in the movement with the energies, to be able to integrate it fully.

Lindsay: Yes, this is another one. I’m just like, “Okay, let me just sit in that for a minute. Just soak it in.” It’s so good. I love the way you describe that. We didn’t talk about this before we started recording, but it’s just so interesting that this is happening today. Because there are so many things that I am just personally working on right now, that you are very much kind of reflecting back to me in the craziest way. Because I think one realization I’ve had recently, I teach my clients coaching skills, and one thing that I’ve been kind of going back and forth on is, I agree that coaches can be hired for growth and to like help our clients do amazing things in the world and all of that, like that forward progression.

But I think for me, so much of the work that’s been important over the last maybe year or so, is actually saying the growth looks a little different right now. And it isn’t accomplishing more or like doing big things, it’s how can I 100% accept who I am in this moment, and just be out in the world. Living my life to its extreme fullest, just as I am, without changing anything. And to me, it’s like I would still call that growth, but I think that it’s like a different type of growth. I’m curious what your like thoughts are on that? Do you think it’s like the same thing? I think that growth promotes the other things like maybe building a business or whatever. But to me they feel a little different, almost.

David: Yeah, it depends. But it feels like to me, and the energy of what you’re saying, is that you’re giving yourself permission to just enjoy. And to take a little bit of a breather from all of these more hectic, drastic things and processes. And when I’ve seen you, on what you share on social media, you are just enjoying the beautiful dresses with beautiful people, really enjoying yourself, your hobby. And I don’t really care like, what type of spiritual journey or transformational journey we’re on. I think it’s really important that we look at how happy and healthy are you in your closest relationships and with yourself.

Because we can all look fancy on the little podcast interview with some confetti, or on stage, or in an hour coaching session. But are you crying when you’re going to bed? Or are you like snuggling up with your favorite person, which is yourself and maybe with your hubby? Do you have time for your kids?

Like, I don’t really care about those big achievements, because at the end of the day, I don’t really think it matters at all. I think it keeps our energy in motion, and we can experience a lot of fun stuff. But the most important things will always be what’s happening inside of your own heart. And with the people that are closest to you, that love you, no matter if you’re making millions of dollars or do some coaching stuff for this organization, for this corporation.

So, my question is like, are you enjoying your life right now? And if you are, perfect. We don’t have to go and sit on top of the mountain top and call ourself Buddha. I think that is the mountaintop. That is to be just enjoying. If that’s having a glass of wine every night, perfect.

I think that our journey should always be about honoring us. And I know that there are so many people saying so many different things about this, but at the end of the day, I think my job, at least, is honoring my own heart and my own journey. And then, hopefully, it can serve someone else. But that’s my main intention. And I hope it’s everyone else, as well.

Lindsay: My heart always breaks in like the teensiest ways when my clients say things, in some form, they might not say these exact words. But what they’re trying to say is, “My coaching isn’t as important as this other coaching. I don’t help my clients make money. I don’t help my clients…,” I don’t even know, like, that’s one that comes up a lot.

And it always just breaks my heart a little bit because I’m like, “I don’t think you understand, like how important the work you’re doing is.” Even coaches that are helping people make money, it’s like the money is not the prize that we were talking about earlier, right? It’s not like, “Oh, now you have it,” and it’s just like this amazing prize that’s waiting for you at the end.

It’s more about like the journey to getting there, and like who you become. What would you say to those coaches? Because you’re going to say it in a different way. Maybe they’ll hear it and it’ll just like land in a way that they’re like, “Yes, that makes some much sense.”

David: There is this one coach, I’m not sure if you’ve read his book. He talks about being the power of a lamppost… is what you’re calling them? The ones on the street that are shining. Lampposts?

Lindsay: Yeah.

David: I’m so sorry, sometimes my ear is like, “What is it?”… so many languages. I’m sorry I’m far away.

Lindsay: Are like a light post?

David: Oh, light post, there we go.

Lindsay: Yeah, I have that book. I can’t think of it’s called. Keep going.

David: Yeah. So, he just talks about the power of just walking to that every single week, and talking for 30 minutes about your life and your ideas. And if you do that every single week, for a whole year, you will completely transform your life. And that’s my thought.

In the beginning of coaching, I was like, “I have no clue what I’m doing. I have no idea where we’re going. But I hope that if I check in every day or every week, and I’m present, I have focus, I listen, and I have my heart with me and my brain with me, that something great will happen.”

But it’s also not really up to me, it’s also up to the client. And that has been like a lifesaver for me, in the beginning of the journey. But then, I think we come to a certain level where there is also this need for us to challenge ourselves in our own coaching to go deeper.

Because we can’t take our clients deeper than we’ve gone ourselves. And that’s where I think it’s important, with programs like you are offering, or hiring like really good coaches that you will just feel in the first session are helping you have like the biggest transformation in your entire life, in like one question or two questions or three questions.

Like, when Maggie’s saying you’re not paying for the hour, you’re paying for the question. And that’s what I feel is like the power for us in this industry. We can hire someone that can help us go so much deeper, so that we are able to bring that to our clients as well. But we get to have that beautiful awareness with us for the rest of our lives.

Lindsay: So good. I love it. Okay, so one thing I noticed since I’ve started this certification program… I’m coming to the end of the first round of it, right now. It’s been so incredible. It feels like the work that I came here to do, if that makes sense. It just is like; I feel it like in my soul. And what’s interesting, one thing I’ve noticed that’s happening in the program, in the certification, is that a lot of the coaches, maybe for the first time, are creating… They’ve already had a business. And now, they’re creating something that feels so uniquely them.

They feel very connected to it and very kind of like, they’ve exposed themselves. They’ve exposed their heart. And then, when they go to put it in the world, and maybe it doesn’t maybe sell like they want it to, or a launch isn’t going the way… and we don’t really coach on the launches, and all of that, but I just I just know what’s happening.

And I see them kind of, and I have also experienced this a little bit with this certification, I see them kind of, like it affects them more because I think it feels a lot more vulnerable. And a lot more like, oh, you don’t love this thing that feels so uniquely mine. I’m curious what your thoughts are about that, or what you would say to them? I just want to like talk about that for a second.

David: So, when you have students like that, that are going really deep and are really embodying like a process and methodology, that’s the medicine. Because they’re bringing their heart and their soul into their work. And you can’t sell medicine. It’s not possible, because medicine goes beyond the mind.

So, that’s where you need that method. The medicine sort of goes into the depth. And a deeper sometimes we go, the more profound that can be. And the method goes more linear, it shows the mind the steps and the processes, right? So, it’s like mind, medicine. And when you embody the medicine, well done. That means that you have found something that was your medicine, that you needed, and you truly transform that part of yourself. And now, you have a medicine and a map to your method.

So, what I like to ask my clients is, what is the front door? If you think of your method or methodology, as like a little healing home. And it’s like the coziest home the whole world. It’s so gorgeous, and has like the nicest walls, your favorite colors, beautiful flowers outside. And your process is inside the home. It’s like all of these different rooms that are beautifully decorated for whatever purpose they have.

But outside that front door, what is the one thing that you would put on the front door? What I see sometimes, is that we try to make the front door so big that it sort of reaches everyone. And I actually challenge my clients to make it as small as possible, for you to be able to connect with the right person. So, it’s a little bit like Alice in Wonderland type of door.

Lindsay: That’s funny. That’s exactly what I was picturing.

David: Maybe you were Alice in Wonderland in another lifetime, who knows?

Lindsay: Maybe. It’s possible.

David: And the same as we were talking about just before getting on this recording, if your product or your service or method was for sale in a supermarket, where would it be located? If you felt into it, if you walked into this supermarket, and these huge American humongous product lines everywhere, would it be like all the way at the back just down in some plastic?

Or would it be like your coach lab, like this exotic beautiful fruits with all these nutrients that you need to become a great coach? Or would it be like this amazing dessert that was just so fun and playful, that you just want to bring it to all your clients, all your friends; like, that’s your product, as you mentioned?

Or would it be something that is close to the checkout? Where you see this beautiful poster of yourself, and there’s one sentence of your product, but what would be on the poster? How would you be able to communicate, really quickly, like this is the outcome, this is the reward?

And I think it’s just a way for people to start really figuring out how to communicate something really profound, which is transformation. It’s not a lipstick. So, it’s like something really profound. Just go on Pinterest, create a little board, and then start pinning all of the images they want their clients to share with the world after they’ve gone through their experience.

So, you just fill it up with lots of positive, amazing, powerful scenery. Maybe it’s people being with family or traveling or enjoying themselves. And you just fill it with the emotions that you want people to feel when they’re going through your product.

And if you can anchor all of your marketing with those emotions, and you can focus on the visuals that you want your clients to be sharing after they’ve gone through your product and your process, you will have a rock-solid marketing plan.

Lindsay: And then, to just build on that, or maybe this is just a question for you, how you do this, or for them, either way. You can answer either way you want. So, they’ve done this piece and then they put it out into the world. And then, they maybe feel rejected because people are like, “I don’t think I want that thing.” That’s their interpretation of what’s happening.

How do you take care of yourself when that happens? Because I think we’ve all experienced that in some form; anyone that is an entrepreneur. Even if you’re not a coach, I feel like entrepreneurs, that’s just the thing that happens. We put things into the world. And sometimes people are like, “I don’t get it. I don’t want it. I don’t understand it.”

David: Yeah, and I think a lot of us really struggle, because we can put a lot of time into our free stuff. And then like, people are not even buying into the free stuff. And we’re like, “Why? I spent hours writing this one thing. Why you don’t like my baby?”

And then people are like, “I want to pay 35,000 for coaching with you.” I’m like, “Why? Why are you not reading this free thing that I made? Do you have to pay…?” So, it’s strange. And I think it’s a part of our journey. As well as growing, as community leaders. Because what I’ve seen with every single client that have failed on their launches, has been one missing quality.

And it’s been to listen to the people that are already there. And if we stopped trying to sort of push information on people, and we started having a dialogue… I have one student now doing this. And she just started like, “Okay, I’m going to ask 10 people this one question. I’m going to go directly and ask my previous students about this one question.” About micro researching and connecting and engaging as a community leader.

Because she wants the feedback, and she wants that information to become as great as possible. I truly believe we all can do this. We all have 100+ people on Facebook. We all have some previous clients, the people we’ve coached. We are able to connect with them and ask them lots of questions, so that we can make sure that our communication around our products are getting better.

Because when we have been in that kitchen, transformational kitchen, for so long… I like to think of it as like people who’ve been like in India, and they’ve been doing all of these courses. And they have 500 spices, like transformational spices. And then, they come with their little cup, and they start throwing it all in, like 50 different spices and different colors. And they’re like, “Don’t you see how amazing this is?” And people are like, “What are you making? That’s too much. That’s spicy. That is too much.” So, we just have to think, okay, maybe we have a little bit too much medicine. And we need to start making a little cupcake, so that people at least want to have a bite. And that goes back to that abundance cookie.

Like, how can you bake something that would make your process, so that you fall in love with your process, of marketing and being a coach? What can be fun to do every single day of your life? Like, literally, if you had to do it every single day. And don’t think about what anyone else is doing. Like, how can it be fun for you.

And that is how you will not only build a super nice community and campfire; you will make it really fun for yourself to sit around it. Otherwise, if you don’t like it, you will just like light a little match and run away, or create a big fire in the forest, because you’re trying to do a launch but you’re not able to sort of facilitate and hold the energy.

I really want my clients to build a little campfire where they want to sit first, and then invite just 10 people that they would love to be with. And that’s the irony now, when I have a mastermind. They were all sharing videos, every single day for three months. And they all loved each other. And I said, “Isn’t it ironic that you all love each other so much, sharing everything that’s happening, every single day. And if you all had done that outside, in social media, you would have had the same relationship with so many more people.” I don’t think this is complicated.

Lindsay: I love that. This is not complicated. All you have to do, is share your entire soul with the world. That’s what I just heard you say.

David: Yes. Lots of stuff you can throw on that campfire. You will have no inner/outer walls.

Lindsay: That’s so good. Okay, is there anything else that you are hoping we would get to today or talk about?

David: This was so amazing. It felt so comfortable. I love that we get to play like this, and feel so safe and seen and happy and loved. And any time spent with you, is just the best. So, thank you so much for having me.

Lindsay: You are welcome. I talk so much, to my clients, about… you kind of just touched on it actually, a minute ago. When you said like, build the campfire that you want to sit at, or however you said it. And I think that’s so important. And I even shared with you, before we started recording, that I’m working on, some of my work right now, is to figure out how to do webinars or master classes in a way that I love. That I’m like, “I can’t wait to show up for this thing.” Like, it feels so fun. And if people take just one thing away from this, I feel like that’s maybe the thing; just build the thing that you love, that you are excited to show up for every day. And it makes such a huge difference, I think, in every piece of your business.

David: Yeah, and a simple technique, just at the end, to be able to really find the campfire, is to really close your eyes and imagine yourself walking barefoot into this beautiful forest where you feel safe. And see that the sun is going down, and just see the flickering of the small campfire, and see the nine people that are sitting around it. And sit down there and feel the energy of those people. No matter who you see them as, feel the energy. Feel how they’re looking at you. Feel the conversation, how lighthearted it is. And from that little campfire experience, you can also pull out the energy that you want your community to manifest and to be. And it can be that simple.

But first, to be able to create any campfire, you have to feel the warmth, yourself, and feel safe around it. Otherwise, you’re going to put it out.

Lindsay: That is amazing. Thank you for that. Hopefully, everybody just takes five minutes, at least, to do that exercise today. That’s a good one. Thank you for sharing. Thank you so much for being on. This has been a blast. I love it. I love you. I’m so glad you’re here.

Tell them, for anyone listening, tell them where they can find you. If they’re like, “Wait, I need more of what he’s talking about.” Where can they find you? Tell them all the places.

David: Yeah, don’t go and follow me on Facebook, because I have 200,000 followers. That was when we were like doing the Facebook thing. They’re real followers. But we were like promoting all these different pages, like 10 years ago. And then, I ended up with this Christian, racy tribe that every time I cheer about being gay, people are like, “Burn in hell!”. So, I was like, “Great.”

Lindsay: So, don’t go find that. You know this is like now the first place everyone is going, right? They’re like, “Wait, I needed to see what’s happening over there.”

David: It’s just the worst. I had to block so many people that said I have to burn in hell. But follow me on Instagram. It’s not many people there. But I just love the connection that I have with people on Instagram. That’s just like, my people.

And my website is DavidVox.com. And I actually have a webinar coming up, at the 19th of July. My OP is just helping me do everything, because I’m not the best in tech. But I’m going to have a little free masterclass then, because I just love connecting and teaching a little bit more about magical marketing.

Lindsay: I love it. So, they can find it on your website. And we’ll put all of this in the show notes, and then they can find you on Instagram. Is it just your name?

David: Yeah, just David Vox; keeping it very simple.

Lindsay: Okay, me too. I’m just like, “Oh, it’s very creative.” It’s @LindsayDotzlaf. Or LindsayDotzlafCoaching.com. That’s what we’re working with here. All right. Thank you. Thank you. This was amazing. It’s going to be so useful for so many people. And I’m so glad you agreed to do this.

David: Oh, I just love you so much.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Mastering Coaching Skills. If you want to learn more about my work, come visit me at LindsayDotzlafCoaching.com. See you next week.